sorry if someone posted this article before -
http://www.canescountry.c...e-has-history-on-its-side

i wouldn't do this.
- wilsonecho91

hahah, they would have to throw in their 1st rounder to even think about it

This is going to turn into a bashing JVR thing, but we have not seen his skill every night.

Even when he has not been injured, he has looked like poop many nights. Effort and work ethic included.

I'll stop here because I think JVR is a good and promising player, but I am not going to overvalue him.
- flyer_nutter

Power Forwards take longer to develop and put all the tools together. John LeClair took longer to get it together. Scott Hartnell. Mike Knuble. JvR was second overall in his draft and Schenn fifth.Big picture for me, Giroux and Schenn could be the next Datsyuk and Zetterberg or Forsberg and Sakic.

Apparently it doesn't matter. Potential = maybe. A few good games = maybe. Having the team sign you to a 6-year deal = maybe. Trading your franchise center for a top prospect = maybe.

Either way these guys wanna downplay what we have seen/know about JVR/Schenn, they will continue to call them maybes. The team is young and getting younger. Why lose 2 potential 1st liners for a #1 defenseman? There is free agency, drafting, etc....
- steelydan

You just answered your own question, and the last post I will make on this debate.

POTENTIAL first liners for a #1 d-man. A position that wins you cups. Guys like Chara, Lindstrom, Pronger win you cups. Weber is a top 3-dman in the league who can play 25+ minutes a night, and is in his prime. Guys like that DO NOT come up very often. You can hope and pray you find them in a draft but I doubt the Flyers will be finding one any time soon.

Guys like that also dont make it to free agency often, and when they do they get overpaid like crazy.

Defense wins you championships.

I could care less if JVR or ANY PLAYER is signed for 6 years. Shelley was signed to how many?

Well than your not getting Weber so lets wait til the offseason to go after Suter.
- stveshdy

Because the Flyers are going to be the only team making him an offer, and we have so much cap that we can afford to get into a bidding war... OK.

he wanted to come back that game. lol, Tambellini had to tell him no.
- GuyLaDouche

he's a hockey player.
they are all a bit nuts.

Power Forwards take longer to develop and put all the tools together. John LeClair took longer to get it together. Scott Hartnell. Mike Knuble. JvR was second overall in his draft and Schenn fifth.Big picture for me, Giroux and Schenn could be the next Datsyuk and Zetterberg or Forsberg and Sakic.
- Schenn2shine

Exactly right.

They could be.

Weber is already established and proven.

Agreed. I don't get giving up a ton of assets when you still have a chance in the offseason to get the same players.
- funmaster18

Detroit knows the value of having a stud #1 d-man and will go as hard at Suter as any team in the league. Not to forget about the rest of the teams in the league that will look at him.

The price of Suter in the off-season will be inflated because of this.

That's my point. Would I rather have: Weber OR Suter+JVR+Schenn.

I'm going with option #2 every day of the week.
- steelydan

I dont disagree. If Suter hits the open market you may have to overpay to get the deal done.

Power Forwards take longer to develop and put all the tools together. John LeClair took longer to get it together. Scott Hartnell. Mike Knuble. JvR was second overall in his draft and Schenn fifth.Big picture for me, Giroux and Schenn could be the next Datsyuk and Zetterberg or Forsberg and Sakic.
- Schenn2shine

I love the optimism!

Meet Hugh Jessiman, 12th pick. Or Pavel Brendl top 5. Or Alexandre Daigle top 5.
- bodiva88

yes. exactly as I said. ty.

Coburn for Zhitnik.
- MBFlyerfan

Because the Flyers are going to be the only team making him an offer, and we have so much cap that we can afford to get into a bidding war... OK.
- RooNosHockey

Not at all. I dont think going after Suter in the offseason will be a slamdunk. Their going to have to overpay for him as multiple teams will be bidding for his services.

1. They MIGHT be great.
2. Weber is ALREADY great.
3. We already have Couturier, Giroux, Read, Simmonds, and Voracek... all under 25.
4. Pronger might never play again, Timonen might retire after next season, and we might not have Carle back.

We wouldnt be giving up on anything. We would be trading potential stars for a current star. Schenn and JVR could go on to be future hall of famers, but that wont matter to Flyers fans if Weber comes here and wins the cup.
- RooNosHockey

It's all about the future. You're just down playing what we have.

define "orders"

and are you implying that people take "orders" from me in the isles thread?
- LetsGoIsles

I don't know, I've never been. How's the weather over there?

Here's one thing that I haven't heard anyone comment on. What we really need from Nashville is their defensive scouting director.

Timmonen
Hamhuis
Weber
Suter

Go get the individual that drafted these studs and put them in charge of Flyers scouting.
- bgratch

timonen was drafted by LA

he's a hockey player.
they are all a bit nuts.
- Marc D

Can't wait for that episode of oil.change.

If I was the Nashville GM, any talk with the Flyers for Weber would start with Giroux.

I like Jvr and Schenn, but I wonder if that is enough for a franchise #1 defenseman these days.
- Marc D

depends on how likely you are to retain him.

we dont want to down play these guys. Maybe you dont understand the value of a guy like Weber.

Its simple economics. You have excess of a given commodity, and not enough of another. What do you do? You trade your excess for your needs.
- RooNosHockey

The Flyers are perennial contenders. It's luck that we even ended up with these "commodities", as you put them.

Trading Richards (considered untouchable) for a Schenn? That will never happen again.

Flyers tanking and drafting JVR 2nd overall? That will never happen again

Trading Carter (another untouchable) for Couts? That will never happen again.


These commodities weren't just "handed" to us. The Flyers had to pay a price for each one, and I don't see us having this sort of "excess' of young talent in the near future.

As I've said. Pronger is either back or off the books next year. From there, you sign a Suter or other top Defenseman.

I may not know Weber as well as everyone else here, so it seems. But you tell me. What's better: Suter+JVR+Schenn+1st round, or Weber.....

Coburn for Zhitnik.
- MBFlyerfan

I feel like the carter trade might turn out better

If I was the Nashville GM, any talk with the Flyers for Weber would start with Giroux.

I like Jvr and Schenn, but I wonder if that is enough for a franchise #1 defenseman these days.
- Marc D

and this gets ignored. if he trades Weber, Id say more than a few teams would beat that offer.

timonen was drafted by LA
- nastyflyergirl

IN THE 10TH ROUND

if he was so highly thought of by scouts, he wouldn't have lasted until the 10th round. shot in the dark.

Exactly right.

They could be.

Weber is already established and proven.
- flyer_nutter

I'm not against getting Weber, I never said I was. I'm against giving up certain players to getting Weber. I think it's a big mistake. We've had plenty of established stars in a Flyers jersey, who have failed to get the job done for us.

Power Forwards take longer to develop and put all the tools together. John LeClair took longer to get it together. Scott Hartnell. Mike Knuble. JvR was second overall in his draft and Schenn fifth.Big picture for me, Giroux and Schenn could be the next Datsyuk and Zetterberg or Forsberg and Sakic.
- Schenn2shine

LeClair also had Lindros, Knuble had Forsberg, and Hartnell had Giroux... Not trying to put those guys down, but Weber doesnt need anyone else to be great, he makes the guys around him better.

The Flyers are perennial contenders. It's luck that we even ended up with these "commodities", as you put them.

Trading Richards (considered untouchable) for a Schenn? That will never happen again.

Flyers tanking and drafting JVR 2nd overall? That will never happen again

Trading Carter (another untouchable) for Couts? That will never happen again.


These commodities weren't just "handed" to us. The Flyers had to pay a price for each one, and I don't see us having this sort of "excess' of young talent in the near future.

As I've said. Pronger is either back or off the books next year. From there, you sign a Suter or other top Defenseman.

I may not know Weber as well as everyone else here, so it seems. But you tell me. What's better: Suter+JVR+Schenn+1st round, or Weber.....
- steelydan

JvR+Schenn for Weber. I wouldnt give up any picks if I am offering these two players. Unless were are trading picks.

If I was the Nashville GM, any talk with the Flyers for Weber would start with Giroux.

I like Jvr and Schenn, but I wonder if that is enough for a franchise #1 defenseman these days.
- Marc D

If I was the Nashville GM, I would trade Weber for a 3rd round pick to the Flyers. And then I would fire myself and join the Flyers staff, because I am a Flyers fan.