For the last time, I'm not calling you a liar or trying to convince you of anything.

I'm just asking: Do you not find it odd that the statistics kept for the game indicate something completely different than what you saw?
And
would you agree that if there is an inconsistency between what you saw, and what was kept as statistical records, then the statistics are wrong?

Can you answer yes or no as the case may be to these two questions? I've only asked five times now.
- Morris

Spatso, a leaf fan, and I both watched the game, and both saw the same thing.

There has not been one person here in this forum, who also watched the game, who has disputed the plays made by Karlsson. That is because they can't, as they would have seen the same thing we did.

If it make you feel better to believe that becasue the stats don't show what we saw, then you can.

Those of us who actually saw the game know what we saw.

Spatso, a leaf fan, and I both watched the game, and both saw the same thing.

There has not been one person here in this forum, who also watched the game, who has disputed the plays made by Karlsson. That is because they can't, as they would have seen the same thing we did.

If it make you feel better to believe that becasue the stats don't show what we saw, then you can.

Those of us who actually saw the game know what we saw.
- Doppleganger

I really don't understand your reluctance to say that the stats were incorrect. Spatso has said as much.

I really don't understand your reluctance to say that the stats were incorrect. Spatso has said as much.
- Morris

Obviously the Stats for the Sens vs Caps game were incomplete in that they did not show the TO/TA that occurred a few times between Karlsson and OV, that is what both I and Spatso have been saying all along.


BTW, as I did not watch the Habs vs leafs game, and I cannot find (in the stats) why Reimer was removed from the game, can anyone provide a "stats" website link that has complete game stats for NHL games.

thanks

Obviously the Stats for the Sens vs Caps game were incomplete in that they did not show the TO/TA that occurred a few times between Karlsson and OV, that is what both I and Spatso have been saying all along.


BTW, as I did not watch the Habs vs leafs game, and I cannot find (in the stats) why Reimer was removed from the game, can anyone provide a "stats" website link that has complete game stats for NHL games.

thanks
- Doppleganger

NHL.com

NHL.com
- Schenn-Sational!

I've looked there, and can't seem to find the full stats package, I can find the Boxscore.

I've looked there, and can't seem to find the full stats package, I can find the Boxscore.
- Doppleganger

When you roll across the stats option from the boxscore , http://www.nhl.com/ice/boxscore.htm?id=2011020095, there should be a dropdown of several options, like the roster report, the play by play, the event summary, etc, etc... BAsically, everything you would ever want to know.

When you roll across the stats option from the boxscore , http://www.nhl.com/ice/boxscore.htm?id=2011020095, there should be a dropdown of several options, like the roster report, the play by play, the event summary, etc, etc... BAsically, everything you would ever want to know.
- prock

I've been to http://www.nhl.com/ice/boxscore.htm?id=2011020098
and still cannot find why Reimer was removed from the game. Was he pulled by the coach? Did he pull himself? Was he injured?

Obviously the Stats for the Sens vs Caps game were incomplete in that they did not show the TO/TA that occurred a few times between Karlsson and OV, that is what both I and Spatso have been saying all along.


BTW, as I did not watch the Habs vs leafs game, and I cannot find (in the stats) why Reimer was removed from the game, can anyone provide a "stats" website link that has complete game stats for NHL games.

thanks
- Doppleganger

When do incomplete stats become incorrect stats? Surely when something as striking as several Karlsson on Ovie takeaways don't get reported? How did they get the stats so wrong????

When do incomplete stats become incorrect stats? Surely when something as striking as several Karlsson on Ovie takeaways don't get reported? How did they get the stats so wrong????
- Morris

Who said " incomplete stats become incorrect stats"? I did not.

If something that happened in a game is not recorded in the Stats (and should have been), then they are incomplete.

For example, I can't find (in the stats) why Reimer was removed from last nights game. Should that have been in the stats? I don't know, but for some reason some people think that the Stats give the entire picture of what happened in any particular game.

I've been to http://www.nhl.com/ice/boxscore.htm?id=2011020098
and still cannot find why Reimer was removed from the game. Was he pulled by the coach? Did he pull himself? Was he injured?
- Doppleganger

Just read the recap and you'll find out

Who said " incomplete stats become incorrect stats"? I did not.

If something that happened in a game is not recorded in the Stats (and should have been), then they are incomplete.

For example, I can't find (in the stats) why Reimer was removed from last nights game. Should that have been in the stats? I don't know, but for some reason some people think that the Stats give the entire picture of what happened in any particular game.
- Doppleganger

Takeaways are a recorded stat, "reason for leaving game" isn't what one would call a stat

Takeaways are a recorded stat, "reason for leaving game" isn't what one would call a stat
- Schenn-Sational!

Doesn't reading the stats give one the complete picture of what happened in a game?

Who said " incomplete stats become incorrect stats"? I did not.

If something that happened in a game is not recorded in the Stats (and should have been), then they are incomplete.

For example, I can't find (in the stats) why Reimer was removed from last nights game. Should that have been in the stats? I don't know, but for some reason some people think that the Stats give the entire picture of what happened in any particular game.
- Doppleganger

So stats can never be incorrect, only incomplete?

Doesn't reading the stats give one the complete picture of what happened in a game?
- Doppleganger

Nope, but if 2 homers tell me a player scored a hat trick, but the stat-sheet says he didn't even take a shot on net, let alone score a goal... I'm gonna trust the stat sheet over the homers.

So stats can never be incorrect, only incomplete?
- Morris

Reading the Stats does NOT equal the actual viewing of the game.

There are many examples in everyday life that seeing some for ones self holds more weight than reading an account of it.

I saw what I saw, and have had what I saw confirmed by another who also watched the game, and I don't care what the "stats" tell you about the game, they are incomplete.

Reading the Stats does NOT equal the actual viewing of the game.

There are many examples in everyday life that seeing some for ones self holds more weight than reading an account of it.

I saw what I saw, and have had what I saw confirmed by another who also watched the game, and I don't care what the "stats" tell you about the game, they are incomplete.
- Doppleganger

So, was Kadri playing on the top line?

So, was Kadri playing on the top line?
- Schenn-Sational!

I never claimed he was.

I referenced a column that pointed out he was playing an average of 17 mins per game, during his first 17 games in the NHL last season, and did not score a goal, then was returned to the AHL.

You're trying to put words in my mouth, that I did not say, you know it and I know it.

I never claimed he was.

I referenced a column that pointed out he was playing an average of 17 mins per game, during his first 17 games in the NHL last season, and did not score a goal, then was returned to the AHL.

You're trying to put words in my mouth, that I did not say, you know it and I know it.
- Doppleganger

You're hilariously full of poop.

You're hilariously full of poop.
- Schenn-Sational!

prove it.

Reading the Stats does NOT equal the actual viewing of the game.

There are many examples in everyday life that seeing some for ones self holds more weight than reading an account of it.

I saw what I saw, and have had what I saw confirmed by another who also watched the game, and I don't care what the "stats" tell you about the game, they are incomplete.
- Doppleganger

You didn't answer my question: What is the difference between a set of statistics that is incomplete, and a set that is incorrect, in your mind?

prove it.
- Doppleganger

just keep typing

I never claimed he was.

I referenced a column that pointed out he was playing an average of 17 mins per game, during his first 17 games in the NHL last season, and did not score a goal, then was returned to the AHL.

You're trying to put words in my mouth, that I did not say, you know it and I know it.
- Doppleganger

Ok, not that it will settle this debate, but hopefully provide insight for both partied involved.

A person who watched a game gets a better idea of what happened than someone who only looks at the stats. The reason being that certain stats can be misleading, for example. A team that records 50 shots to another team that records 20. The team with 50 could have all shots taken from the perimeter, or non-scoring areas, while the 20 were all breakaways. Again, this can lead to the stats not reperesenting the whole picture.

That said, a person viewing a game that is bias for a particular team will not provide an acurate representation. Yes they will have a better view of what was going on in the game, but a lot of the time they only see what they want to.

The best way to represent what happened is a mixture of seeing the game itself, and using the stats to back-up your point.

Unfortunately Dopple, you have failed to do so. You are very opinionated, but lack the ability to strengthen your points through sound reasoning. I think this is the reason why you get into so many heated debates with others on this site.

You state 'Karlsson kept OV from getting shots all night', however it has already been pointed out that it was not the case. You now have the burdern of proof. Stating 'Well I saw it differently than the stats reflect' is not an argument of any kind. That just leads people to believe that you didn't see the real picture. There were so many things you could have stated:

1. "OV may have had a ton of shots, but they were all from terrible angles because Karlsson didn't let him get any quality chances'
2. "Whenever OV broke in on Karlsson's side, he was stopped, but he quickly learned to head the other direction. Karlsson did not have an opportunity to stop him"
3. "The offence was so terrible that the Caps were in Ottawa's zone all game.. The 7 shots that OV shoudl have been far more were it not for Karlsson"

etc...

If you learn to address the point of the argument, you would have far less people 'target' you in your responses. Just my 2 cents.

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So now you believe "Stats" but not when Kadri's first 17 NHL games showed him to be getting top 6 minutes and did not score a single goal..
- Doppleganger

heh

You didn't answer my question: What is the difference between a set of statistics that is incomplete, and a set that is incorrect, in your mind?
- Morris

What is the difference between a full carton of eggs, and one that is missing a few eggs?