No one has said anything close to saying that you or anyone is a moron. It's quite simple. the reasons being given for why Carter is a logical choice to be traded, isn't logical at all. And we can debate that if you'd like. You made the comment that some people don't get it. I simply replied that we can find out who get's it and who doesn't.
- MJL

Logically speaking... if Timonen and Briere and Hartnell and co refuse to waive NTC's, who do the flyers move?

Internets
- eayost

Serious business?

Serious business?
- BulliesPhan87

apparently

Logically speaking... if Timonen and Briere and Hartnell and co refuse to waive NTC's, who do the flyers move?
- jak521

Meszaros, Coburn and/or Carle

Logically speaking... if Timonen and Briere and Hartnell and co refuse to waive NTC's, who do the flyers move?
- jak521

Well, we have a couple of fine $3m defensemen that would likely get good value in a trade. Considering the depth at that position, I think Carle or Coburn would be wise to move.

Logically speaking, that is

Meszaros, Coburn and/or Carle
- marooninja

So you trade away 2 young defensmen, get dramatically older on defense, and still dont manage to come out + in cap space? Unless both Carle and Mezzy go for only picks and prospect. Then you have guys like Marshall or Bartulis playing top 4 minutes. To me, that isnt the logical way to go.

Well, we have a couple of fine $3m defensemen that would likely get good value in a trade. Considering the depth at that position, I think Carle or Coburn would be wise to move.

Logically speaking, that is
- BulliesPhan87

I dont see the logic in that personally... We trade away a solid young defenseman who has a pretty decent cap hit, for what? Whatever it is, it will need to clear cap space, because ultimately thats why we are making the move in the first place. And then we fill that spot with whom? Is Bart ready to take over the role of Coburn or Carle. Me thinks not

So you trade away 2 young defensmen, get dramatically older on defense, and still dont manage to come out + in cap space? Unless both Carle and Mezzy go for only picks and prospect. Then you have guys like Marshall or Bartulis playing top 4 minutes. To me, that isnt the logical way to go.
- jak521

I think they could make it work just by trading away one of the defenseman. Still leaves you with a solid top-4 and opens up a spot for one of the youngsters. And you keep Carter and Giroux.

I believe the players will waive the NTC if asked. The player just wants some control about not ending up in a place like FLA or EDM. The main focus is not so much what the return will be for a high priced free agent, but the cap room that is gained.

Once high priced players are off the books like Kimmo or Briere, they will be replaced by the "new" high priced players on the roster like a Giroux, Carter, Leino, or JVR down the road. This is the cyclical ramifications of a salary cap world.

No one has said anything close to saying that you or anyone is a moron. It's quite simple. the reasons being given for why Carter is a logical choice to be traded, isn't logical at all. And we can debate that if you'd like. You made the comment that some people don't get it. I simply replied that we can find out who get's it and who doesn't.
- MJL

And the real point is, we can't. Because everyone gets it. They just disagree about it. Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't make them wrong.

I think they could make it work just by trading away one of the defenseman. Still leaves you with a solid top-4 and opens up a spot for one of the youngsters. And you keep Carter and Giroux.
- marooninja

Ok lets go with that for just poops and giggles.


Say Carter gets 6.5 mil but it is more then possible for a team to try to win him over with an offer that is higher...
If Giroux has a halfway decent season he is looking at atleast 3 mil, more likely 3.5 if he has a good season so we will say 3.3.

So Carter gets a raise of 1.5 and Giroux 2.8... thats 4.3 mill

We would still need to sign a goalie, another d-man, and what, 5 forwards?

I dont see the logic in that personally... We trade away a solid young defenseman who has a pretty decent cap hit, for what? Whatever it is, it will need to clear cap space, because ultimately thats why we are making the move in the first place. And then we fill that spot with whom? Is Bart ready to take over the role of Coburn or Carle. Me thinks not
- jak521

You don't think it's possible to trade one of the two, plug in Meszaros, and put Bartulis in the third pairing?

You don't think it's possible to trade one of the two, plug in Meszaros, and put Bartulis in the third pairing?
- BulliesPhan87

We're talking about after this season, right? So if Bart plays a decent number of minutes and shows he's ready and Meszaros returns to his Sens form, I do think it's possible.

Ok lets go with that for just poops and giggles.


Say Carter gets 6.5 mil but it is more then possible for a team to try to win him over with an offer that is higher...
If Giroux has a halfway decent season he is looking at atleast 3 mil, more likely 3.5 if he has a good season so we will say 3.3.

So Carter gets a raise of 1.5 and Giroux 2.8... thats 4.3 mill

We would still need to sign a goalie, another d-man, and what, 5 forwards?
- jak521

With Carter at $6.5 and Giroux at $3.5, minus Meszaros' $4 and Walker's $1.7; they still have about $9 mil (if the cap were to stay the same) to sign three forwards and a goalie.

Ok lets go with that for just poops and giggles.


Say Carter gets 6.5 mil but it is more then possible for a team to try to win him over with an offer that is higher...
If Giroux has a halfway decent season he is looking at atleast 3 mil, more likely 3.5 if he has a good season so we will say 3.3.

So Carter gets a raise of 1.5 and Giroux 2.8... thats 4.3 mill

We would still need to sign a goalie, another d-man, and what, 5 forwards?
- jak521

Five forwards? Why do we need to run 14 forwards?
We have quite a few defensemen. t's nice having five top four guys, but not entirely necessary.
Don't we have three solid goalie prospects set to hit the pipes sometime in the next year or so?

We're talking about after this season, right? So if Bart plays a decent number of minutes and shows he's ready and Meszaros returns to his Sens form, I do think it's possible.
- bodiva88

After this season, correct. We're actually taking a little bit right now to plan how we'll tear each other's throats out in a year

We should also consider two years down the line, when we will not have the Carter issue to kill each other over (whether he wears orange or not, unless he signs a one year deal)

You don't think it's possible to trade one of the two, plug in Meszaros, and put Bartulis in the third pairing?
- BulliesPhan87

I think it is more then possible, but it still would make it very hard to replace the other spots. Then what happens is you try to sign Carter and Giroux.. however, with their salary raises trading a defenseman still isnt enough to cancel the cap between the two.. so in reality you lose a player from your team, and still lose cap space. On top of that we will need to sign a goalie, a reserve d-man, unless we are confident that Marshall is ready for an extended stay in the NHL, and what, 5 forwards? I think that will be verrry verry hard to do without either

A) Trading a big contract (timonen, or briere)
B) Trading Carter.

Do i necessarily want to do either of those? No, but sometimes things need to be done in order to keep the team competitive. I would hate to put all of our eggs in our basket to keep Carter, and then not be able to fill out a competitive roster below our top 2 lines.

Five forwards? Why do we need to run 14 forwards?
We have quite a few defensemen. t's nice having five top four guys, but not entirely necessary.
Don't we have three solid goalie prospects set to hit the pipes sometime in the next year or so?
- BulliesPhan87

We have 6 forwards (not counting Cote) who are FA's after next season. We have 13 signed (not counting Cote) for next season.

As for the defense, i agree. However, unless we drastically improve our goaltending issues, we are gonna need 3 completely reliable d-pairs. Especially with guys like Timonen, and Prongers getting older.

With regards to goaltending, the emphasis is definitely in the word prospect. We have 3 young goalies who have never played a game in the NHL, and we are already penciling them in as starters for 2 season from now?
Also, we are not even sure Leighton is gonna work THIS season , let alone the following year..

Idk, just doesnt make me feel to fuzzy inside.

We're talking about after this season, right? So if Bart plays a decent number of minutes and shows he's ready and Meszaros returns to his Sens form, I do think it's possible.
- bodiva88

definitely possible, but still wouldnt make up the cap needed to sign both Carter and Giroux. Would it help? Yes, most definitely, however, we would be losing a BIG part of our defense, and while i do think Bart is a serviceable d-man, looking at it now that is a big downgrade defensively. Again, 2 years from now we could have Bobby Ryan and Ziggy Palffy

ASF speaks...

http://www.delcotimes.com...c4cf8723d358287014643.txt

We have 6 forwards (not counting Cote) who are FA's after next season. We have 13 signed (not counting Cote) for next season.

As for the defense, i agree. However, unless we drastically improve our goaltending issues, we are gonna need 3 completely reliable d-pairs. Especially with guys like Timonen, and Prongers getting older.

With regards to goaltending, the emphasis is definitely in the word prospect. We have 3 young goalies who have never played a game in the NHL, and we are already penciling them in as starters for 2 season from now?
Also, we are not even sure Leighton is gonna work THIS season , let alone the following year..

Idk, just doesnt make me feel to fuzzy inside.
- jak521

The Flyers have seven forwards under contract for 2011-2012, after Carter and Giroux we'd need three for the full twelve. If depth is needed I still think Nodl and Kalinski have looked decent. Nodl was good enough to be a small factor in the Boston series. Either way, I think three forwards is doable with the estimated $9mil (I forget who threw that number out).

The defense is spoken for. There's rumblings of Timmo retiring, I'll believe it when it's more than whispers on the internet. For now the defense is solid, we could even afford to send a body out in a trade if needed.


Then comes the never ending discussion of goaltending:

For goaltending, we have to get a goalie somewhere. No matter what there's a big risk involved. If we go to the market, who's to say the guy we get earns his overstated free agent paycheck? We could end up with a Huet for all we know. As far as prospects go, there is a real risk involved, sure. However, the cost to take that risk is literally zero, considering we already have these players. If they don't pan out, the third option will remain available.

the third option, of course, is to trade. I need not say the simple philosphy, but I will: You trade if it makes your team better. Nobody in the "kee Carter" camp is saying to refuse if we're offered Ryan Miller for the guy. However, unless we're getting a fair deal there's no reason to deal fo a goalie with three prospects already fighting for the blue paint.

Logically speaking... if Timonen and Briere and Hartnell and co refuse to waive NTC's, who do the flyers move?
- jak521

Logically speaking, a whole host of players that would be more logical to trade than Carter. Including Giroux, Carle, Coburn, Meszaros to name a few.

So you trade away 2 young defensmen, get dramatically older on defense, and still dont manage to come out + in cap space? Unless both Carle and Mezzy go for only picks and prospect. Then you have guys like Marshall or Bartulis playing top 4 minutes. To me, that isnt the logical way to go.
- jak521

After a full season of seeing it together, trading one of the defenseman is absolutely logical. And why don't they come out on the + side of the cap?

And the real point is, we can't. Because everyone gets it. They just disagree about it. Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't make them wrong.
- bodiva88

I didn't say anyone was wrong!

I dont see the logic in that personally... We trade away a solid young defenseman who has a pretty decent cap hit, for what? Whatever it is, it will need to clear cap space, because ultimately thats why we are making the move in the first place. And then we fill that spot with whom? Is Bart ready to take over the role of Coburn or Carle. Me thinks not
- jak521

Bartulis doesn't need to step in and replace Coburn or Carle. And how do you know that after another year of development, that Bartulis isn't ready to step in and be a full time NHL defenseman?