that's the thing. This team was ready to win now once they obtained the goaltender. By the time Schenn and Couterier are even anything that approach Richards and Carter, Pronger and Timonen are long gone, and Bryzgalov is on the other side of 35.
- PLindbergh31

Goaltending isn't why the 2010-11 team collapsed in the second half. It's not why the 2009-10 team needed to win a shootout in game 82. It was not the goaltending that caused them to drop 10 in a row during the 2007-08 season and drop from first in the Atlantic to the six seed.

They could still be ready to win now. On paper, the Flyers are very similar to the the Boston Bruins at this time last year.

Two years ago, the guy was on the top of the world, in terms of hockey players in Philadelphia. He played with the passion and ferocity that was disarming to the blue-collar city.

I don't know what happened. Was it the David Booth hit that changed him? Did the early successes mask his deficiencies as captain? Were there personal issues that distracted him?

Whatever it was, it just wasn't working here anymore. I miss the 2007-09 version of Mike Richards.
- bradleyc4

Brad, as always, makes a great point. The bottom line is, it simply wasn't working here.

Goaltending isn't why the 2010-11 team collapsed in the second half. It's not why the 2009-10 team needed to win a shootout in game 82. It was not the goaltending that caused them to drop 10 in a row during the 2007-08 season and drop from first in the Atlantic to the six seed.

They could still be ready to win now. On paper, the Flyers are very similar to the the Boston Bruins at this time last year.
- Jsaquella

Details

Lunch break eh? I now have to connect to some other companies internet because mine blocked this site. haha
- kgrpitt

Break earlier. Lunch now.

Ayup. Might as well use 30+ fingers to point at the players, coaches, GM, and owner.
- Flyskippy

They pretty much did, there's 10 guys that will not be returning. Lot of change to a 100 point team that won it's division.

I don't think that the troubles or issues or whatever were exclusive to Carter or Richards. It was a team wide sweep. The two biggest names get the most play, but let's face it, half the team is gone.

Goaltending isn't why the 2010-11 team collapsed in the second half. It's not why the 2009-10 team needed to win a shootout in game 82. It was not the goaltending that caused them to drop 10 in a row during the 2007-08 season and drop from first in the Atlantic to the six seed.

They could still be ready to win now. On paper, the Flyers are very similar to the the Boston Bruins at this time last year.
- Jsaquella

Hmm. Explain a bit? I think Boston had a better idea of what they had and how they needed to play to best fit their personnel. The Flyers will have a better understanding of what they have once training camp is over and a few games have went by. A lot more question marks then what Boston had. IMO of course, i know a lot will disagree.

Brad, as always, makes a great point. The bottom line is, it simply wasn't working here.
- Jsaquella

I wouldn't go that far...

no references to Ilkka today?
- wilsonecho91

"he's a marksman."

They pretty much did, there's 10 guys that will not be returning. Lot of change to a 100 point team that won it's division.

I don't think that the troubles or issues or whatever were exclusive to Carter or Richards. It was a team wide sweep. The two biggest names get the most play, but let's face it, half the team is gone.
- Jsaquella

Yes, "they" did. Here on HB, though, is another story entirely.

Details
- Schenn2shine

Top level goalie who is seen by some as a regular season hero and playoff zero. Young guys being elevated to positions of leadership. Good defense corps. Injuries to guys who are seen as key contributors if the team is to advance deep into the post season.

A perceived lack of scoring depth. A coach who presided over an embarassing playoff collapse.

They pretty much did, there's 10 guys that will not be returning. Lot of change to a 100 point team that won it's division.

I don't think that the troubles or issues or whatever were exclusive to Carter or Richards. It was a team wide sweep. The two biggest names get the most play, but let's face it, half the team is gone.
- Jsaquella

extending this even further...it wasn't working and it affected total team chemistry. too many games a few players always seemed to be a taking the night off and nowadays if you do that too many times you will not make the playoffs.
reguardless in how they do this year, i applaud Homer in trying to right the ship and put it on a better course. Although better is debatable at this time.

i read something about his conditioning or lack of...yes he played a lot of hockey the last couple of years but it did seems he lacked the "legs" in the second half of the year.

Hmm. Explain a bit? I think Boston had a better idea of what they had and how they needed to play to best fit their personnel. The Flyers will have a better understanding of what they have once training camp is over and a few games have went by. A lot more question marks then what Boston had. IMO of course, i know a lot will disagree.
- kgrpitt

Boston was coming off blowing a 3-0 series lead. They were shopping Tim Thomas-granted they were asking the stars and moon-but he could have been had. The Bruins best offensive player was dealing with post concussion issues and never really returned. Guys like Ryder and Wheeler were wildcards. Nobody knew if Horton would be the same talented but lazy guy he was in Florida.

Hell, nobody could have predicted the Bruins as a serious contender last August. I'm just saying people are way too quick to dismiss the talent the Flyers have. Even without Pronger they have a solid top four on defense. They have 4 or 5 guys that should score 20+ goals. They have another few guys that should score 15-20 each.

"he's a marksman."
- hammarby31

finishes with 199 goals as a Flyer

Boston was coming off blowing a 3-0 series lead. They were shopping Tim Thomas-granted they were asking the stars and moon-but he could have been had. The Bruins best offensive player was dealing with post concussion issues and never really returned. Guys like Ryder and Wheeler were wildcards. Nobody knew if Horton would be the same talented but lazy guy he was in Florida.

Hell, nobody could have predicted the Bruins as a serious contender last August. I'm just saying people are way too quick to dismiss the talent the Flyers have. Even without Pronger they have a solid top four on defense. They have 4 or 5 guys that should score 20+ goals. They have another few guys that should score 15-20 each.
- Jsaquella

Your making too much sense on here for people. Stop while your ahead. Everyone says its a team game that an individual is only one person so why is it hard to believe that this team can be better with the lose of Richards and Carter? Players can have career years, others can step up and become stars, we just dont know yet. I understand you can pencil those other two guys in for atleast 60+ points but that doesnt mean this team has to score as much with the goaltending. Theres plenty of talent upfront, backend, and between the pipes to be just as good as last year. Once your in the playoffs its all about what team hits its stride.

Top level goalie who is seen by some as a regular season hero and playoff zero. Young guys being elevated to positions of leadership. Good defense corps. Injuries to guys who are seen as key contributors if the team is to advance deep into the post season.

A perceived lack of scoring depth. A coach who presided over an embarassing playoff collapse.
- Jsaquella

I think you just named all things that good teams have however. Any team that goes far in the playoffs usually have all those characteristics and can make that argument in August for all playoff contenders.

Edit: Read your other post. I see what you were getting at.

Top level goalie who is seen by some as a regular season hero and playoff zero. Young guys being elevated to positions of leadership. Good defense corps. Injuries to guys who are seen as key contributors if the team is to advance deep into the post season.

A perceived lack of scoring depth. A coach who presided over an embarassing playoff collapse.
- Jsaquella

I have heard you make this comparison before and I see your points but I now view us as a poor man's Bruins while rolling around in a wheel chair.

Chara vs. Pronger, Chara is healthy and still fighting for the Norris, while Pronger...isn't.

Thomas pretty much won 2 awards in the Cup Final and deservingly so. We need Bryzgalov to carry over from the regular season the same way Thomas was able to.

Our Power Forwards (Hartnell, JvR, Simmonds) can't hold a handle to Boston's Power Forwards (Lucic, Horton).

Now I haven't lost faith in this team, I would just give Boston a serious edge. On paper, I think our team MIGHT have been better a year ago in September.

I have heard you make this comparison before and I see your points but I now view us as a poor man's Bruins while rolling around in a wheel chair.

Chara vs. Pronger, Chara is healthy and still fighting for the Norris, while Pronger...isn't.

Thomas pretty much won 2 award in the Cup Final and deservingly so. We need Bryzgalov to carry over from the regular season the same way Thomas was able to.

Our Power Forwards (Hartnell, JvR, Simmonds) can't hold a handle to Boston's Power Forwards (Lucic, Horton).

Now I haven't lost faith in this team, I would just give Boston a serious edge. On paper, I think our team MIGHT have been better a year ago in September.
- Schenn2shine

I agree with this. I give you all the edge with more offensive power then what boston has but the D is suspect (compared to bostons that is) so that offensive fire power will be used to score a few more goals that your defense allows. Either way this team should make the playoffs and once you are in anything can happen. Especially when you have a goalie that can steal a game or even a series.

I agree with this. I give you all the edge with more offensive power then what boston has but the D is suspect (compared to bostons that is) so that offensive fire power will be used to score a few more goals that your defense allows. Either way this team should make the playoffs and once you are in anything can happen. Especially when you have a goalie that can steal a game or even a series.
- kgrpitt

I bring up the point about the Power Forwards because I do feel toughness makes a difference. The way the Canucks played against the Hawks in the first round, I felt they over achieved the rest of the way. Out side of Bieksa and Kesler, I never saw a serious will to win.

I agree with this. I give you all the edge with more offensive power then what boston has but the D is suspect (compared to bostons that is) so that offensive fire power will be used to score a few more goals that your defense allows. Either way this team should make the playoffs and once you are in anything can happen. Especially when you have a goalie that can steal a game or even a series.
- kgrpitt

Going into last offseason the Flyers were rated one of the best defense core in the NHL. Bostons defenseman were not even among the list. They had Chara but realistically everyone else was a question mark. Seidenberg had a great year but he wasnt the next coming of Jesus. They played a rookie in McQuaid, and had Boychuk, Ference, (Kaberle at deadline) also so I dont see where last year there defense was rated as high coming into the season.

I have heard you make this comparison before and I see your points but I now view us as a poor man's Bruins while rolling around in a wheel chair.

Chara vs. Pronger, Chara is healthy and still fighting for the Norris, while Pronger...isn't.

Thomas pretty much won 2 awards in the Cup Final and deservingly so. We need Bryzgalov to carry over from the regular season the same way Thomas was able to.

Our Power Forwards (Hartnell, JvR, Simmonds) can't hold a handle to Boston's Power Forwards (Lucic, Horton).

Now I haven't lost faith in this team, I would just give Boston a serious edge. On paper, I think our team MIGHT have been better a year ago in September.
- Schenn2shine

Chara vs. Pronger -- yes, Chara obviously has the advantage. He's a couple of years younger, coming off of a fabulous season and is apparently healthy. But he's 34 years old now. The downturn of his career is likely to begin soon.

And even without Pronger, the Flyers defense isn't that far behind the Bruins, IMO. With a healthy Pronger, they're better.

Even though the Flyers grossly overpaid Bryzgalov, he's an immediate upgrade at the position and hopefully gives both the blueliners and forwards a little more peace of mind that he can be relied upon. I couldn't care less about his playoff track record. I don't think it's a good measure for future success/failure, too many other factors in play.

Let's remember, like you said, this is all on paper. So much is yet to happen that will change perceptions, favorites and underdogs.

I have heard you make this comparison before and I see your points but I now view us as a poor man's Bruins while rolling around in a wheel chair.

Chara vs. Pronger, Chara is healthy and still fighting for the Norris, while Pronger...isn't.

Thomas pretty much won 2 awards in the Cup Final and deservingly so. We need Bryzgalov to carry over from the regular season the same way Thomas was able to.

Our Power Forwards (Hartnell, JvR, Simmonds) can't hold a handle to Boston's Power Forwards (Lucic, Horton).

Now I haven't lost faith in this team, I would just give Boston a serious edge. On paper, I think our team MIGHT have been better a year ago in September.
- Schenn2shine

A player like Bergeron is also a huge hole in the Flyers lineup. A player that plays a solid checking game, very good on faceoffs, and does all the little things that go a long way to helping a team win. Many couldn't understand why Bergeron made Team Canada. I knew why.

Going into last offseason the Flyers were rated one of the best defense core in the NHL. Bostons defenseman were not even among the list. They had Chara but realistically everyone else was a question mark. Seidenberg had a great year but he wasnt the next coming of Jesus. They played a rookie in McQuaid, and had Boychuk, Ference, (Kaberle at deadline) also so I dont see where last year there defense was rated as high coming into the season.
- stveshdy

I was pointing out that if you compared how your defense looks now to what Bostons look last year that I think their D was more stable then yours. Not saying you d is horrible by any means but last year showed a bit of a let down when Pronger went down. I don't wana beat a dead horse here but it was an obvious drop. Timonen is also a question mark with his age and being injured last year.

Just to be clear as I pointed out before even if Pronger gets hurt you have a goalie that can pick up the slack more so then what you had last year obviously.

A player like Bergeron is also a huge hole in the Flyers lineup. A player that plays a solid checking game, very good on faceoffs, and does all the little things that go a long way to helping a team win. Many couldn't understand why Bergeron made Team Canada. I knew why.
- MJL

Gotta believe that the Flyers think they have that guy in Brayden Schenn. Obviously will be a learning curve this season and next, but he's got the skillset to be that guy.

A player like Bergeron is also a huge hole in the Flyers lineup. A player that plays a solid checking game, very good on faceoffs, and does all the little things that go a long way to helping a team win. Many couldn't understand why Bergeron made Team Canada. I knew why.
- MJL

I agree completely. I was going to make this point but with Giroux being the player that he was, I figured this would start some sort of debate.

I was pointing out that if you compared how your defense looks now to what Bostons look last year that I think their D was more stable then yours. Not saying you d is horrible by any means but last year showed a bit of a let down when Pronger went down. I don't wana beat a dead horse here but it was an obvious drop. Timonen is also a question mark with his age and being injured last year.

Just to be clear as I pointed out before even if Pronger gets hurt you have a goalie that can pick up the slack more so then what you had last year obviously.
- kgrpitt

I was just stating on Jsq point prior to the year, nobody could say Bostons defenseman were better than the Flyers.