I've already told you, I don't really care about what Sens fans have to think.
- prock

Then you should not allow yourself to be so easily triggered.

Look I was there for all those games. It was a long time ago. Not many players are still in the league. I doubt that there is a single Leaf remaining on the roster. It makes us sound like old confederate soldiers sitting around waiting for the south to rise again.
- spatso

I know, and Sens fans STILL can't get over it. Give it a rest, will you?

I don't think I've ever had a water cooler type conversation about the Sens, any Sens player, or anything like that, since those series. And it was just a chuckle then.

Get over it, it was so long ago.

and yet here you are, touting the greatness of a player, who you didn't know about 8 months ago, who has yet to play an NHL game
- FirstClass

Please point out where I'm touting his greatness.

How about how you've done a complete 180 over a guy you said was overpaid garbage two years ago.

Whoa. He wasn't consistently the best goalie in Switzerland. So to try to claim he was the best in all of Europe for many years is a stretch.

Allaire really developed him into a good NHL goalie, I won't deny that, but you really shouldn't make stuff up like that.
- prock

Hiller was highly sought after when he wanted to come to N.A, he was the best goalie there at the time, and look at him now, the problem with leafs and their fans is the overhype, u guys never learn your lesson

A dump is a dump is a dump. If you are receiving other people's dump it says something about the quality of your property.
- spatso

Ask Preds fans if they're happy losing Franson and getting guys who had no future on the Leafs back.

- Pie

It's true. They're stuck smack in the middle of two bigger, better Canadian cities, that have hockey teams that are better, and they've never managed to succeed over, with fans that fill THEIR arena when the teams play, and they like to think we hate them, because it makes them feel a little less insignificant.

Here is the problem. The Senators missed the playoffs the first five years after they entered as an expansion team. I think if you check you will see that they actually made the playoffs sooner than some other expansion teams have in their history. However, once they made the playoffs they continued as an elite team for a very long time. The Leafs by comparison have iced mediocre teams during most of the last 15 years (there have been a few good years). And, for seven years they have not made it to the post season.

My point over the summer has been very simple. If the Senators make the playoffs before the Leafs, there is going to be an enormous backlash. And, if it should happen Leaf fans will demand that MLSE look at how they go about trying to build a real contender. Nothing over this summer has changed for me in how I view the situation.
- spatso

How in gods green earth are the sens elite for that period but the leafs mediocre? The leafs had more playoff wins in that period than the sens.

Oh come on, how do you know Colburne and Gardiner would never make the Bruins or Ducks? That's a pretty silly statement.

And Nashville didn't want to move Franson to promote anyone.

And I hardly think if the Leafs had their own first rounder, they wouldn't make deals like this.
- RogerRoeper

how many times must i tell u, Gardiner got passed by FOUR players, in under a year on the org. depth chart! Bob Murray said as much when he traded him. Gardiner was never going to pass Fowler, Schultz or Vatanen as PMD's in our system

Then you should not allow yourself to be so easily triggered.
- spatso

Please point out where I'm touting his greatness.

How about how you've done a complete 180 over a guy you said was overpaid garbage two years ago.
- RogerRoeper

Beauchemin is a GOOD 2nd pairing dman, who Scott Niedermayer made look like a top pairing player.
with us we do not ask him to do what he's not good at, he will play with Fowler this year and continue being a stablizing force.

You constantly tell us how "everyone" thinks Gardiner is a great prospect, not even his own college coach thought he was!

Look, it's your Sens fan little man syndrome jealousy coming out here. Go in Eklund's blog or something, and ask fans of other teams if they would have liked to have done that deal. I think you'll pretty quickly find that it's just the syndrome in you.
- prock

Look I think that is the point right there. You want to believe that Senator fans would want Franson. They are already trying to figure out how to get Cowen and Rundblad into their top 6. Do you think Senator fans would take Franson over either Cowen or Rundblad. The talent that the Senators have is coming through their system. That is the part of the story that you do not want to look at. The Leafs do these deals because they don't have their own NHL ready prospects.

Burke came in saying he would build through the draft. He then dealt away three picks (Seguin, Knight and Hamilton). It was a huge mistake. Most Leaf fans admit it was a huge mistake. But, for some reason, their is a core of guys on this site who function as apologists for Burke trying to argue that everyone is fixed and they try and pretend that the deal did not set the franchise back by a bunch of years. I am a bit more irritated than usual. I attended four games this weekend of the prospects in Oshawa, I see the great kids that the Senators are putting together and it reminds of the mistakes the Leafs have made.
- spatso

Yes he made a mistake in that trade. He shipped out a 2nd 9th and 32nd for a 5th overall.

People make mistakes, and he learned from it.

he has since brought in Phaneuf, Aulie, Gardiner, Colborne, Franson, Lombardi, Liles, MAcarthur, Lupul, Brown, Armstrong, and more..

This is a solid set of players that will help us compete for a while. If we were trading away our draft picks for old talent again I would be pissed.

Since his one bad trade, he has since more than made up for it in my opinion. Seguin does not transform us into a playoff contender. He could become a great player, but he could also just as easily become no better than kessel (nothing guaranteed). He's building a good team at the moment, and we are getting better. The only thing he NEEDS to do is get us a great coach to make us competative, and then keep doing what hes doing.

Yet every game at the ACC continues to sell-out and ratings are through the roof.
- RogerRoeper

I am still a fan. I love hockey. I watch every Saturday niight. I know that I am part of the problem. Because I support them they do not think anybody is unhappy.

Hiller was highly sought after when he wanted to come to N.A, he was the best goalie there at the time, and look at him now, the problem with leafs and their fans is the overhype, u guys never learn your lesson
- FirstClass

Listen, your statement was not only stupid, but outright absurd. Trying to say he was the best goalie in Europe for many years is just plain idiotic. Honestly, think about that. He was flirting with playing B level pro hockey until just three years before he came over. The first of those years was the lockout, and he wouldn't have been in the top 20 of goalies that year. The year after that, he wasn't near the top of the Swiss league. In those first two years, Niklas Backstrom was completely destroying the Finnish league, and earned himself an NHL spot there. His last year, Hiller was named the top goalie in Switzerland, but if you like, I can easily name you 5 other goalies from other leagues through Europe that would put him to shame.

Of course, he's a great goalie now. Great on Burke for grabbing him, and Allaire for bringing him to where he is now.

Just face it, you got carried away and made a dumb comment.

Beauchemin is a GOOD 2nd pairing dman, who Scott Niedermayer made look like a top pairing player.
with us we do not ask him to do what he's not good at, he will play with Fowler this year and continue being a stablizing force.

You constantly tell us how "everyone" thinks Gardiner is a great prospect, not even his own college coach thought he was!
- FirstClass

He's considered a solid prospect, usually top 40-50 in the NHL and future top 4 D-man at least.

How in gods green earth are the sens elite for that period but the leafs mediocre? The leafs had more playoff wins in that period than the sens.
- burn

They regularly finished ahead of them in the standings as well, in the regular season as well. The only thing the Sens have over that period is a finals appearance, basically every other comparison between the two teams is a win for the Leafs.

Only one of the four series beatings of the Sens was an upset. The other three, the Leafs were the higher seeded team.

Yes he made a mistake in that trade. He shipped out a 2nd 9th and 32nd for a 5th overall.

People make mistakes, and he learned from it.

he has since brought in Phaneuf, Aulie, Gardiner, Colborne, Franson, Lombardi, Liles, MAcarthur, Lupul, Brown, Armstrong, and more..

This is a solid set of players that will help us compete for a while. If we were trading away our draft picks for old talent again I would be pissed.

Since his one bad trade, he has since more than made up for it in my opinion. Seguin does not transform us into a playoff contender. He could become a great player, but he could also just as easily become no better than kessel (nothing guaranteed). He's building a good team at the moment, and we are getting better. The only thing he NEEDS to do is get us a great coach to make us competative, and then keep doing what hes doing.
- mfreedman

For litterally nothing as well.

I've already told you, I don't really care about what Sens fans have to think.
- prock

I did not think it would upset other Leaf fans that I would stay sharply focused on their failings. I will continue to do so. The strange part is that I get almost as much flak from Ottawa fans. I also comment on the Oiler and Flyers blogs. They sometimes give me a hard time. But the irony is that a few Leaf fans give me the hardest time. It is my belief that they cannot handle the truth. My mission is to tell you the truth about the con being played by MLSE.

Look I think that is the point right there. You want to believe that Senator fans would want Franson. They are already trying to figure out how to get Cowen and Rundblad into their top 6. Do you think Senator fans would take Franson over either Cowen or Rundblad. The talent that the Senators have is coming through their system. That is the part of the story that you do not want to look at. The Leafs do these deals because they don't have their own NHL ready prospects.
- spatso

I think YOU'RE missing the point. I don't care whether Sens fans want him or not. He'd be one of their best defenseman, but I don't care what they think of him.

how many times must i tell u, Gardiner got passed by FOUR players, in under a year on the org. depth chart! Bob Murray said as much when he traded him. Gardiner was never going to pass Fowler, Schultz or Vatanen as PMD's in our system
- FirstClass

Are you telling me your GM made a snap decision about a prospect based on a short period of play?

I'd be pretty pissed if I were you, and my GM were giving up on prospects on the turn of a dime.

Look I think that is the point right there. You want to believe that Senator fans would want Franson. They are already trying to figure out how to get Cowen and Rundblad into their top 6. Do you think Senator fans would take Franson over either Cowen or Rundblad. The talent that the Senators have is coming through their system. That is the part of the story that you do not want to look at. The Leafs do these deals because they don't have their own NHL ready prospects.
- spatso

Yeah because neither is a lock to be good enough to crack that mediocre defense.

Yes he made a mistake in that trade. He shipped out a 2nd 9th and 32nd for a 5th overall.

People make mistakes, and he learned from it.

he has since brought in Phaneuf, Aulie, Gardiner, Colborne, Franson, Lombardi, Liles, MAcarthur, Lupul, Brown, Armstrong, and more..

This is a solid set of players that will help us compete for a while. If we were trading away our draft picks for old talent again I would be pissed.

Since his one bad trade, he has since more than made up for it in my opinion. Seguin does not transform us into a playoff contender. He could become a great player, but he could also just as easily become no better than kessel (nothing guaranteed). He's building a good team at the moment, and we are getting better. The only thing he NEEDS to do is get us a great coach to make us competative, and then keep doing what hes doing.
- mfreedman

Most of the players u listed are either marginal talents or are paid more than they are worth

Anaheim got a player in Beauchemin they could have had for free 18 months earlier. Terrible trade. If the Leafs pulled that you'd be all over them.
- RogerRoeper

Look I have not been critical of the deal. I like the deal. Beauchemin was a bad fit for the Leafs. His skill set did not work with what was already in place. Gardiner is a great return. Lupul is a good fit if he can sustain what he has started. But the idea that these are great players within the overall framework of the NHL is ludicrous. These are players that were expendable to Anahiem. They did not fit in their plans. It was an attempt to move players out. Anahiem got the piece that they wanted, the Leafs took the pieces that Anahiem wanted to give up. The story is not much more complex than that. But ever since the Kessel deal the kool aid drinkers are trying to rehabilitate Burke's reputation.

Look I think that is the point right there. You want to believe that Senator fans would want Franson. They are already trying to figure out how to get Cowen and Rundblad into their top 6. Do you think Senator fans would take Franson over either Cowen or Rundblad. The talent that the Senators have is coming through their system. That is the part of the story that you do not want to look at. The Leafs do these deals because they don't have their own NHL ready prospects.
- spatso

If Ottawa could get rid of Kuba and Gonchar, they would take him in a second. The real question is, who would they prefer to have on their team over Franson?

I did not think it would upset other Leaf fans that I would stay sharply focused on their failings. I will continue to do so. The strange part is that I get almost as much flak from Ottawa fans. I also comment on the Oiler and Flyers blogs. They sometimes give me a hard time. But the irony is that a few Leaf fans give me the hardest time. It is my belief that they cannot handle the truth. My mission is to tell you the truth about the con being played by MLSE.
- spatso

It's you Sens fans that can't handle the truth. FFS, one of them in this very thread called Milan Michalek an impact player. Clearly someone has the wool over that guys eyes.

I think he's actually the same guy that said for many years that the Sens would never require a rebuild, because they were rebuilding while they were always competitive.

Holy Koolaid.