IMO Timo should have been given the C from day 1 and never look back.
- MrBigglesworth

Would have been a great move, in retrospect

Laviolette handled the goalies terribly. Went away from Bob too quickly, that being said he was in a tough position, he didn't have a goaltender he trusted. The last 2 months of the season the teams play dropped off dramatically. Due to injuries as well as the team running out of gas. Richards as the Captain deserves some criticism for that, but it's hardly all on him.
- PLindbergh31

Agreed. I think part of the decision behind making the trades was that Richards/Carter-led teams had seen significant chunks of the last four seasons where it appeared as though not everyone was committed to competing at an elite level. Some of that certainly falls on the leadership. Some of that is just the reality of an 82-game season. Will be very interesting to see how this team fares in '10-'11 and how Richards and Carter do elsewhere.

Agreed. I think part of the decision behind making the trades was that Richards/Carter-led teams had seen significant chunks of the last four seasons where it appeared as though not everyone was committed to competing at an elite level. Some of that certainly falls on the leadership. Some of that is just the reality of an 82-game season. Will be very interesting to see how this team fares in '10-'11 and how Richards and Carter do elsewhere.
- OrangeBlack27

It will be very weird. Part of me honestly feels bad that the two will likely never play together again. At the same time, I firmly believe you write your own destiny...

While thinking about it, remember that aside from the 1st two series, he was a -7 and had 3 points (1 goal) in 10 of the last 11 games of that run. Minus that 1 game in Mtl, he really didnt have that great a positive impact.

This year he had 1 goal in 11 games. 2 goals in his last 21 playoff games isnt the greatest from a guy who NEEDS to contribute. Im not knocking him, but for everyone who says he wasnt the only reason the team failed, they also have to understand he was definitely far from the only reason they made it so far. Hell, it is easier to argue that Pronger, Briere, Giroux, Leino, and Hartnell were the reasons we made it so far. Or Briere, JvR and Giroux were the only reasons we made it out of the first rd this year.....
- jak521

Richards didn't play great against the Blackhawks. Even though he didn't score a lot in the series leading up to the Finals I thought his all around game was very good. Scoring isn't the only way a player contributes.

This year Richards was playing with a wrist that needed surgery, as well as pneumonia, I give him credit for playing at all under those conditions.

Agreed. I think part of the decision behind making the trades was that Richards/Carter-led teams had seen significant chunks of the last four seasons where it appeared as though not everyone was committed to competing at an elite level. Some of that certainly falls on the leadership. Some of that is just the reality of an 82-game season. Will be very interesting to see how this team fares in '10-'11 and how Richards and Carter do elsewhere.
- OrangeBlack27

Absolutely. At the very least we won't have to watch an embarrassing goaltender carousel for the next 5+ years. I'm grateful for that. It's a step in the right direction.

Richards is a very good player. If he wasn't donned as the captain of the team for the next 12 years he'd still be here I think. He didn't turn out to be the captain the team thought he would be so instead of stripping him of the C they thought it would he easier to move him. I still hope he has a great career and it was unfortunate it didn't work out for him here but nobody is right or wrong in this situation, IMO.

It will be very weird. Part of me honestly feels bad that the two will likely never play together again. At the same time, I firmly believe you write your own destiny...
- jak521

Yeah; it's weird. I wonder how much Richards' health has affected his play the last couple years. Also wonder if he will ever be healthy. Something tells me the 60-70 point range is where he'll be for the rest of his career.

little off topic...but anyone know where i can buy cheap hockey jerseys? don't care if it's "made in china" either...
- sarmen25

pm a poster named kicksave856, he found some super cheap place and he liked the product a lot but i don't remember the name of it

Richards didn't play great against the Blackhawks. Even though he didn't score a lot in the series leading up to the Finals I thought his all around game was very good. Scoring isn't the only way a player contributes.

This year Richards was playing with a wrist that needed surgery, as well as pneumonia, I give him credit for playing at all under those conditions.
- PLindbergh31

I do as well. But to say he lead the team to the cup, or lead the team to the second round isnt fair. Just as it isnt fair to suggest that he lead to the teams demise. I think if, any one single player could be looked at as leading the team to the cup, it would be Pronger. Look at how the team fared with and without him in the playoffs this year...

I fully understand that you have to look beyond points... but ultimately.. he needed to contribute more (especially in the cup final) in stat department. He is a hell of a two way player, but -7 in the last 10 games with next to no offensive contribution isnt leading a team.... And for a guy who does his leading by his play on the ice....

Its a shame. I really looked forward to him being around for years. Had he been traded two seasons ago, I dont think any return would have satisfied me. For some reason, I wasnt all that upset when i found out... just blown away

There were big stretches. When your captain starts to develop big stretches like that, its never a good thing.

Unrelated note, but another thing that has kinda bothered me since it happened:

The first ugly glimpse I had of Richards came two seasons ago, and I was vilified for even mentioning it. Richards was pulled from a PP and another player was sent out. A lesser skilled player (even though I forget who it was exactly). Richards gave this look where he was just completely floored by the suggestion. I'm not a facial expression expert, but this one was clear as day. It was almost an open mock of the player. Leaned back, eyes wide open, and he scoffingly laughed at said player.

My buddy saw it as well and couldnt believe it. He stopped like Richards at that exact moment. I didnt, but I will never forget it.
- jak521

Richards played here 6 Seasons. There weren't these so called big stretches.

I gave my opinion the last time you mentioned that about being pulled off the PP. Nothing has changed.

I do as well. But to say he lead the team to the cup, or lead the team to the second round isnt fair. Just as it isnt fair to suggest that he lead to the teams demise. I think if, any one single player could be looked at as leading the team to the cup, it would be Pronger. Look at how the team fared with and without him in the playoffs this year...

I fully understand that you have to look beyond points... but ultimately.. he needed to contribute more (especially in the cup final) in stat department. He is a hell of a two way player, but -7 in the last 10 games with next to no offensive contribution isnt leading a team.... And for a guy who does his leading by his play on the ice....

Its a shame. I really looked forward to him being around for years. Had he been traded two seasons ago, I dont think any return would have satisfied me. For some reason, I wasnt all that upset when i found out... just blown away
- jak521

I just feel trading both Carter and Richards was unnecessary. Who knows the real reasons why. We will never know.
I felt the only glaring weakness was the goaltending, that was addressed, and imo the drastic trades weren't justified. It's like they took two steps forward and three back. At least in the short term.

Yeah; it's weird. I wonder how much Richards' health has affected his play the last couple years. Also wonder if he will ever be healthy. Something tells me the 60-70 point range is where he'll be for the rest of his career.
- OrangeBlack27

With the linemates that he will have in LA I think he may break the 80 pt mark. He hit it with the flyers and was close to another time. He doesn't have to be the front and center media guy out there plus the media won't be out to get him. This all factors into him being able to play his game on the ice.

I said he would still be on the team if he continued to play the way he always had. You said he would if there wasnt a salary cap. Its obvious this team didnt like the way he was turning out. Simply saying that if there wasnt a salary cap, is just like saying we could have Stamkos if there was a fantasy draft.
- jak521

That's a poor analogy in my opinion. Fantasy Hockey has no relevance here. Salary Cap issues were clearly a huge part of why the deals were made.

Richards became complacent and had this sense of entitlement about him. You want proof? It was oozing from his play on the ice. The hunger was simply not there. Before you try to debate this issue MJL, I watch every single game of the season for the past 10 years and I can tell when a player is not putting forth the effort fans expect AND pay good money to see. So, don't insult my intelligence by saying that he's had a few off years and it doesn't change the player that he is. Physically, he's the same, but mentally...where it truly matters, he is not. And don't give me this load of crap about his feelings being hurt by the media and such.
- Flyer_Nation71

LOL, where do I begin? It wasn't oozing from his play. I also watch every game for the most part for years. I have no reason to question his effort. He is the same as he's always been. You haven't given me anything concrete here.

That's a ridiculous analogy and has no relevance in my opinion. Salary Cap issues were clearly a huge part of why the deals were made.
- MJL

I think cap flexibility was a huge factor in why they were traded. Their cap hits were friendly for the type of players they are, but I think management regretted the length of the deals.

While thinking about it, remember that aside from the 1st two series, he was a -7 and had 3 points (1 goal) in 10 of the last 11 games of that run. Minus that 1 game in Mtl, he really didnt have that great a positive impact.

This year he had 1 goal in 11 games. 2 goals in his last 21 playoff games isnt the greatest from a guy who NEEDS to contribute. Im not knocking him, but for everyone who says he wasnt the only reason the team failed, they also have to understand he was definitely far from the only reason they made it so far. Hell, it is easier to argue that Pronger, Briere, Giroux, Leino, and Hartnell were the reasons we made it so far. Or Briere, JvR and Giroux were the only reasons we made it out of the first rd this year.....
- jak521

There's an interesting concept in team sports. You win as a team, you lose as a team.

I think cap flexibility was a huge factor in why they were traded. Their cap hits were friendly for the type of players they are, but I think management regretted the length of the deals.
- PLindbergh31

No question about it in my opinion.

Yeah; it's weird. I wonder how much Richards' health has affected his play the last couple years. Also wonder if he will ever be healthy. Something tells me the 60-70 point range is where he'll be for the rest of his career.
- OrangeBlack27

There are players who just tend to get beat up a bit more. His style of play has changed a bit, and probably as result of those injuries. But to be honest, from the rumors I hear, and the fact that its true that he reports to camp later than other guys (some are there a week or 2 before hand just to kick the time off) doesnt bode well with me

Yeah; it's weird. I wonder how much Richards' health has affected his play the last couple years. Also wonder if he will ever be healthy. Something tells me the 60-70 point range is where he'll be for the rest of his career.
- OrangeBlack27

That's where he should be in my opinion. The one 80 point Season is on the high side. If he plays with two very good top offensive players with lots of top PP time and ES icetime, he could get to that point level again. But playing on a checking role on a team with 3 top lines, matching up against other teams top lines. Playing a huge role on the PK, while still putting up 60+ points. What's the problem?

No question about it in my opinion.
- MJL

I'm still in shock they were traded an hour apart. I was excited when Bryzgalov was acquired, but my expectations have been tempered by these trades.

Flyers were a 107 point team last year that had one glaring weakness. That weakness was addressed and they still managed to go backwards in the short term. It's hard to comprehend.

There are players who just tend to get beat up a bit more. His style of play has changed a bit, and probably as result of those injuries. But to be honest, from the rumors I hear, and the fact that its true that he reports to camp later than other guys (some are there a week or 2 before hand just to kick the time off) doesnt bode well with me
- jak521

What's this rumor you hear?

LOL, where do I begin? It wasn't oozing from his play. I also watch every game for the most part for years. I have no reason to question his effort. He is the same as he's always been. You haven't given my anything concrete here.
- MJL

Aside from his Goals Per Game avg, shot total, & penalty minutes going down (and you can argue that his decisions have gotten better), how can one debate his "hunger for the puck" had been satisfied by his "hunger for the buck" in his long term contract?

I'm still in shock they were traded an hour apart. I was excited when Bryzgalov was acquired, but my expectations have been tempered by these trades.

Flyers were a 107 point team last year that had one glaring weakness. That weakness was addressed and they still managed to go backwards in the short term. It's hard to comprehend.
- PLindbergh31

The goaltending had to be fixed. The other moves were a choice. we'll find out in a few years if it was a good choice.

Two years ago, the guy was on the top of the world, in terms of hockey players in Philadelphia. He played with the passion and ferocity that was disarming to the blue-collar city.

I don't know what happened. Was it the David Booth hit that changed him? Did the early successes mask his deficiencies as captain? Were there personal issues that distracted him?

Whatever it was, it just wasn't working here anymore. I miss the 2007-09 version of Mike Richards.
- bradleyc4

The goaltending had to be fixed. The other moves were a choice. we'll find out in a few years if it was a good choice.
- MJL

that's the thing. This team was ready to win now once they obtained the goaltender. By the time Schenn and Couterier are even anything that approach Richards and Carter, Pronger and Timonen are long gone, and Bryzgalov is on the other side of 35.