dave, it's a more common expression than you may realize..



*runs away*
- Crimsoninja

dave, it's a more common expression than you may realize..



*runs away*
- Crimsoninja

ya but i JUST said it like YESTERDAY

keep running, little man. keep running.

I dont doubt there were calls, but the money sure wasn't there.

Hes not the best player. He is not worth 7M.
- BradTardforGM

Absolutely the money was there. He turned down 100M from Atlanta to stay there.

I don't think he's the best player either. And I wouldn't committ to a long term deal with him either.

You're assuming that the decisions Chicago made will make them a better team over the next couple seasons (moving 3 guys versus moving 1 guy), but no one knows until it happens. The possibility exists that they just messed up.
- eayost

I'm not assuming anything. I just pointed out what they did in the same situation. And they did the right thing.

You asked me to explain i did. How is it reality and fantasy at the same time?
- jak521

I didn't say it was reality and fantasy at the same time.

It's obviously over your head.

Thats exactly what i asked you.
- jak521

My question was rhetorical. The answer is obvious.

Please copy and paste the post where i said Chi should have traded Towes or Kane. I would love for you to do that. They both have long term deals at tolerable cap hits. Carter is an upcoming RFA, who is bound to get 7 mil right? Completely different situations... Also while you are at it, find the post where i said that the flyers SHOULD trade Carter.


Im not talking about how long they have been with the team, if that were the case Gagne would still be here.

Well considering Towes is better then Carter
Also, Chicago went all in for one reason.. to win a cup. They did that, and now are going to feel the effects of it.

As of right now they have 9 forwards and 2 mil in cap space. Thats before coming to terms with Niemi.

Again, if I could get a top 6 forward, a 1st and 2nd and a top prospect, i would consider moving Carter.

I personally think that if we kept Carle, signed Giroux and one of Zherdev/Leino, added the top 6 winger from Carter, as well as the prospect and picks, we would not only be the better team that season, but potentially in a better position in the future.

Just an opinion.
- jak521

Please copy and paste where I said that you said Chicago should have traded Toews or Kane. I would love for you to do that.
It's not a completely different situation. It's exactly the same. When Chicago was faced with the upcoming RFA status of Toews and Kane, they resigned them. Knowing full well what might happen in the future. They were in the same position last year with Kane and Toews that the Flyers are in now with Carter. And who knows if he's going to get 7M. Which would also be tolerable. I've already tried to explain to ou the difference in the deals, with Carter coming up on his UFA years, and Toews and Kane signing their first deal after their Entry Level deals, for a higher Cap hit than Carters. But that obviously didn't sink in.
You've suggested trading Carter many times if his Cap hit is too high in your opinion, in order to resign lesser players.

As far as Towes being better than Carter. Whe had that discussion recently. Where you drastically exaggerated the difference and then backpedaled feverishly.

So the Flyers aren't going all in to win a Cup? How is that different? And Chicago didn't resign Toews and Kane to go all in to win a Cup. And if Chicago didn't have a contending team, they wouldn't have resigned Kane and Toews? They resigned them because they are the core of thier franchise. That's a no brainer.
Same way it is for the Flyers to keep the core of thier franchise. You place a higher priority to keeping a Leino or a Zherdev than you do a Carter. Makes no sense.

You make a trade for one reason. To make your team better. Show me a trade of Carter that makes the team better, and I'm in.

You haven't done that.

Please copy and paste where I said that you said Chicago should have traded Toews or Kane. I would love for you to do that.
It's not a completely different situation. It's exactly the same. When Chicago was faced with the upcoming RFA status of Toews and Kane, they resigned them. Knowing full well what might happen in the future. They were in the same position last year with Kane and Toews that the Flyers are in now with Carter. And who knows if he's going to get 7M. Which would also be tolerable. I've already tried to explain to ou the difference in the deals, with Carter coming up on his UFA years, and Toews and Kane signing their first deal after their Entry Level deals, for a higher Cap hit than Carters. But that obviously didn't sink in.
You've suggested trading Carter many times if his Cap hit is too high in your opinion, in order to resign lesser players.

As far as Towes being better than Carter. Whe had that discussion recently. Where you drastically exaggerated the difference and then backpedaled feverishly.

So the Flyers aren't going all in to win a Cup? How is that different? And Chicago didn't resign Toews and Kane to go all in to win a Cup. And if Chicago didn't have a contending team, they wouldn't have resigned Kane and Toews? They resigned them because they are the core of thier franchise. That's a no brainer.
Same way it is for the Flyers to keep the core of thier franchise. You place a higher priority to keeping a Leino or a Zherdev than you do a Carter. Makes no sense.

You make a trade for one reason. To make your team better. Show me a trade of Carter that makes the team better, and I'm in.

You haven't done that.
- MJL

Please copy and paste the post where i said Chi should have traded Towes or Kane. I would love for you to do that. They both have long term deals at tolerable cap hits. Carter is an upcoming RFA, who is bound to get 7 mil right? Completely different situations... Also while you are at it, find the post where i said that the flyers SHOULD trade Carter.


why are so afraid to answer questions posed to you? Answer Gushers question and I am sure he will respond in kind

Please copy and paste where I said that you said Chicago should have traded Toews or Kane. I would love for you to do that.
It's not a completely different situation. It's exactly the same. When Chicago was faced with the upcoming RFA status of Toews and Kane, they resigned them. Knowing full well what might happen in the future. They were in the same position last year with Kane and Toews that the Flyers are in now with Carter. And who knows if he's going to get 7M. Which would also be tolerable. I've already tried to explain to ou the difference in the deals, with Carter coming up on his UFA years, and Toews and Kane signing their first deal after their Entry Level deals, for a higher Cap hit than Carters. But that obviously didn't sink in.
You've suggested trading Carter many times if his Cap hit is too high in your opinion, in order to resign lesser players.

As far as Towes being better than Carter. Whe had that discussion recently. Where you drastically exaggerated the difference and then backpedaled feverishly.

So the Flyers aren't going all in to win a Cup? How is that different? And Chicago didn't resign Toews and Kane to go all in to win a Cup. And if Chicago didn't have a contending team, they wouldn't have resigned Kane and Toews? They resigned them because they are the core of thier franchise. That's a no brainer.
Same way it is for the Flyers to keep the core of thier franchise. You place a higher priority to keeping a Leino or a Zherdev than you do a Carter. Makes no sense.

You make a trade for one reason. To make your team better. Show me a trade of Carter that makes the team better, and I'm in.

You haven't done that.
- MJL

ok you can thank me later

You said that Chicago should have traded Toews or Kane.
- MJL

ok you can thank me later
- 2Real

Nice try 2Real. No dice!

I'm not assuming anything. I just pointed out what they did in the same situation. And they did the right thing.
- MJL

You say they did the right thing, but there are no facts to support that claim until games and seasons are played.

You say they did the right thing, but there are no facts to support that claim until games and seasons are played.
- eayost

Maybe in your mind. But in my mind keeping their two young star level players who are 21 and 22, was the right thing to do.

Maybe in your mind. But in my mind keeping their two young star level players who are 21 and 22, was the right thing to do.
- MJL

lets see how that works out for the upcoming season. They might have to pull a calgary flames and ice a team with 15 skaters

Maybe in your mind. But in my mind keeping their two young star level players who are 21 and 22, was the right thing to do.
- MJL

I never stated my opinion on the matter. I agree with yours. It may or may not work out as they planned though.

I never stated my opinion on the matter. I agree with yours. It may or may not work out as they planned though.
- eayost

How many teams a year, have it work out as they planned? If you get my drift.

So if Carter signs for 7M and Giroux at 3.5M this is your lineup with Powe back at this years money:

Briere ($6.500m) / Richards ($5.750m) / JVR ($1.654m)
Hartnell ($4.200m) / Carter ($7.000m) / Giroux ($3.500m)
Laperriere ($1.166m) / Betts ($0.700m) / Nodl ($0.850m)
/ Darroll Powe ($0.725m) / Jody Shelley ($1.100m)

DEFENSEMEN
Timonen ($6.333m) / Pronger ($4.921m)
Meszaros ($4.000m) / Walker ($1.700m)
Coburn ($3.200m) / Bartulis ($0.600m)
Carle ($3.437m)

Leighton ($1.550m) /Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

375K of cap space left and short a forward. You want to talk about having two grinder lines, this is it.

So you can move Coburn or Carle and have enough to likely sign Leino and another guy that should push Shelley out of the line-up and maybe have 500K in cap space.
Problem with that is you now would have bartulis and Walker as the final pair and no money to upgrade the position. I'm not terribly comfortable with that final pair and an aging Kimo and Pronger to go with Leighton

So if Carter signs for 7M and Giroux at 3.5M this is your lineup with Powe back at this years money:

Briere ($6.500m) / Richards ($5.750m) / JVR ($1.654m)
Hartnell ($4.200m) / Carter ($7.000m) / Giroux ($3.500m)
Laperriere ($1.166m) / Betts ($0.700m) / Nodl ($0.850m)
/ Darroll Powe ($0.725m) / Jody Shelley ($1.100m)

DEFENSEMEN
Timonen ($6.333m) / Pronger ($4.921m)
Meszaros ($4.000m) / Walker ($1.700m)
Coburn ($3.200m) / Bartulis ($0.600m)
Carle ($3.437m)

Leighton ($1.550m) /Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

375K of cap space left and short a forward. You want to talk about having two grinder lines, this is it.

So you can move Coburn or Carle and have enough to likely sign Leino and another guy that should push Shelley out of the line-up and maybe have 500K in cap space.
Problem with that is you now would have bartulis and Walker as the final pair and no money to upgrade the position. I'm not terribly comfortable with that final pair and an aging Kimo and Pronger to go with Leighton
- nails

you have to much time on your hands -- maybe your should start working on T4

Or, you could have this team if Carter is moved:



Carcillo ($1.300m) / Richards ($5.750m) / Zherdev ($3.000m)
Hartnell ($4.200m) / Briere ($6.500m) / Leino ($2.500m)
Laperriere ($1.166m) / Giroux ($3.500m) / J V R ($1.654m)
Shelley ($1.100m) / Betts ($0.700m) / Powe ($0.900m)

DEFENSEMEN
Timonen ($6.333m) / Pronger ($4.921m)
Meszaros ($4.000m) /Carle ($3.437m)
Coburn ($3.200m) / Walker ($1.700m)
Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Leighton ($1.550m) /Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

1.3M in cap space

and this is assuming you just let Carter walk and get compensation picks.
If you trade him instead, you likely get a roster forward that bumps Shelley.

this is a better TEAM than they other option, and last I checked, better TEAMS win cups, not better individual talents.

I never want to move young talent, but if keeping young talent means jeopardizing the ability of the franchise to ice a strong TEAM then the young talent must go.

you have to much time on your hands -- maybe your should start working on T4
- lukin

30 minute commute to work each day leaves plenty of time to think.
took all of 30 minutes to put this together.

there is never a chance of T4

Or, you could have this team if Carter is moved:



Carcillo ($1.300m) / Richards ($5.750m) / Zherdev ($3.000m)
Hartnell ($4.200m) / Briere ($6.500m) / Leino ($2.500m)
Laperriere ($1.166m) / Giroux ($3.500m) / J V R ($1.654m)
Shelley ($1.100m) / Betts ($0.700m) / Powe ($0.900m)

DEFENSEMEN
Timonen ($6.333m) / Pronger ($4.921m)
Meszaros ($4.000m) /Carle ($3.437m)
Coburn ($3.200m) / Walker ($1.700m)
Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Leighton ($1.550m) /Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

1.3M in cap space

and this is assuming you just let Carter walk and get compensation picks.
If you trade him instead, you likely get a roster forward that bumps Shelley.

this is a better TEAM than they other option, and last I checked, better TEAMS win cups, not better individual talents.

I never want to move young talent, but if keeping young talent means jeopardizing the ability of the franchise to ice a strong TEAM then the young talent must go.
- nails

Never going to happen -- Briere and a 6th to the caps for knuble and nylander

So if Carter signs for 7M and Giroux at 3.5M this is your lineup with Powe back at this years money:

Briere ($6.500m) / Richards ($5.750m) / JVR ($1.654m)
Hartnell ($4.200m) / Carter ($7.000m) / Giroux ($3.500m)
Laperriere ($1.166m) / Betts ($0.700m) / Nodl ($0.850m)
/ Darroll Powe ($0.725m) / Jody Shelley ($1.100m)

DEFENSEMEN
Timonen ($6.333m) / Pronger ($4.921m)
Meszaros ($4.000m) / Walker ($1.700m)
Coburn ($3.200m) / Bartulis ($0.600m)
Carle ($3.437m)

Leighton ($1.550m) /Bobrovsky ($1.750m)

375K of cap space left and short a forward. You want to talk about having two grinder lines, this is it.

So you can move Coburn or Carle and have enough to likely sign Leino and another guy that should push Shelley out of the line-up and maybe have 500K in cap space.
Problem with that is you now would have bartulis and Walker as the final pair and no money to upgrade the position. I'm not terribly comfortable with that final pair and an aging Kimo and Pronger to go with Leighton
- nails

There is a whole host of moves that could be made. Look at the difference between last year and this. And is the Cap going to go up?

30 minute commute to work each day leaves plenty of time to think.
took all of 30 minutes to put this together.

there is never a chance of T4
- nails

It would seem to me that there is a less chance of you thinking then the possibility of a T4

I mean did you really think the last 2 times?

this is a better TEAM than they other option, and last I checked, better TEAMS win cups, not better individual talents.

I never want to move young talent, but if keeping young talent means jeopardizing the ability of the franchise to ice a strong TEAM then the young talent must go.
- nails

You think it's a better team. There's no other options than to trade youth? There's no other options for the lineup then the one's you propose?

There is a whole host of moves that could be made. Look at the difference between last year and this. And is the Cap going to go up?
- MJL

PAst performace dictates future expectations, no? Werent you saying 2 years ago the cap was going down, and it did not?


Just askin hockey questions

You think it's a better team. There's no other options than to trade youth? There's no other options for the lineup then the one's you propose?
- MJL

when is "youth" not youth anymore? How many years in the NHL? How old? Who decides that a player is no lnger a "young" player? Is it you? Is there a table to consult? Wikipedia? How will we know if a "young" player is a bust, or if he is still "young"?