OK, this is in response to a few post I have read.

-The Flyers are absolutely still a good team. To say that they're not is being stubborn and ignoring the talent on hand.

-I think both trades were fair trades. Of course I would have liked to have gotten more, in BOTH trades. I want to see the Flyers get the best of every deal. In each case, the return was fair.

-Voracek is a developing young player. He's going to have his ups and downs. To dismiss him out of hand is being blind to his talent and what he has done so far in his career.

-As far as the media stuff goes, it was a factor. But nowhere near as much of one as the inconsistent results.
- Jsaquella

I think they go hand-in-hand considering the radical nature of the changes.

Arguably... The Flyers dealt Carter and Richards and got (in the grand scheme of things) the 8th pick, a 2nd rounder, a 3rd rounder, Voracek, Schenn, Simmonds, Leino, Bryzgalov.They also have the cap room to add more lesser players, or even upgrade the 6th and 7th d-men.

All in all, even though it is an extremely bittersweet deal, the team once again showed us (the fans) that they mean business. They want to win the cup, and will trade ANYBODY to do so.

This is now Giroux's team with JvR by his side....
- jak521

You forgot to include the picks that went to PHX for Bryz.

Those were the kind of players they got, especially in the Richards deal. Both Schenn and Simmonds love to bang.
- Jsaquella

Richards and Carter do, too.

Oh, that's not what you meant...

Those were the kind of players they got, especially in the Richards deal. Both Schenn and Simmonds love to bang.
- Jsaquella

So did Carter and Richards

Leight - damn you #23

So did Carter and Richards
- Duran76

Leight.

Arguably... The Flyers dealt Carter and Richards and got (in the grand scheme of things) the 8th pick, a 2nd rounder, a 3rd rounder, Voracek, Schenn, Simmonds, Leino, Bryzgalov.

They also have the cap room to add more lesser players, or even upgrade the 6th and 7th d-men.

All in all, even though it is an extremely bittersweet deal, the team once again showed us (the fans) that they mean business. They want to win the cup, and will trade ANYBODY to do so.

This is now Giroux's team with JvR by his side....
- jak521

It IS bittersweet. I'm excited and content with the return. They didn't rob anybody, nor do I feel they got robbed. They got a fair return on two assets. Would have been happier to get more, as we all would have been.

To put it another way, yesterday I saw 2 of my 3 favorite players traded away from the team I root for. I'm not doing cartwheels, but I am excited for the future, both near term and long term

Who??

Sean Odonnell?
- jak521

Everyone knows that Sodes is his nickname.

What Holmgren did was not to simply create salary cap room. One does not trade the faces of his franchise in order to lock up a new goalie. The Flyers could have kept both of the players they traded away yesterday afteroon and signed Ilya Bryzgalov to the same contract and made the numbers work by moving other players.

He chose to change not just the face of his hockey club, but also it's essence.

Mike Richards and Jeff Carter were the face of the Flyers franchise. They were the twin pillars that were the crux of the team's drive to a championship. Veterans like Danny Briere and Kimmo Timonen were added to help them navigate the waters to the Stanley Cup.

Along the way, a kid from tiny Hearst, Ontario came along and wrested the role of being the team's franchise player out of the hands of Richards and Carter. Make no mistake, Claude Giroux is the franchise now.

Chris Pronger will get his share of the blame, and much will be made about his relationship with Richards. It's likely Pronger will replace Richards as the Flyers captain, and people will say that his relationship with Richards was untenable and couldn't be fixed so Richards was dealt.

I won't deny that there were issues. However to point to those issues now and say they were the end all, be all of the moves made yesterday is really stupid. The Flyers didn't trade Richards or Carter because they partied too heartily. They didn't trade Richards or Carter because they weren't good with the media. They traded them for a multitude of factors.

The Flyers have been a team that has been a Jeckyll and Hyde group since they rose from the ashes of the 2006-07 death march. Flyers fans have long joked about the team flipping the switch and going from the gang that couldn't shoot straight to SEAL Team 6.

They are the team with the 3rd highest playoff win total in the past 4 years. But they're also a team that crept into the playoffs in the last couple of days of the season in 2 out of the last 3 years. The same team that went to the 2010 Stanley Cup Final was also the team that needed a shootout win to even make the playoffs that year.

The local media had fun taking their potshots at the Flyers younger players that lived in Old City Philadelphia and lived lives with active social careers. Even yesterday, as Carter and Richards were dealt, several writers couldn't resist the urge to drop in a shot as the pair left town.

The media was not why the Flyers parted way with Richards and Carter yesterday, but the media won no respect in the way they covered the team. One hopes that Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds and Jake Voracek follow the lead of guys like Giroux, Briere and Pronger and play the game with the media, lest they get slammed for not being a good interview.

But, I digress. More than making cap room, the Flyers yesterday sent a message. That message wasn't to curtail the social life, or even to play nice with the media. The message was that flipping the switch was no longer a practical or workable situation. The message was sent loud and clear and there's no uncertainty about it.

The Flyers got a fair return yesterday for two guys they had been building around. They're not starting over or rebuilding. They are simply saying that nobody is safe if they can bring their A game on every single night.
- Jsaquella

Jsaq, I have been on this site for a few years now, but i honestly think this is the best post i have read to date....

GREAT POST!!!!!

I think they go hand-in-hand considering the radical nature of the changes.
- isaiah520

I don't. Had the Flyers not been such a streaky team, Richards could have been telling Carchidi and Panaccio daily to GFY and they wouldn't have cared.

But when you don't play consistently, all bets are off.

Well Pierre doesn't like him, Flyers should trade him for some Timbits and a small coffee.

Voracek played on some pretty bad Columbus teams and put up more than respectable numbers. He's only 21 yrs old, perhaps a move to a real hockey city could redirect his focus is that not possible?
- PLindbergh31

possibilities for a 35-40 goal guy is weak, imo.

I look forward to the finished product with hope.

Richards and Carter do, too.

Oh, that's not what you meant...
- Number23

So did Carter and Richards

Leight - damn you #23
- Duran76

Perverts

Everyone knows that Sodes is his nickname.
- bradleyc4

possibilities for a 35-40 goal guy is weak, imo.
- isaiah520

That's all they really got for Richards, too.

What Holmgren did was not to simply create salary cap room. One does not trade the faces of his franchise in order to lock up a new goalie. The Flyers could have kept both of the players they traded away yesterday afteroon and signed Ilya Bryzgalov to the same contract and made the numbers work by moving other players.

He chose to change not just the face of his hockey club, but also it's essence.

Mike Richards and Jeff Carter were the face of the Flyers franchise. They were the twin pillars that were the crux of the team's drive to a championship. Veterans like Danny Briere and Kimmo Timonen were added to help them navigate the waters to the Stanley Cup.

Along the way, a kid from tiny Hearst, Ontario came along and wrested the role of being the team's franchise player out of the hands of Richards and Carter. Make no mistake, Claude Giroux is the franchise now.

Chris Pronger will get his share of the blame, and much will be made about his relationship with Richards. It's likely Pronger will replace Richards as the Flyers captain, and people will say that his relationship with Richards was untenable and couldn't be fixed so Richards was dealt.

I won't deny that there were issues. However to point to those issues now and say they were the end all, be all of the moves made yesterday is really stupid. The Flyers didn't trade Richards or Carter because they partied too heartily. They didn't trade Richards or Carter because they weren't good with the media. They traded them for a multitude of factors.

The Flyers have been a team that has been a Jeckyll and Hyde group since they rose from the ashes of the 2006-07 death march. Flyers fans have long joked about the team flipping the switch and going from the gang that couldn't shoot straight to SEAL Team 6.

They are the team with the 3rd highest playoff win total in the past 4 years. But they're also a team that crept into the playoffs in the last couple of days of the season in 2 out of the last 3 years. The same team that went to the 2010 Stanley Cup Final was also the team that needed a shootout win to even make the playoffs that year.

The local media had fun taking their potshots at the Flyers younger players that lived in Old City Philadelphia and lived lives with active social careers. Even yesterday, as Carter and Richards were dealt, several writers couldn't resist the urge to drop in a shot as the pair left town.

The media was not why the Flyers parted way with Richards and Carter yesterday, but the media won no respect in the way they covered the team. One hopes that Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds and Jake Voracek follow the lead of guys like Giroux, Briere and Pronger and play the game with the media, lest they get slammed for not being a good interview.

But, I digress. More than making cap room, the Flyers yesterday sent a message. That message wasn't to curtail the social life, or even to play nice with the media. The message was that flipping the switch was no longer a practical or workable situation. The message was sent loud and clear and there's no uncertainty about it.

The Flyers got a fair return yesterday for two guys they had been building around. They're not starting over or rebuilding. They are simply saying that nobody is safe if they can bring their A game on every single night.
- Jsaquella

I don't agree w/ all of this, but it's well done nonetheless.

Well Pierre doesn't like him, Flyers should trade him for some Timbits and a small coffee.

Voracek played on some pretty bad Columbus teams and put up more than respectable numbers. He's only 21 yrs old, perhaps a move to a real hockey city could redirect his focus is that not possible?
- PLindbergh31

pretty funny how Giroux said how they hated each other in the worlds

but glad he's on the team now

I want to see Homer bring back Knuble.

possibilities for a 35-40 goal guy is weak, imo.
- isaiah520

We have to wait and see. Who's to say Voracek can't be a 30 goal scorer in a few years?

A ton of people, (I'm not saying you) pissed and moaned about Carter for years now he's gone and everyone all of a sudden loves him.

Butsy tweeted "Wow" earlier today. Think he might still be in shock. He was pretty upset at losing both Carter and Richards
- Jsaquella

Butsy's at the 'safe house' with his own frat boys for draft weekend.

The fact that he tweeted at 4 AM has me concerned.

pretty funny how Giroux said how they hated each other in the worlds

but glad he's on the team now
- Crimsoninja

I think it's great that they hated each other. You hate a guy that is burning your team.

That's all they really got for Richards, too.
- Jsaquella

But Richards isn't a #1 center with a record of scoring 35+ goals.

Butsy's at the 'safe house' with his own frat boys for draft weekend.

The fact that he tweeted at 4 AM has me concerned.
- tangent_man

That fact that he's only tweeted a couple times since has me more worried.

Pierre McGuire was on NHL home ice this morning. He claims that Carter was told by the flyers that if he is traded, it would not be to the blue jackets.

First I heard that. Thought it was interesting.

What Holmgren did was not to simply create salary cap room. One does not trade the faces of his franchise in order to lock up a new goalie. The Flyers could have kept both of the players they traded away yesterday afteroon and signed Ilya Bryzgalov to the same contract and made the numbers work by moving other players.

He chose to change not just the face of his hockey club, but also it's essence.

Mike Richards and Jeff Carter were the face of the Flyers franchise. They were the twin pillars that were the crux of the team's drive to a championship. Veterans like Danny Briere and Kimmo Timonen were added to help them navigate the waters to the Stanley Cup.

Along the way, a kid from tiny Hearst, Ontario came along and wrested the role of being the team's franchise player out of the hands of Richards and Carter. Make no mistake, Claude Giroux is the franchise now.

Chris Pronger will get his share of the blame, and much will be made about his relationship with Richards. It's likely Pronger will replace Richards as the Flyers captain, and people will say that his relationship with Richards was untenable and couldn't be fixed so Richards was dealt.

I won't deny that there were issues. However to point to those issues now and say they were the end all, be all of the moves made yesterday is really stupid. The Flyers didn't trade Richards or Carter because they partied too heartily. They didn't trade Richards or Carter because they weren't good with the media. They traded them for a multitude of factors.

The Flyers have been a team that has been a Jeckyll and Hyde group since they rose from the ashes of the 2006-07 death march. Flyers fans have long joked about the team flipping the switch and going from the gang that couldn't shoot straight to SEAL Team 6.

They are the team with the 3rd highest playoff win total in the past 4 years. But they're also a team that crept into the playoffs in the last couple of days of the season in 2 out of the last 3 years. The same team that went to the 2010 Stanley Cup Final was also the team that needed a shootout win to even make the playoffs that year.

The local media had fun taking their potshots at the Flyers younger players that lived in Old City Philadelphia and lived lives with active social careers. Even yesterday, as Carter and Richards were dealt, several writers couldn't resist the urge to drop in a shot as the pair left town.

The media was not why the Flyers parted way with Richards and Carter yesterday, but the media won no respect in the way they covered the team. One hopes that Brayden Schenn, Wayne Simmonds and Jake Voracek follow the lead of guys like Giroux, Briere and Pronger and play the game with the media, lest they get slammed for not being a good interview.

But, I digress. More than making cap room, the Flyers yesterday sent a message. That message wasn't to curtail the social life, or even to play nice with the media. The message was that flipping the switch was no longer a practical or workable situation. The message was sent loud and clear and there's no uncertainty about it.

The Flyers got a fair return yesterday for two guys they had been building around. They're not starting over or rebuilding. They are simply saying that nobody is safe if they can bring their A game on every single night.
- Jsaquella

Good read.

I couldn't care less what Pierre thinks. The kid is not without question marks. The same can be said about Schenn and Simmonds. Find it a bit surprising that everyone who has worries about the return for Carter is jumping for joy at the return for Richards.

Both returns have question marks.
- Jsaquella

everyone? I thought the return for Richards was fair, not so for Carter. what I really question is what direction we have given our age/? marks on d and the sudden gaps in the forward group that used to be strengths. we'll see how homer finishes up.