I don't want to make this sound like I dislike Simmonds but the truth is, I love Wayne Simmonds. However, there was never a need to force chemistry with Briere. For most of the first half of the season they played together and nothing ever came of that. In my opinion, keeping Briere and Simmonds together for so long forced a juggling act because Simmonds was wanted in the top 6. I could be wrong but just my view.
- Schenn2shine

I'm not saying you are wrong. I don't really like Simmonds with Briere, either. I liked that Read-Couturier-Simmonds line from the other night.

Hartnell at 4.2 right now is a bargain. He signed that deal 5 Seasons ago including the current one. And Holmgren signed JVR to essentially the same deal 5 years later. If JVR becomes what they think he'll be, it's a good deal.
- MJL

He's a bargain? Disagree with that wholeheartedly... last year the word "bargain" was never used to describe scott...

I love him. 4.2 is about all he's ever going to make.

Hartnell at 4.2 right now is a bargain. He signed that deal 5 Seasons ago including the current one. And Holmgren signed JVR to essentially the same deal 5 years later. If JVR becomes what they think he'll be, it's a good deal.
- MJL

I agree. I think it's unlikely we pick up Weber. I see the importance of Giroux, JvR, Schenn, Couturier, Simmonds, Read and Voracek.

If he somehow figures his crap out and starts playing the way he can play... and becomes a super star.. then we'll be saving some cap for a while.

If he doesn't, then we're not saving any cap.
- archion113

The thing is, a lot of the same issues dogged John LeClair when he was a Canadien. Too soft, doesn't use his size well, doesn't go to the dirty areas often enough....I mean, LeClair was 24 or 25 when he got traded here and flourished with Lindros. JvR is 22.

Yep. I was running next to his bike in Avalon with a sign...all of the sudden he wasn't next to me anymore
- Jsaquella

lol

I agree. I think it's unlikely we pick up Weber. I see the importance of Giroux, JvR, Schenn, Couturier, Simmonds, Read and Voracek.
- Schenn2shine

And if Hartnell continues to play at this level, he's going to earn a substantial raise in the future. He will be a well sought out commodity in Free Agency.

I'm not saying you are wrong. I don't really like Simmonds with Briere, either. I liked that Read-Couturier-Simmonds line from the other night.
- Jsaquella

I also like that line. It's nice to finally see Couturier be more then a defensive forward. I think we all knew he has an offensive touch but it wasn't going to happen on the 4th line with 4th line players. I would even consider Couturier on the PP. Down low, up top replacing JvR. Either way doesn't matter to me. He's earned it.

He's a bargain? Disagree with that wholeheartedly... last year the word "bargain" was never used to describe scott...

I love him. 4.2 is about all he's ever going to make.
- archion113

Well this year he's underpaid if anything. His numbers are at the top of the league among wingers. I don't care who he plays with, you still have to make plays and do the work and score the goals.

Well this year he's underpaid if anything. His numbers are at the top of the league among wingers. I don't care who he plays with, you still have to make plays and do the work and score the goals.
- eayost

With the way he is playing right now, 4.2 is a steal for Hartnell.

The thing is, a lot of the same issues dogged John LeClair when he was a Canadien. Too soft, doesn't use his size well, doesn't go to the dirty areas often enough....I mean, LeClair was 24 or 25 when he got traded here and flourished with Lindros. JvR is 22.
- Jsaquella

John put up slightly better numbers this early in his career... we all know power forwards take longer to develop.. but is he really a power forward in the nhl?

I haven't seen much "power" to his game...

And if Hartnell continues to play at this level, he's going to earn a substantial raise in the future. He will be a well sought out commodity in Free Agency.
- MJL

I'd offer him 5 but nothing more then that. Maybe something along the lines of what Carter signed for.

John put up slightly better numbers this early in his career... we all know power forwards take longer to develop.. but is he really a power forward in the nhl?

I haven't seen much "power" to his game...
- archion113

I agree. His offense looks like a bigger Simon Gagne who doesn't play much D.

I'd offer him 5 but nothing more then that. Maybe something along the lines of what Carter signed for.
- Schenn2shine

You got Carter for 5M because it was an 11 year deal. If Hartnell's play continues at this level, unless your signing him to a deal like that, you won't get him for 5M.

Well this year he's underpaid if anything. His numbers are at the top of the league among wingers. I don't care who he plays with, you still have to make plays and do the work and score the goals.
- eayost

I agree. This is also the best year he's ever had in his career.

I don't ever want to see Hartnell leave. I just think he's the best he's ever going to be right now. He won't make more than 4.2 a year. Not here at least.

You got Carter for 5M because it was an 11 year deal. If Hartnell's play continues at this level, unless your signing him to a deal like that, you won't get him for 5M.
- MJL

I think Hartnell is only 29 now. So when his contract is up, he'll still be a solid player.

I think thats overboard. When it comes to things like this don't listen to MJL. He's also the guy who said Carter would NEVER sign for a hometown discount and his cap hit would be around 7m per season.
- archion113

And Randy Jones was worth 2.75m

I think thats overboard. When it comes to things like this don't listen to MJL. He's also the guy who said Carter would NEVER sign for a hometown discount and his cap hit would be around 7m per season.
- archion113

Incorrect. What I said was in a 5 year deal, Carter could get as much as 7M a year in salary. Go look at his deal, and see what his Cap hit would have been for the first 5 years of his deal. And realize why his Cap hit is where it is. Players negotiate for salary, not Cap hit.

I think Hartnell is only 29 now. So when his contract is up, he'll still be a solid player.
- Schenn2shine

He'll be 31 when he becomes a free agent... i don't see him getting more than what he's getting now.

Incorrect. What I said was in a 5 year deal, Carter could get as much as 7M a year in salary. Go look at his deal, and see what his Cap hit would have been for the first 5 years of his deal.

Now I'll go back to using the ignore feature.
- MJL

Thats not what you said.

Nice try though

Makes me mad seeing Chara's cap hit at 6.9... Timonen is very close in cap hit... woulda loved to have Chara...

Wasn't in the cards i know... but his cap hit is a steal

Incorrect. What I said was in a 5 year deal, Carter could get as much as 7M a year in salary. Go look at his deal, and see what his Cap hit would have been for the first 5 years of his deal.

Now I'll go back to using the ignore feature.
- MJL

Ignore feature? Isn't that what you do everytime someone proves you wrong?

John put up slightly better numbers this early in his career... we all know power forwards take longer to develop.. but is he really a power forward in the nhl?

I haven't seen much "power" to his game...
- archion113

Not really. As a 20 year old, JvR had 15 G, 20 A in 78 games. LeClair didn't even make his NHL debut until age 21, and didn't have more than 19 goals until he was age 25.

Also, the tail end of the big offense era was ending during LeClair's first couple seasons. The season the Habs won the Cup, there were only two goalies with a GAA under 3.00. That was the year that he first scored 19 goals.

I guess I'm just saying that he's having a similar career arc. I wonder if Giroux could be his Lindros.

Not really. As a 20 year old, JvR had 15 G, 20 A in 78 games. LeClair didn't even make his NHL debut until age 21, and didn't have more than 19 goals until he was age 25.

Also, the tail end of the big offense era was ending during LeClair's first couple seasons. The season the Habs won the Cup, there were only two goalies with a GAA under 3.00. That was the year that he first scored 19 goals.

I guess I'm just saying that he's having a similar career arc. I wonder if Giroux could be his Lindros.
- Jsaquella

I'm not saying i disagree with the stats.. i disagree with who we're comparing him to.

I don't think JvR is a power forward.

whAT a pass from cole

I'm not saying i disagree with the stats.. i disagree with who we're comparing him to.

I don't think JvR is a power forward.
- archion113

OK, but what I was saying was that a lot of the criticisms that JvR is getting now, especially not being physical enough or using his size as well as he should be, we also laid on LeClair when he was a Hab.

Too soft, doesn't go to the net all the time, not a good skater...all that was said about LeClair when he was in Montreal.