Ottawa & toronto first rounders since Ottawa returned to the NHL.


1992
Ottawa Alexei Yashin
toronto Brandon Convery

1993
Ottawa Alexandre Daigle
toronto Kenny Jonsson

1994
Ottawa Radek Bonk
toronto Eric Fichaud

1995
Ottawa Bryan Berard
toronto Jeff Ware

1996
Ottawa Chris Phillips

1997
Ottawa Marian Hossa

1998
toronto Nikolai Antropov
Ottawa Mathieu Chouinard

1999
toronto Luca Cereda
Ottawa Martin Havlat

2000
Ottawa Anton Volchenkov
toronto Brad Boyes

2001
Ottawa Jason Spezza
toronto Carlo Colaiacovo
Ottawa Tim Gleason

2002
Ottawa Jakub Klepis
toronto Alexander Steen

2003
Ottawa Patrick Eaves

2004
Ottawa Andrej Meszaros

2005
Ottawa Brian Lee
toronto Tuukka Rask

2006
toronto Jiri Tlusty
Ottawa Nick Foligno

2007
Ottawa Jim O'Brien

2008
toronto Luke Schenn
Ottawa Erik Karlsson

2009
toronto Nazem Kadri
Ottawa Jared Cowen

2011
Ottawa Mika Zibanejad
Ottawa Stefan Noesen
toronto Tyler Biggs
Ottawa Matt Puempel

Players in bold currently on NHL roster (Sens or leafs)


.
- Doppleganger

Wow the leafs drafting before BB almost looks like some sort of curse,did the leafs trade babe ruth or something

He was in that other thread last season when the Binghamton Senators were on their playoff run. Even when we suggested he look at production from young up and coming forwards, as opposed to a the whole team's success.
- Morris

I think that is the right distinction. You have to look at individual player performance in relation to age and development. There have been lots of great performers who could not produce at the same level in the NHL. Fans keep demanding that some players be brought up and given a chance. They often fail to understand how good scouting and evaluation has become.

I upset a bunch of people when I said that I doubted that Nashville gave up too much when they dealt Franson and Lombardy to the Leafs. I thought that because Nashville is so good at evaluating talent and they do not make a lot of mistakes. Not as certain about Colborne but I am inclined to think that Chiarelli has a pretty good idea about his talent and I doubt that he gives up a potential #1 center for a rental.

Actually, I think you struggle to get it. I was simply disputing the original premise that assumed you could make a direct comparison between an AHL scorer and an OHL defender. The largest problem is that the AHL is notorious for swallowing great scorers who cannot duplicate the result in the NHL. But the larger problem of the attempted comparison is that Colborne is 42 months older than Hamilton.

So the issue for Colborne is whether he will ever make the NHL as a regular top six player. In the case of Hamilton, the horizon is far higher and the potential on his ceiling that suggests he may be a future superstar in the making.
- spatso

Voynov is the same age as colborne and just now is getting his shot in the NHL.

Brayden Schenn is 1 year younger than Colborne and has the same level of NHL experience.

I understand that Hamilton is younger, I never disputed this fact.

The point I was trying to make is that we were targetted for giving up the OHL point leading defenceman, when we received, from the same team, the AHL point leading offensive player.

It was not a way of saying you suck, it was a way of pointing out what he has missed in his argument.

And while you say that Hamilton has the higher ceiling, I can easily counter by saying that he has a less likely chance of reaching his ceiling that Colborne does, as Colborne is showing success at a higher level of play (AHL) than Hamilton is showing it in (OHL).

That being said, I am by no means saying that Colborne is guaranteed to have any more of an impact than Hamilton, all I was saying is if someone is going to throw the success of a player in a league 2 levels down from the NHL level, why can I not bring up the success of a player leading the league 1 level below the NHL?

Not a good point. Most AHL leading scoreres end up being career AHL players, not many are able to duplicate the actual scoring level at the NHL level.

I am biased when it comes to Hamilton. I believe Hamilton may grow into the top Dman taken in the last draft. People forget that Huberdeau, Strome and Hamilton are nearly a full year younger than some of the other players taken (Landeskog, Larsson, Couturier).
- spatso

So many points about this I don't know where to start. You've misunderstood and misconstrued things. Not surprising though.

First, you are partly right. Most AHL scoring race winners are career AHLers. But that is when you look at full season statistics. There are a few reasons for this, the primary one being that the big scorers at the AHL, that are career AHLers, stay there for the whole season, and put up big totals. When you get legit prospects, that are still young, and may do well at the NHL level, they get called up, and don't spend the entire season in the AHL. And rarely end up top of the AHL scoring race. The likes of Jason Krog, Keith Aucoin, and Corey Locke fill the nets year after year.... and end up at the top of the stats. But they stay there the entire year, year after year. And don't get called up. Second, you'll also find that 95% of these guys, are generally very skilled guys, just not big enough to make it at the NHL level. That's the most common reason. And clearly, none of this fits Joe Colborne.

Now, again, when you say that most players who put up big points in the AHL rarely are able to duplicate it at the NHL level. Well.... duh. Is this really a shock that players generally don't put up as big numbers at higher levels? I doubt anyone expects Colborne to score at the same pace in the NHL as he is in the AHL. It would be nice to have a 120 point centre on our hands, but no one is stupid enough to expect him to duplicate that in the NHL.

So, here is the thing..... Try find the last player, 21 or under, over 6 foot, to lead the AHL in scoring (or even top 5 for that matter)..... I haven't even looked, but if I had to guess, it's going to be in 04/05, when players like this spent the entire season in the AHL, but only because of the lockout.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think this means he's going to be a good NHLer. Putting up big numbers in the AHL does not always translate to NHL success. It's a good sign, nothing more. The way I look at it, AHL production is more or less a way of weeding players out. Putting up big numbers in the AHL at a young age doesn't mean the player is going to be a solid NHLer. However, the reverse.... Not excelling in the AHL before, say maybe 22, generally means you can toss the player out as ever being an impact NHLer.

So, while Colborne leading the AHL in scoring is a good sign.... He's legitimizing himself as a solid prospect. It doesn't necessarily mean he's a surefire top 6 centre.

Now, the last point.... All of this, applies tenfold to a player in the CHL. The basic point of the response to Doppledouche's post is, AHL player of the month, at 21, leading the scoring race, doesn't make him an A1 prospect. But it means SIGNIFICANTLY more than OHL Defenseman of the month.

Wow the leafs drafting before BB almost looks like some sort of curse,did the leafs trade babe ruth or something
- top shelf 15

What are you talking aboout!? We drafted Eric Fichaud... FICHAUD!!

Actually, I think you struggle to get it. I was simply disputing the original premise that assumed you could make a direct comparison between an AHL scorer and an OHL defender. The largest problem is that the AHL is notorious for swallowing great scorers who cannot duplicate the result in the NHL. But the larger problem of the attempted comparison is that Colborne is 42 months older than Hamilton.

So the issue for Colborne is whether he will ever make the NHL as a regular top six player. In the case of Hamilton, the horizon is far higher and the potential on his ceiling that suggests he may be a future superstar in the making.
- spatso

unlike the OHL, right?

Actually, I think you struggle to get it. I was simply disputing the original premise that assumed you could make a direct comparison between an AHL scorer and an OHL defender. The largest problem is that the AHL is notorious for swallowing great scorers who cannot duplicate the result in the NHL. But the larger problem of the attempted comparison is that Colborne is 42 months older than Hamilton.

So the issue for Colborne is whether he will ever make the NHL as a regular top six player. In the case of Hamilton, the horizon is far higher and the potential on his ceiling that suggests he may be a future superstar in the making.
- spatso

the problem is that colborne will likely not be a scorer in the nhl. he has to expand his game so that he isn't waiting for a top 6 spot to open up as that is not likely to happen in the next few years. If he can develop his game to use his size on a regular basis he can move into a 3rd or 4th line centre role and try to move up from there.

the problem is that colborne will likely not be a scorer in the nhl. he has to expand his game so that he isn't waiting for a top 6 spot to open up as that is not likely to happen in the next few years. If he can develop his game to use his size on a regular basis he can move into a 3rd or 4th line centre role and try to move up from there.
- sens rock

We've got Connolly as our top line center. If Colborne wasn't day-to-day in the AHL right now, he'd have been called up to fill in.

plus, Grabo is a UFA at season's end, it's very possible he gets traded.

Voynov is the same age as colborne and just now is getting his shot in the NHL.

Brayden Schenn is 1 year younger than Colborne and has the same level of NHL experience.

I understand that Hamilton is younger, I never disputed this fact.

The point I was trying to make is that we were targetted for giving up the OHL point leading defenceman, when we received, from the same team, the AHL point leading offensive player.

It was not a way of saying you suck, it was a way of pointing out what he has missed in his argument.

And while you say that Hamilton has the higher ceiling, I can easily counter by saying that he has a less likely chance of reaching his ceiling that Colborne does, as Colborne is showing success at a higher level of play (AHL) than Hamilton is showing it in (OHL).

That being said, I am by no means saying that Colborne is guaranteed to have any more of an impact than Hamilton, all I was saying is if someone is going to throw the success of a player in a league 2 levels down from the NHL level, why can I not bring up the success of a player leading the league 1 level below the NHL?
- mfreedman

Colbourne is a project that looks like he is starting to get the pro game,leave him in the AHL this season .He will be better for it

We've got Connolly as our top line center. If Colborne wasn't day-to-day in the AHL right now, he'd have been called up to fill in.

plus, Grabo is a UFA at season's end, it's very possible he gets traded.
- Schenn-Sational!

I don't know why he would be called up. Despite his point totals, i don't think he is ready to be an nhl player right now, much less a top 6 centre.

Colbourne is a project that looks like he is starting to get the pro game,leave him in the AHL this season .He will be better for it
- top shelf 15

Never said differently.

That wasn't the point I was making, read back a bit if you feel like wasting some time

I don't know why he would be called up. Despite his point totals, i don't think he is ready to be an nhl player right now, much less a top 6 centre.
- sens rock

Leafs do call-ups based on merit. Whoever's doing the best gets the call, especially if it's their position that's needed.

He's been the top center in that league, so with a center injured, he would have gotten the call to show what he can do at the NHL level, probably splitting time with Bozak on the top line.

What are you talking aboout!? We drafted Eric Fichaud... FICHAUD!!


- mfreedman

That has been the leafs problem,too much pressure to ice a winner every year.If the would have had a decent scouting staff they probably would have a cup or two by now.

To many leaf propanganda shows that kept telling fans the team was headed in the right direction,too many leaf gm,s believed it

Never said differently.

That wasn't the point I was making, read back a bit if you feel like wasting some time
- mfreedman

Sorry your right ,i like colbourne just wanted in on the conversation jumped the gun a bit

knew you were going to bring this up.

Your position was that an AHL team's success had tons to bear on its players' futures, and thus the NHL team's future. Not a terrible assertion in and of itself.

You ran in to some difficulty in my books when I suggested that team success didn't really have more to bear on a player's future than that player's individual achievement, and it fell on completely deaf ears.

Before you don't answer this, tell me I'm trying to prove things exclusively with stats, tell me to have a beer and relax, tell me to go get some sun, or change the subject completely, please consider not responding if it's not going to be constructive.
- Morris

Clearly you can't believe that somehow you know "my position" on any given topic, including how AHL experience does or does not translate into a player(s) future, or to the improvement of his NHL team should he make the NHL roster. That would be quite arrogant on your part.

My point, if memory serves me well, as it was way back before the draft, was that any good experience in the AHL, has to benefit the player(s) and or team in a positive sense. To what degree, you or I can never tell.

But it's not a hard stretch of logic to make, when you see players having success at winning at the junior level, the US College level or players that experience winning the WJHC that it is not a negative impact on their development.

Ottawa for example, currently has six players that experienced a great AHL playoff run last spring. This has to give them a leg up in getting them NHL ready over players on an AHL that failed to make the playoffs.

Ottawa has three players that receive a lot of PK time at the NHL, and they had a lot of the same, in their playoff run last spring. Killing penalties in the AHL playoffs is going to help those players make the transition to the NHL easier than those AHL that were playing golf at the same time.

You can't possibly say there is zero difference between a player putting and one logging a lot of time on the PP or the PK in the AHL playoffs.

That has been the leafs problem,too much pressure to ice a winner every year.If the would have had a decent scouting staff they probably would have a cup or two by now.

To many leaf propanganda shows that kept telling fans the team was headed in the right direction,too many leaf gm,s believed it
- top shelf 15

we have a good scouting staff, we just don't keep our picks

edit: unless you meant in the past. In which case, they were still ok, it was just the guy making the picks that was a bit of a dunce.

Leafs do call-ups based on merit. Whoever's doing the best gets the call, especially if it's their position that's needed.

He's been the top center in that league, so with a center injured, he would have gotten the call to show what he can do at the NHL level, probably splitting time with Bozak on the top line.
- Schenn-Sational!

I guess you have to throw him a bone at some point during the season. I just don't think he's close to a top 6 forward at this point, and isn't a good fit in the bottom 6. he's sorta stuck in no mans land at this point in his career.

we have a good scouting staff, we just don't keep our picks

edit: unless you meant in the past. In which case, they were still ok, it was just the guy making the picks that was a bit of a dunce.
- Schenn-Sational!

Yep BB has spent some money on scouting and the team is building some prospect depth now,the years before are not as good .

But it was different back then the leafs had money and could outbid for FA players they wanted ,they didnt seem to care much about the draft back then

I guess you have to throw him a bone at some point during the season. I just don't think he's close to a top 6 forward at this point, and isn't a good fit in the bottom 6. he's sorta stuck in no mans land at this point in his career.
- sens rock

Why don't you think he's good enough for the top-6 just yet?(honest question)

Look at other guys his age who were given a shot after putting up similar numbers... Perry, Getzlaf, Ryan- they all stuck with the NHL.

I'm not saying he's gonna be as good as those guys, but Burke does have this history of keeping guys up after a solid start to their AHL careers.

The other thing to keep in mind is, even if he's not ready, it's a great learning experience, gives him an idea of what to work on. He credits his one-game stint last season with showing him exactly how much he needed to work on his skating, which he did all summer, and probably is the reason he's improved so much this year. Calling him up gives him the opportunity to a) see if his skating is where it needs to be, and b) see what other parts of his game he needs to work on.

Why don't you think he's good enough for the top-6 just yet?(honest question)

Look at other guys his age who were given a shot after putting up similar numbers... Perry, Getzlaf, Ryan- they all stuck with the NHL.

I'm not saying he's gonna be as good as those guys, but Burke does have this history of keeping guys up after a solid start to their AHL careers.

The other thing to keep in mind is, even if he's not ready, it's a great learning experience, gives him an idea of what to work on. He credits his one-game stint last season with showing him exactly how much he needed to work on his skating, which he did all summer, and probably is the reason he's improved so much this year. Calling him up gives him the opportunity to a) see if his skating is where it needs to be, and b) see what other parts of his game he needs to work on.
- Schenn-Sational!

I know he's improved since coming into the organization, but you honestly think he can step in a be a top 6 player right now? kadri struggles with it and he is a more talented player. I think his potential is to be a decent 2nd line centre, but that he going to have to work to get there by learning and spending some time on the bottom 2 lines to become a complete player.

I know he's improved since coming into the organization, but you honestly think he can step in a be a top 6 player right now? kadri struggles with it and he is a more talented player. I think his potential is to be a decent 2nd line centre, but that he going to have to work to get there by learning and spending some time on the bottom 2 lines to become a complete player.
- sens rock

Kadri doesn't struggle with it, Kadri struggles with being a 3rd liner, since the Leafs didn't give him a top-6 spot.

I don;t think he's ready to be a top-6 center full time, but for a short stint of games, I don't see why not.

The Leafs have his AHL winger on the 3rd line right now anyways, he should be played 50/50 with Bozak on the top line, half the time he gets to play with 2 guys who can score regardless of center, and the other half of the time, he plays with somebody who he's already got chemistry with.

Clearly you can't believe that somehow you know "my position" on any given topic, including how AHL experience does or does not translate into a player(s) future, or to the improvement of his NHL team should he make the NHL roster. That would be quite arrogant on your part.

My point, if memory serves me well, as it was way back before the draft, was that any good experience in the AHL, has to benefit the player(s) and or team in a positive sense. To what degree, you or I can never tell.

But it's not a hard stretch of logic to make, when you see players having success at winning at the junior level, the US College level or players that experience winning the WJHC that it is not a negative impact on their development.

Ottawa for example, currently has six players that experienced a great AHL playoff run last spring. This has to give them a leg up in getting them NHL ready over players on an AHL that failed to make the playoffs.

Ottawa has three players that receive a lot of PK time at the NHL, and they had a lot of the same, in their playoff run last spring. Killing penalties in the AHL playoffs is going to help those players make the transition to the NHL easier than those AHL that were playing golf at the same time.

You can't possibly say there is zero difference between a player putting and one logging a lot of time on the PP or the PK in the AHL playoffs.
- Doppleganger

I don't know your position on any given topic, but as I recall you talked at length about this particular one. If I wanted to, I could have pored over that 100 page topic, but I didn't. So I'm sorry for whatever arrogance may have stemmed from going from my memory of what you discussed at length there.

I think you may have misunderstood me and/or I misunderstood you. I really value team success for developing players. It's important for them to develop the psyche and work ethic that playoff hockey stimulates. If all you were saying was that being in the playoffs is great for their development versus not being in the playoffs, then I totally agree.

What I thought you were saying is that a farm team's success is evidence that their NHL affiliate has a better future or up and coming talent that a less successful farm team's NHL affiliate. I don't agree with this statement very much. In fact, team success as far as what it has to bear on the NHL team's future so much pales in comparison to - for example - individual AHL achievement that if we're discussing the depth of a team's prospects, their farm team's standings are practically irrelevant.

I.E. Binghamton Senators going deep in the playoffs is great for their young prospects versus them not going to the playoffs, but their team success has little to bear on a discussion of whether the Ottawa Senators have a better future then the Maple Leafs, the Oilers or the Blackhawks. A more productive body of evidence would be the successes of individual players from each team's prospect pool.

I don't know your position on any given topic, but as I recall you talked at length about this particular one. If I wanted to, I could have pored over that 100 page topic, but I didn't. So I'm sorry for whatever arrogance may have stemmed from going from my memory of what you discussed at length there.

I think you may have misunderstood me and/or I misunderstood you. I really value team success for developing players. It's important for them to develop the psyche and work ethic that playoff hockey stimulates. If all you were saying was that being in the playoffs is great for their development versus not being in the playoffs, then I totally agree.

What I thought you were saying is that a farm team's success is evidence that their NHL affiliate has a better future or up and coming talent that a less successful farm team's NHL affiliate. I don't agree with this statement very much. In fact, team success as far as what it has to bear on the NHL team's future so much pales in comparison to - for example - individual AHL achievement that if we're discussing the depth of a team's prospects, their farm team's standings are practically irrelevant.

I.E. Binghamton Senators going deep in the playoffs is great for their young prospects versus them not going to the playoffs, but their team success has little to bear on a discussion of whether the Ottawa Senators have a better future then the Maple Leafs, the Oilers or the Blackhawks. A more productive body of evidence would be the successes of individual players from each team's prospect pool.
- Morris

I don't know your position on any given topic, but as I recall you talked at length about this particular one. If I wanted to, I could have pored over that 100 page topic, but I didn't. So I'm sorry for whatever arrogance may have stemmed from going from my memory of what you discussed at length there.

I think you may have misunderstood me and/or I misunderstood you. I really value team success for developing players. It's important for them to develop the psyche and work ethic that playoff hockey stimulates. If all you were saying was that being in the playoffs is great for their development versus not being in the playoffs, then I totally agree.

What I thought you were saying is that a farm team's success is evidence that their NHL affiliate has a better future or up and coming talent that a less successful farm team's NHL affiliate. I don't agree with this statement very much. In fact, team success as far as what it has to bear on the NHL team's future so much pales in comparison to - for example - individual AHL achievement that if we're discussing the depth of a team's prospects, their farm team's standings are practically irrelevant.

I.E. Binghamton Senators going deep in the playoffs is great for their young prospects versus them not going to the playoffs, but their team success has little to bear on a discussion of whether the Ottawa Senators have a better future then the Maple Leafs, the Oilers or the Blackhawks. A more productive body of evidence would be the successes of individual players from each team's prospect pool.
- Morris

that's exactly what he was saying, right up until he changed his argument because even he realized how stupid he was being.

Clearly you can't believe that somehow you know "my position" on any given topic, including how AHL experience does or does not translate into a player(s) future, or to the improvement of his NHL team should he make the NHL roster. That would be quite arrogant on your part.

My point, if memory serves me well, as it was way back before the draft, was that any good experience in the AHL, has to benefit the player(s) and or team in a positive sense. To what degree, you or I can never tell.

But it's not a hard stretch of logic to make, when you see players having success at winning at the junior level, the US College level or players that experience winning the WJHC that it is not a negative impact on their development.

Ottawa for example, currently has six players that experienced a great AHL playoff run last spring. This has to give them a leg up in getting them NHL ready over players on an AHL that failed to make the playoffs.

Ottawa has three players that receive a lot of PK time at the NHL, and they had a lot of the same, in their playoff run last spring. Killing penalties in the AHL playoffs is going to help those players make the transition to the NHL easier than those AHL that were playing golf at the same time.

You can't possibly say there is zero difference between a player putting and one logging a lot of time on the PP or the PK in the AHL playoffs.
- Doppleganger

hershey (washington affiliate) has won the calder cup 3 times in the last 6 years and it hasn't helped their team or prospects at the nhl level.