Can we not institute a system whereby whenever he tries (and fails at) the "step over the blueline, hesitate, toe-drag" move, he's fined $5,000?
- Atomic Wedgie

im cool with that

here is the page for the leaf stats, just click on the recap icon

http://mapleleafs.nhl.com...b/schedule.htm?gameType=1
- Dozzer

keep an eye out for both "take" and "give" - they are both basically a turn over one way or another.

I'm not disagreeing with the intending effect of creating a deterrent.

But with the precedent that Shanny has set, we're looking at two possibilities:

a) There is a major suspension handed out almost once per night.
- Leeman4Gilmour

So what? If the suspensions are warranted, it doesn't matter if they happen all the time. What matters is that the players are being suspended when they break the rules.

b) He lets his foot off the gas a little bit and gets ripped for being an inconsistent hypocrite and lose his credibility until the point where Colin Campbell looks like an upgrade.

You don't know Shanahan very well do you?

Personally, I think we're headed for Option B. Rightly or wrongly, people will get sick of the endless suspensions and he will have to let some stuff slide.

Guess you don't. If "people" get sick of suspensions, they can suck a lemon. Accountability needs to be brought to the players in a way they understand.

The only problem here is the possibility that hitting starts to disappear from the game. Other than that, Shanahan is doing his job and doing it damn well.

I disagree and if you base this on the commentators as you're reasoning that we see Frattin ahead, then you are basically calling all of us blind. Frattin does not have as many giveaways as Kadri, Frattin has been head and shoulders above Kadri particularly in the defensive zone.

Now after saying this, I have high hopes for Kadri and refuse to give up on the guy, he is just not ready yet, especially mentally.

This is all my opinion only.
- LeafMan

I don't, but many do...

Suggesting Frattin has been head and shoulders above Kadri is ignoring a lot of the mistakes Frattin has made. The difference is not nearly that great. Frattin has a couple goals so he seems further ahead. Kadri has had 3-4 near misses. As Dozzer said, if Kadri had potted a few more points, this wouldn't even be a discussion.

Wow was the chip and chase in vogue last night, eh?

Nice to see the lunch bucket guys kept to a simple system and played it very well.

Although I'm not sure it will work as well against more experienced d-corps.

And while I'm evaluating last night's play, kudos to Ron Wilson.

I thought pulling shaky James Reimer at the end of the first period was the smart thing to do.

Once they put in confident James Reimer at the start of the second period, things seemed to settle down.
- Atomic Wedgie

That's how the Leafs will be successful at getting into the opponents end. They're speedy and gritty. They don't have the kind of talent to dance and dangle around defenders.

The first goal was a bad rebound, but players won't be able to bat the puck out of mid-air like that 100% of the time. The second goal was more like a blooper. Reimer caught an edge and fell. How often is that gonna happen? The 3rd goal can't be blamed on him. That was a crazy scramble. He made the first save, and probably another, before someone Forrest Gumped the thing in the back of the net. I thought Reimer played okay last night, and got better as the game moved along.

at the start of pre-season i would of given it to kadri but not now. kadri has more skill but is lacking the fundamentals aspect of the game at this point imo

frattin looks like an NHLer, be it a young one, however I maintain the same concern about him as I always have.. when it comes to college prospects, its a flip of a coin to assess if they can play a full professional season, since college seasons arent even 3/4 as long as an NHL one.

lombardi over both of them if healthy.
- Dozzer

agreed, only lombo will start the season onthe 4th at best...

Frattin-Bozak-Armstrong as the opening day 3rd line would make me happy

here is the page for the leaf stats, just click on the recap icon

http://mapleleafs.nhl.com...b/schedule.htm?gameType=1
- Dozzer

Also ..

http://www.cbssports.com/...teams/stats/TOR/preseason

lombardi over both of them if healthy.
- truth.serum

agreed, only lombo will start the season onthe 4th at best...

Frattin-Bozak-Armstrong as the opening day 3rd line would make me happy

i really dont like the idea of lombardi on the 4th line, lombardi and orr on our physical line? doesnt make sense to me to put two guys coming off concussions on the most physical line

I don't, but many do...

Suggesting Frattin has been head and shoulders above Kadri is ignoring a lot of the mistakes Frattin has made. The difference is not nearly that great. Frattin has a couple goals so he seems further ahead. Kadri has had 3-4 near misses. As Dozzer said, if Kadri had potted a few more points, this wouldn't even be a discussion.
- Big_Lightnin

Points in the preseason can be misleading, I go by play and what I see, we agree to disagree, that's fine,

here is the page for the leaf stats, just click on the recap icon

http://mapleleafs.nhl.com...b/schedule.htm?gameType=1
- Dozzer

that's just the box score though. TSN has that too, but no RealTime stats - ie giveaways, hits, blocks etc.

agreed, only lombo will start the season onthe 4th at best...

Frattin-Bozak-Armstrong as the opening day 3rd line would make me happy

i really dont like the idea of lombardi on the 4th line, lombardi and orr on our physical line? doesnt make sense to me to put two guys coming off concussions on the most physical line
- Dozzer

he wont be a mainstay on there... its just to work him in.. also, not so sure Orr is etched in stone over there.

Also ..

http://www.cbssports.com/...teams/stats/TOR/preseason
- The Law

ahhh offensive totals.. nice, thank you

that's just the box score though. TSN has that too, but no RealTime stats - ie giveaways, hits, blocks etc.
- Big_Lightnin

ahhh okay, sorry i didnt realize you were looking for the in depth stuff

So what? If the suspensions are warranted, it doesn't matter if they happen all the time. What matters is that the players are being suspended when they break the rules.



You don't know Shanahan very well do you?



Guess you don't. If "people" get sick of suspensions, they can suck a lemon. Accountability needs to be brought to the players in a way they understand.
The only problem here is the possibility that hitting starts to disappear from the game. Other than that, Shanahan is doing his job and doing it damn well.
- Unholy_Goalie

And you do? Got his cell number or something? Text him and see if he wants to go out for a beer tonight. Can I come and get in on your little buddy-buddy thing, too, oh Wise One?

Anyway, still no word on any supplementary discipline for Neil, and according to TSN, none is expected.

So, after everything thats been called so far, Shanny lets this one slide. And the credibility is disappearing already.

he wont be a mainstay on there... its just to work him in.. also, not so sure Orr is etched in stone over there.
- truth.serum

i wouldnt be against benching orr, i think rosehill has a more complete game anyways.

And you do? Got his cell number or something? Text him and see if he wants to go out for a beer tonight. Can I come and get in on your little buddy-buddy thing, too, oh Wise One?

Anyway, still no word on any supplementary discipline for Neil, and according to TSN, none is expected.

So, after everything thats been called so far, Shanny lets this one slide. And the credibility is disappearing already.
- Leeman4Gilmour

as i mentioned earlier, its hard to suspend neil for a hit when there was no suspension on phaneuf's game one hit, same hit, different players, the only difference is phaneuf's hit was a touch late, while grabovski had the puck with his head down when he got tagged by neil

i wouldnt be against benching orr, i think rosehill has a more complete game anyways.
- Dozzer

agreed.... i wouldnt be blown away if orr get put on waivers for the purpose of being sent down...

as i mentioned earlier, its hard to suspend neil for a hit when there was no suspension on phaneuf's game one hit, same hit, different players, the only difference is phaneuf's hit was a touch late, while grabovski had the puck with his head down when he got tagged by neil
- Dozzer

Grabby didn't have the puck. He was breaking for the neutral zone while his d-man was looking for an outlet.

I thought it was a dirty hit, but what can ya do. I'm sure Rosie or Brown will introduce themselves to Niel next game.

So, after everything thats been called so far, Shanny lets this one slide. And the credibility is disappearing already.
- Leeman4Gilmour

Nope but you've never had a problem with lying to yourself before.

Points in the preseason can be misleading, I go by play and what I see, we agree to disagree, that's fine,
- LeafMan

But this is exactly what I'm saying too!

All I'm saying is they are under different microscopes. People are expecting more from Kadri, but for the most part he has had a good camp. He was certainly better last night than Connolly had been yet, and that was Kessel's best game as well.

ahhh okay, sorry i didnt realize you were looking for the in depth stuff
- Dozzer

ya was in reference to Giveaways for Frattin and Kadri. I think the actual numbers would suprise a lot of people, from what I have seen.

as i mentioned earlier, its hard to suspend neil for a hit when there was no suspension on phaneuf's game one hit, same hit, different players, the only difference is phaneuf's hit was a touch late, while grabovski had the puck with his head down when he got tagged by neil
- Dozzer

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Grabovski did not have the puck at all, and had not touched it for quite some time before the hit.

And, again, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with the intent of these suspensions in eliminating dirty hits. But now Shanny has set a standard and he's committed himself to holding fast to that standard.

I do hope he has the guts to continue to stick to his guns, but's he's gone all in, and now he has to keep it up. If Neil doesn't get anything, then it shows his resolve is already cracking.

I don't, but many do...

Suggesting Frattin has been head and shoulders above Kadri is ignoring a lot of the mistakes Frattin has made. The difference is not nearly that great. Frattin has a couple goals so he seems further ahead. Kadri has had 3-4 near misses. As Dozzer said, if Kadri had potted a few more points, this wouldn't even be a discussion.
- Big_Lightnin

Those 3 or 4 misses are what turned Filatov from a once promising prospect, to one with a value of a third rounder. Kadri has to start putting points on the board if he's going to continue being lax on the defensive side of the game.

as i mentioned earlier, its hard to suspend neil for a hit when there was no suspension on phaneuf's game one hit, same hit, different players, the only difference is phaneuf's hit was a touch late, while grabovski had the puck with his head down when he got tagged by neil
- Dozzer

Grabo was nowhere near the puck. Well, ok, he was near it. He was skating beside the guy who actually had the puck.

as i mentioned earlier, its hard to suspend neil for a hit when there was no suspension on phaneuf's game one hit, same hit, different players, the only difference is phaneuf's hit was a touch late, while grabovski had the puck with his head down when he got tagged by neil
- Dozzer

thats the thing, neil saw grabovski flying up so he leaned into him and hit him, Gbov didnt have the puck.

it was similar to the Crosby cheapshot in the winter classic.