Giroux's play was lacking during the regular season a lot of the time too, remember. I can't count how many times I watched him try to Forsberg his way to the net and put one (or more) too many moves on and end up turning the puck over. He had just as many uninspiring moments as his linemates.
- BulliesPhan87

That's tough to say when he played with Asham and JVR/Carcillo for a majority of the regular season.

IMO, Turris left college hockey too soon. His sole reason for playing Junior A rather than the WHL was to go to college in the US and play NCAA hockey on a scholarship. Without even a full collegiate season, next thing you know, he's a pro. The extremely steep jump up in competition level has thus far been tough to handle.

In a similar vein, I am convinced to this day that Dainius Zubrus would have been a much more productive offensive player at the NHL level had the Flyers not rushed him from Junior A hockey in Ontario (he had been in a dispute with the QMJHL team that held his rights) directly to the NHL at age 18.

I am all for most teenage players (with rare exceptions) continuing their development in junior hockey or Europe, playing in the WJC and turning pro at age 20 or 21.
- bmeltzer

Thanks for the insight Bill. Zubrus is one of the first flyers prospects that i can really remember being excited about.. thanks to my older brother.. I was only 10. I cant remember to be exact, but didnt his size play into the idea of him coming straight to the NHL. He was a pretty big 18 year old if i remember correctly.

That's tough to say when he played with Asham and JVR/Carcillo for a majority of the regular season.
- lindros8888

I'm actually specifically speaking of aspects of his game that were not influenced by his linemates. I understand the impact they have, but there hi personal performance was pretty bland for a lot of the season.

I say this as a huge fan of the kid.

That's tough to say when he played with Asham and JVR/Carcillo for a majority of the regular season.
- lindros8888

Im not buying that.. he also played with guys like Richards, Carter, Gagne, and Briere.

I'm actually specifically speaking of aspects of his game that were not influenced by his linemates. I understand the impact they have, but there hi personal performance was pretty bland for a lot of the season.

I say this as a huge fan of the kid.
- BulliesPhan87

I agree, its impossible to argue the fact that he was a different player in the playoffs. In the regular season he seems to get caught up in the whole "just another game" tempo. He had some really good regular season games, but he really turns in on in the playoffs.

Also, last season he seemed to be trying way to much. If he were to start shooting the puck a bit more, i think it would help him out immensely, as he is pretty predictable as to what he is going to do. (PASS)

Im not buying that.. he also played with guys like Richards, Carter, Gagne, and Briere.
- jak521

Really... He didn't play with them as much as you think.

Thanks for the insight Bill. Zubrus is one of the first flyers prospects that i can really remember being excited about.. thanks to my older brother.. I was only 10. I cant remember to be exact, but didnt his size play into the idea of him coming straight to the NHL. He was a pretty big 18 year old if i remember correctly.
- jak521

Yes, he was already physically mature, and, at the Flyers summer camp, was like a man against boys. In the preseason, he scored an OT game winner against John Vanbiesbrouck on a reverse spin-a-rama that caught Beezer totally offguard. He had massive raw offensive potential, but only tapped into a small fraction of it because, within the next few months, he went from the Pembroke Lumber Kings to playing against NHL opponents.

Yes, he was already physically mature, and, at the Flyers summer camp, was like a man against boys. In the preseason, he scored an OT game winner against John Vanbiesbrouck on a reverse spin-a-rama that caught Beezer totally offguard. He had massive raw offensive potential, but only tapped into a small fraction of it because, within the next few months, he went from the Pembroke Lumber Kings to playing against NHL opponents.
- bmeltzer

Thats my only fear with JVR. He looked so dynamic to start the season, then really hit a wall. I hope it was just the fact that he had never played against such a high level of competition over the course of a long season.

He also showed glimpses of what he is capable of, out side of the first 2-3 months of the season. One that stands out the most was the game against the Devils in the playoffs, where he was easily the best player on the ice (for either team). Pronger and Carter lauded his play.. and Richie i believe said it was inspiring.

I agree, its impossible to argue the fact that he was a different player in the playoffs. In the regular season he seems to get caught up in the whole "just another game" tempo. He had some really good regular season games, but he really turns in on in the playoffs.

Also, last season he seemed to be trying way to much. If he were to start shooting the puck a bit more, i think it would help him out immensely, as he is pretty predictable as to what he is going to do. (PASS)
- jak521

Yes. Simply put, he was trying to make one or two too many moves. As the playoffs came, he seemed to cut down on the cutsie moves and added some finish. I didn't expect him to tear it up in the regular season, considering he played forty-something games in his first NHL season last year. If his playoffs performance is any indication he seems to have made some progress.

Really... He didn't play with them as much as you think.
- lindros8888

I'd agree, but I also think he played more with them than you think.

Lines will be mixed up all year I believe... I think what we'll see is some forward pairings that Lava will like to stick with and I hope they look like this

Richard-Carcillo
Briere-Leino
Giroux-JVR

the rest are interchangeable....but all these guys will have to get used to playing with each other. Powe is a great signing esp. with Betts gumby shoulder

Skip! How are you, sir?
- marooninja

Dude(?)! I am well. Enjoying married life, the new house, and the summer. Waiting impatiently for our honeymoon (South Carolina) which is in August due to scheduling with work. How've you been? Seems people are tacitly approving Homer's moves or hate them. Not much love. (I'm posting from my phone & cannot make paragraphs for some reason)

Dude(?)! I am well. Enjoying married life, the new house, and the summer. Waiting impatiently for our honeymoon (South Carolina) which is in August due to scheduling with work. How've you been? Seems people are tacitly approving Homer's moves or hate them. Not much love. (I'm posting from my phone & cannot make paragraphs for some reason)
- Flyskippy

Hey Skip, havent talked to you in ages, congrats on getting married. Hows M4?

Lines will be mixed up all year I believe... I think what we'll see is some forward pairings that Lava will like to stick with and I hope they look like this

Richard-Carcillo
Briere-Leino
Giroux-JVR

the rest are interchangeable....but all these guys will have to get used to playing with each other. Powe is a great signing esp. with Betts gumby shoulder
- Just5

the lines will always be in flux because of injuries and slumping players. it's inevitable. it's why i typically don't involved in the lengthy line combo threads. they change from shift to shift, period to period, and game to game.

the lines will always be in flux because of injuries and slumping players. it's inevitable. it's why i typically don't involved in the lengthy line combo threads. they change from shift to shift, period to period, and game to game.
- hammarby31

Ahh, the good old days with John Stevens heading the realm.

Thats my only fear with JVR. He looked so dynamic to start the season, then really hit a wall. I hope it was just the fact that he had never played against such a high level of competition over the course of a long season.

He also showed glimpses of what he is capable of, out side of the first 2-3 months of the season. One that stands out the most was the game against the Devils in the playoffs, where he was easily the best player on the ice (for either team). Pronger and Carter lauded his play.. and Richie i believe said it was inspiring.
- jak521

Flyers Top-10 Scoring Leaders Points/Shift:

Briere .032
Carter .031
Richards .028
Gagne .028
Giroux .026
JvR .025
Hartnell .025
Pronger .021
Timonen .016
Carle .015


PK-time drags some of these averages down (particularly for the defensemen, Richards and Carter), but the fact that JvR is pretty much in the same range as the others tells you that he's scoring at a pretty decent clip considering how little ice-time, particularly on the PP, he got this season.

Flyers Top-10 Scoring Leaders Points/Shift:

Briere .032
Carter .031
Richards .028
Gagne .028
Giroux .026
JvR .025
Hartnell .025
Pronger .021
Timonen .016
Carle .015


PK-time drags some of these averages down (particularly for the defensemen, Richards and Carter), but the fact that JvR is pretty much in the same range as the others tells you that he's scoring at a pretty decent clip considering how little ice-time, particularly on the PP, he got this season.
- Tomahawk

Thats a good point. I remember Bill Clement talking about the rookie leaders right around the olympic break, and he was talking about how guys like Duschene and Tavares were getting more minutes, and in better situations (PP), yet JVR had a higher point total then both of them.

If he was able to duplicate the first half of his season last year, and carry over into the second half he would have been near the team lead in points. He hit a wall and never managed to really establish anything down the stretch.

Ahh, the good old days with John Stevens heading the realm.
- jak521

except the benching of players who deserve it.

Thats a good point. I remember Bill Clement talking about the rookie leaders right around the olympic break, and he was talking about how guys like Duschene and Tavares were getting more minutes, and in better situations (PP), yet JVR had a higher point total then both of them.

If he was able to duplicate the first half of his season last year, and carry over into the second half he would have been near the team lead in points. He hit a wall and never managed to really establish anything down the stretch.
- jak521

a lot of rookies who find consistent/easy success that first year often hit the wall early and all season long in their second year. jvr doesn't fit into that category, and i'm anticipating a more even performance from him this year because it all just didn't fall into his lap last year. he went through the grind with nothing given to him and went all the way to the scf while staying healthy and playing a much higher number of games than previously in his amateur career. that was a roller coaster season for all of them filled with tremendous highs and lows, and i think he'll benefit from all of it next year, especially since lava will have the team from the start.

Hey Skip, havent talked to you in ages, congrats on getting married. Hows M4?
- jak521

Hi, jak, thanks. M4 is doing well. Getting adjusted to the new house & neighborhood. He made some friends @ Vacation Bible School last week, so that helps. How are you?

I know he's on a week leave but if he's still reading happy birthday to B-Rad

That's Bradleyc4

Woooooot
- Buts16

happy birthday to smugs

flat out? coatsey, is that you?
- hammarby31

(frank) you

Hi, jak, thanks. M4 is doing well. Getting adjusted to the new house & neighborhood. He made some friends @ Vacation Bible School last week, so that helps. How are you?
- Flyskippy

Doing well myself, glad to hear M4 is doing well. I assume spaghetti made a seamless transition?

I myself am looking for a new house as we speak. Not as fun as i had previously anticipated, and it looks like i am going to have to forgo season tickets for another year .

btw, we still don't have mods there. i only pop in and post occasionally now. same little core is still plugging along. i do miss the massive flame wars of the late 90s and early 00s. what fun.
- hammarby31

That was a blast. I haven't been there in ages

Doing well myself, glad to hear M4 is doing well. I assume spaghetti made a seamless transition?

I myself am looking for a new house as we speak. Not as fun as i had previously anticipated, and it looks like i am going to have to forgo season tickets for another year .
- jak521

Hey, at least the beers are dramatically cheaper out here in TV land