JVR played well in the playoffs. Mike Richards as Captain and one of the team's top players, certainly deserves a large chunk of the pie of criticism for what happened last year. But there are other top players and leaders on the team that also were a part of that. It's why they call it a team. Mike Richards has played inspired Hockey in the past. One subpar Season where a lot of issues contributed to his Season and the team's Season, and many of the fanbase are ready with the knife to the back. It's disgusting.
- MJL

Can a person say they are unhappy about the way a guy played without it being a personal attack on that player?

but do you really believe they traded him because of "one subpar season"?
- sarmen25

Why wouldnt they?

The problem is that to the outsiders eye (well atleast most of them) he changed as a player. We were told since the day he was drafted we were getting the best leader, the future Clarke. He comes in and is instantly a crowd favorite. Fights, hits, scores, plays his ass off, never takes a shift off, etc. 07-08 blows up, becomes the guy everyone hoped he would become. Averages over a ppg that season, while still being the hardest worker on the team. Follows that up with an even better season. Is a true leader. Shows his tenacity and passion literally every shift. Finishes with 80 points.

Since then he has finished 62 and 66 points. He seems to be a different player on the ice. He seems to lack that fire that possessed him through the first 4 seasons.. I dont know if he lost that some of that desire or not, but that surely what it looked like.

Ill tell you right now... If Richards had continued to play the way he used to, he would still be on the team.
- jak521

I disagree with most of that. If there wasn't a Salary Cap and Holmgren hadn't gotten the team to the point of where it was, Richards and Carter would still be on this team.
When you simply look at his point totals and compare it to 07/08, your simply not taking all the factors into consideration.
He hasn't changed as a player in my opinion.

little off topic...but anyone know where i can buy cheap hockey jerseys? don't care if it's "made in china" either...
- sarmen25

Blasphemy! Yeah, like they need more help with exported goods. Hmpf!

Can a person say they are unhappy about the way a guy played without it being a personal attack on that player?
- jak521

Absolutely. I was unhappy with his overall play last year. Can a player have a subpar Season without it being due to a lack of effort?

I disagree with most of that. If there wasn't a Salary Cap and Holmgren hadn't gotten the team to the point of where it was, Richards and Carter would still be on this team.
When you simply look at his point totals and compare it to 07/08, your simply not taking all the factors into consideration.
He hasn't changed as a player in my opinion.
- MJL

When I simply look at point totals? I have mentioned 100 different reasons as to why i feel he has changed. Point totals (to me) are just the proof in the pudding.

So if there wasnt a Salary Cap, they would be on the team still. Yeah, now thats logical.

but do you really believe they traded him because of "one subpar season"?
- sarmen25

There were many factors that led to the trades, in my opinion. The fact that maybe Mike Richards wasn't a franchise player that they thought he would be, is one of them. That isn't Richards fault.

On the whole Richards debate i think that the impending no trade clause that was going to set in was a major factor in the decision to trade him. It is obvious that they were either not happy with him or just couldn't refuse the package we got for him.

Isn't this Schenn guy "the best prospect playing outside the NHL"

Side note- Remember when that guy was Jiri Dopita?

When I simply look at point totals? I have mentioned 100 different reasons as to why i feel he has changed. Point totals (to me) are just the proof in the pudding.

So if there wasnt a Salary Cap, they would be on the team still. Yeah, now thats logical.
- jak521

It's absolutely logical. Feel free to explain how it's not logical?

Absolutely. I was unhappy with his overall play last year. Can a player have a subpar Season without it being due to a lack of effort?
- MJL

Actually, that depends on how their play is manifested on the ice, and in Richards case, it did for sure have a lot to do with lack of effort, or sheer exhaustion. You have said he has played a lot of hockey. He may have been fatigued.

When I simply look at point totals? I have mentioned 100 different reasons as to why i feel he has changed. Point totals (to me) are just the proof in the pudding.

So if there wasnt a Salary Cap, they would be on the team still. Yeah, now thats logical.
- jak521

It's absolutely logical. Feel free to explain how it's not logical.

Actually, that depends on how their play is manifested on the ice, and in Richards case, it did for sure have a lot to do with lack of effort, or sheer exhaustion. You have said he has played a lot of hockey. He may have been fatigued.
- jak521

Mike Richards is no different from any other player. There's going to be games wheere for whatever reason he just doesn't have it over the course of a long Season. But I have never questioned Richards effort, comittment, or heart while he was here. I saw no reason to do so.

It's absolutely logical. Feel free to explain how it's not logical?
- MJL

Because there has been a salary cap since the lockout.

He would still be on the team if something that exists, and has existed the players entire career, didnt exist.

Here is an even more logical explanation. If he was more vocal, continued to play like he had in years past, and was more of a overall leader, he would still be on the team. He simply (despite a few glimmers) wasnt the player they wanted to (continue to) build the team around

captain van riemsdyk?
- OrangeBlack27

captain Cooter

I think MOAT's day was just ruined w/Preems ranking.

Because there has been a salary cap since the lockout.

He would still be on the team if something that exists, and has existed the players entire career, didnt exist.

Here is an even more logical explanation. If he was more vocal, continued to play like he had in years past, and was more of a overall leader, he would still be on the team. He simply (despite a few glimmers) wasnt the player they wanted to (continue to) build the team around
- jak521

I agree that they no longer saw him as a franchise player. That is one of the reasons I have have given multiple times for the trades. But he was signed to a franchise level 12 year deal, with an impending NTC. Your comments on the Cap make zero sense. If there was no Salary Cap, in my opinion the Flyers don't sign Richards to a 12 year deal.

Mike Richards is no different from any other player. There's going to be games wheere for whatever reason he just doesn't have it over the course of a long Season. But I have never questioned Richards effort, comittment, or heart while he was here. I saw no reason to do so.
- MJL

There were big stretches. When your captain starts to develop big stretches like that, its never a good thing.

Unrelated note, but another thing that has kinda bothered me since it happened:

The first ugly glimpse I had of Richards came two seasons ago, and I was vilified for even mentioning it. Richards was pulled from a PP and another player was sent out. A lesser skilled player (even though I forget who it was exactly). Richards gave this look where he was just completely floored by the suggestion. I'm not a facial expression expert, but this one was clear as day. It was almost an open mock of the player. Leaned back, eyes wide open, and he scoffingly laughed at said player.

My buddy saw it as well and couldnt believe it. He stopped like Richards at that exact moment. I didnt, but I will never forget it.

Richards gets pounded way too often. The main reason the Flyers went in the tank last season is because they did not have reliable goaltending. It's really that simple. Richards put up a very credible 66 points playing with average wingers for the most part. The guy Captained a team to game 6 of the Stanley Cup Finals two years ago with Michael Leighton as the goaltender. Think about that.

Flyers fans are going to find out just much how Richards is missed come October.

I agree that they no longer saw him as a franchise player. That is one of the reasons I have have given multiple times for the trades. But he was signed to a franchise level 12 year deal, with an impending NTC. Your comments on the Cap make zero sense. If there was no Salary Cap, in my opinion the Flyers don't sign Richards to a 12 year deal.
- MJL

I said he would still be on the team if he continued to play the way he always had. You said he would if there wasnt a salary cap. Its obvious this team didnt like the way he was turning out. Simply saying that if there wasnt a salary cap, is just like saying we could have Stamkos if there was a fantasy draft.

Mike Richards is no different from any other player. There's going to be games wheere for whatever reason he just doesn't have it over the course of a long Season. But I have never questioned Richards effort, comittment, or heart while he was here. I saw no reason to do so.
- MJL

Richards became complacent and had this sense of entitlement about him. You want proof? It was oozing from his play on the ice. The hunger was simply not there. Before you try to debate this issue MJL, I watch every single game of the season for the past 10 years and I can tell when a player is not putting forth the effort fans expect AND pay good money to see. So, don't insult my intelligence by saying that he's had a few off years and it doesn't change the player that he is. Physically, he's the same, but mentally...where it truly matters, he is not. And don't give me this load of crap about his feelings being hurt by the media and such.

Richards gets pounded way too often. The main reason the Flyers went in the tank last season is because they did not have reliable goaltending. It's really that simple. Richards put up a very credible 66 points playing with average wingers for the most part. The guy Captained a team to game 6 of the Stanley Cup Finals two years ago with Michael Leighton as the goaltender. Think about that.

Flyers fans are going to find out just much how Richards is missed come October.
- PLindbergh31

the goaltending left something to be desired in the playoffs for sure. laviolette made it even worse with his handling of things. that being said, i don't think the goaltending had much to do with the team's struggles down the regular season stretch. they simply didn't show up to compete much after the turn of the calendar from jan to feb.

There were big stretches. When your captain starts to develop big stretches like that, its never a good thing.

Unrelated note, but another thing that has kinda bothered me since it happened:

The first ugly glimpse I had of Richards came two seasons ago, and I was vilified for even mentioning it. Richards was pulled from a PP and another player was sent out. A lesser skilled player (even though I forget who it was exactly). Richards gave this look where he was just completely floored by the suggestion. I'm not a facial expression expert, but this one was clear as day. It was almost an open mock of the player. Leaned back, eyes wide open, and he scoffingly laughed at said player.

My buddy saw it as well and couldnt believe it. He stopped like Richards at that exact moment. I didnt, but I will never forget it.
- jak521

Damnit, where is Dr. Cal Lightman when you need him?

the goaltending left something to be desired in the playoffs for sure. laviolette made it even worse with his handling of things. that being said, i don't think the goaltending had much to do with the team's struggles down the regular season stretch. they simply didn't show up to compete much after the turn of the calendar from jan to feb.
- OrangeBlack27

Laviolette handled the goalies terribly. Went away from Bob too quickly, that being said he was in a tough position, he didn't have a goaltender he trusted. The last 2 months of the season the teams play dropped off dramatically. Due to injuries as well as the team running out of gas. Richards as the Captain deserves some criticism for that, but it's hardly all on him.

Richards gets pounded way too often. The main reason the Flyers went in the tank last season is because they did not have reliable goaltending. It's really that simple. Richards put up a very credible 66 points playing with average wingers for the most part. The guy Captained a team to game 6 of the Stanley Cup Finals two years ago with Michael Leighton as the goaltender. Think about that.

Flyers fans are going to find out just much how Richards is missed come October.
- PLindbergh31

While thinking about it, remember that aside from the 1st two series, he was a -7 and had 3 points (1 goal) in 10 of the last 11 games of that run. Minus that 1 game in Mtl, he really didnt have that great a positive impact.

This year he had 1 goal in 11 games. 2 goals in his last 21 playoff games isnt the greatest from a guy who NEEDS to contribute. Im not knocking him, but for everyone who says he wasnt the only reason the team failed, they also have to understand he was definitely far from the only reason they made it so far. Hell, it is easier to argue that Pronger, Briere, Giroux, Leino, and Hartnell were the reasons we made it so far. Or Briere, JvR and Giroux were the only reasons we made it out of the first rd this year.....

IMO Timo should have been given the C from day 1 and never look back.