It's cool bro it's an open discussion. The Flyers may be young and promising with a lot of potential for the future. But in my opinion they're a top line winger and a defenseman away from a cup. The team they put on the ice now simply can't compete with Boston or the Rangers. They lack elite talent besides Giroux. I'm not content with them not trying to win right now like they do EVERY year.
- TonyBazz

But the "win each year at all cost" model of management has not yielded a cup. Period.

Time to be more patient and build on this incredible trove of talented and seemingly mature youth.

and who would you give up to get one of these guys? Remember you need to cut salary to acquire salary.
- phi1671

Voracek and or JVR plus Schenn and a pick for Nash or B Ryan. This is all in theory, not saying it would happen but that would be my proposal. Schenn and JVR or Voracek and a pick

The Flyers need to make a trade sooner rather than later. Their defense is soft, and lackluster. Other teams finally realized the Flyers have almost become a one line team, if that. You shut down the Giroux line, you beat the Flyers. Briere and Jagr are winding down and clearly don't have a lot left in the tank. Not enough to be effective for 82 games and the playoffs. I wouldn't know where to begin fixing it either. They need another top line forward, and another physical defenseman or two if this team wants to compete with the Rangers and the Bruins or even the Penguins when they're healthy. As a Flyers fan I haven't felt this hopeless in a while. Even when the Flyers finished as a 7th seed a couple years back I was optimistic about the team because they were so talented in every area and had unlimited upside because of it. This team's best case scenario is making the playoffs and winning a round. It sucks to know just how far the Flyers have fallen behind the elite teams in the conference. Make a trade Holmgren before its too late!
- TonyBazz

C'mon Tony...it's not that bad at all. The Flyers are in 4th place in the conference and still are one of the highest scoring teams in the league. I think you're jumping the gun here a bit. Yes, we are all frustrated over how they played last night, but it's certainly not as bleak as you're making it out to be. Hang in there cuz.

It's cool bro it's an open discussion. The Flyers may be young and promising with a lot of potential for the future. But in my opinion they're a top line winger and a defenseman away from a cup. The team they put on the ice now simply can't compete with Boston or the Rangers. They lack elite talent besides Giroux. I'm not content with them not trying to win right now like they do EVERY year.
- TonyBazz

The rangers and Bruins dont really have elite talent either, they play more of a team game. Sure they have Chara, Lundquist, and Gaborik, but we have Giroux, Bryzgalov, and Timonen... We just need our stars playing better.

It's cool bro it's an open discussion. The Flyers may be young and promising with a lot of potential for the future. But in my opinion they're a top line winger and a defenseman away from a cup. The team they put on the ice now simply can't compete with Boston or the Rangers. They lack elite talent besides Giroux. I'm not content with them not trying to win right now like they do EVERY year.
- TonyBazz

Right now, they have about $3.7mm in LTIR cushion room-that's for a full season hit. So without trading a roster player they can fit a guy with around that cap hit.

Not a lot of room to fit a top line winger and defenseman with the existing space.

Granted you could trade roster players, but then you have to replace them in the line-up.

I'm not saying to simply stand pat, or write this year off. But be prudent. Don't shoot your wad to have a 10% better chance this year, when it hurts your chances next year.

Also, who knows what will be in the new CBA? What if there's a tweak that only allows a portion of a contract on LTIR? Then they might not be able to carry their prized new addition. Too many varibles right now. They have a good young team. let them grow together.

I'm more annoyed at Giroux and Jagr's defensive game than their offensive game right now. On that first Isles goal, WTF was Jagr doing? He came back on the backcheck and skated to the circle and stopped. meanwhile the trailer picked up the puck and of course scored untouched. Giroux is forcing the puck in the offensive zone and has been terrible in the defensive zone.
- nastyflyergirl

Not just Giroux and Jagr...more like 75% of the team. I saw a crap ton of lazy play last night and found myself yelling at the TV. I just hope that all the hype hasn't gone to G's head. His play is 180 degrees than what it was a month ago. Did he find Carter's black book in the locker room?

The rangers and Bruins dont really have elite talent either, they play more of a team game. Sure they have Chara, Lundquist, and Gaborik, but we have Giroux, Bryzgalov, and Timonen... We just need our stars playing better.
- RooNosHockey

Rangers and Bruins both have elite talent in goal. On top of that, they play great team defense, which is a pretty good combination.

trade trade trade get out the ps7
- Duane B

Right now, they have about $3.7mm in LTIR cushion room-that's for a full season hit. So without trading a roster player they can fit a guy with around that cap hit.

Not a lot of room to fit a top line winger and defenseman with the existing space.

Granted you could trade roster players, but then you have to replace them in the line-up.

I'm not saying to simply stand pat, or write this year off. But be prudent. Don't shoot your wad to have a 10% better chance this year, when it hurts your chances next year.

Also, who knows what will be in the new CBA? What if there's a tweak that only allows a portion of a contract on LTIR? Then they might not be able to carry their prized new addition. Too many varibles right now. They have a good young team. let them grow together.
- Jsaquella

I can see for a depth Dman that has been beaten to death, I know what Dmen you mentioned and dont need to be mentioned again. If we can trade for a very young solid Dman than re-sign him for a favorable deal then id be fine with it

Hmm. He's even cuter.


- bodiva88

just wait until he takes a puck to the eye or a skate blade over his whole face.

C'mon Tony...it's not that bad at all. The Flyers are in 4th place in the conference and still are one of the highest scoring teams in the league. I think you're jumping the gun here a bit. Yes, we are all frustrated over how they played last night, but it's certainly not as bleak as you're making it out to be. Hang in there cuz.
- Flyer_Nation71

Bingo. Caught looking ahead to two big games this weekend. The Islanders were the worst possible opponent last night. A team that has been playing fairly well, with a hot goaltender, a team the Flyers have beaten 26 of the last 28 times they played them.
Doesn't excuse the effort, but that is the reason. Nothing more, nothing less.

Voracek and or JVR plus Schenn and a pick for Nash or B Ryan. This is all in theory, not saying it would happen but that would be my proposal. Schenn and JVR or Voracek and a pick
- TonyBazz

you will still need to fill the roster if you get Nash to his cap hit. They are always in cap hell...

I understand the frustration but add some patience to this. they finally got younger, they need time to develop and we are lucky they are winning.

I can see for a depth Dman that has been beaten to death, I know what Dmen you mentioned and dont need to be mentioned again. If we can trade for a very young solid Dman than re-sign him for a favorable deal then id be fine with it
- bigmookalookie

They have options, I just want them to be smart. 15 smaller fish will feed your family longer than 1 big one.

It has a lot to do with that, the longer a line is together, the more tape and scouting reports scouts have to put together a game plan to beat them. And when 3 guys had a lot of sucess doing things a certain way, and that way is taken away from them, they either have to find a different way to play through the apdapted defense, or the line needs broken up.

IMO the Flyers have given the G line long enough to try and adapt. Switch up the lines for a bit, see if you can get other guys going and maybe go back tot he G line later on when you need it.
- RooNosHockey

It's Hockey. There is nothing earth shattering or new offensive strategy that any line is going to use that a team needs to see a bunch of video to finally figure out to play them defensively. Lines are together and successful together year after year. What the Giroux line was successful at hasn't been taken away from them. They aren't doing what they were doing when the were successful.

I have no problem switching up lines and seeing what happens. But it's not because the rest of the League has finally figured out how to play them. That's not the reality.

Making a trade just for the sake of change rarely works.
- Jsaquella

Agreed, especially after an off season in which we've shifted from an "all in" approach to a "restock and develop" one.

I'm more annoyed at Giroux and Jagr's defensive game than their offensive game right now. On that first Isles goal, WTF was Jagr doing? He came back on the backcheck and skated to the circle and stopped. meanwhile the trailer picked up the puck and of course scored untouched. Giroux is forcing the puck in the offensive zone and has been terrible in the defensive zone.
- nastyflyergirl

right there with you...if you're not scoring you need to make sure you're not getting scored on.

Agreed, especially after an off season in which we've shifted from an "all in" approach to a "restock and develop" one.
- BulliesPhan87

i think overall the team is fine. We all want our team to win the cup and it's frustrated to see a lack of effort. But it's a marathon not a sprint...

It's Hockey. There is nothing earth shattering or new offensive strategy that any line is going to use that a team needs to see a bunch of video to finally figure out to play them defensively. Lines are together and successful together year after year. What the Giroux line was successful at hasn't been taken away from them. They aren't doing what they were doing when the were successful.

I have no problem switching up lines and seeing what happens. But it's not because the rest of the League has finally figured out how to play them. That's not the reality.
- MJL

Key to offense, in pretty much every team sport, is adapting to what the defense gives you.

The Giroux line isn't doing that. They're forcing things. They're trying to make high risk plays. Giroux seems like he's trying to will the puck to Jagr, despite the coverage. They're pressing, as well, which compounds the issue.

As for juggling lines, maybe playing with Voracek and Read allows Giroux to just focus on his game and not force things as much as he has been.

I never said Briere needs to be traded and I've always had faith in him...until lately.  I'm not saying he's done either but he is close.  I don't see him being a top two line player for much longer is what I'm saying.  I think next year he'll be in a lesser role.  And Jagr is out of gas on a lot of nights.  Same deal with him, good now but for how much longer?  And do you really see Voracek, Simmonds, Reed,  or JVR ever being a top line 30 plus goal scorer?  I don't see that.  This team is not good enough to win anything right now, which doesn't sit well with most Flyers fans.  Acquiring a guy like Rick Nash or Bobby Ryan would put them right back in the race though.
- TonyBazz

Rick Nash or Bobby Ryan doesn't put them back in the race. That's the last thing they should do. Briere isn't close to being done. Jagr will pick his game back up again. Yes, I see JVR developing into a 30 goal scorer. He was on that pace before he got injured. Read is scoring at close to a 30 goal pace this Season. Voracek and Simmonds are solid depth Wingers. All of those players are going to get better and better. Did you really expect them to be a Cup team this year?

you will still need to fill the roster if you get Nash to his cap hit. They are always in cap hell...

I understand the frustration but add some patience to this. they finally got younger, they need time to develop and we are lucky they are winning.
- phi1671

JVR and Schenn make a combined 7 mil plus they're already wayy under the cap even before the Captain went down. Cap space is not an issue right now. And yea guys I know it's hard to question Holmgren and Snider and Laviolette etc, but that's a bunch of garbage the Flyers are sticking to this young team at all costs. You really think that's Ed Snider's approach? Get real. If there's a deal that the Flyers could make that would put them back with the elites, I'm pretty sure Mr Snider would jump all over it.

Agreed, especially after an off season in which we've shifted from an "all in" approach to a "restock and develop" one.
- BulliesPhan87

Exactly. Running out now and trading two or three youngsters, plus picks for Weber, is just another abrupt and shattering course change.

i think overall the team is fine. We all want our team to win the cup and it's frustrated to see a lack of effort. But it's a marathon not a sprint...
- phi1671

Well put

JVR and Schenn make a combined 7 mil plus they're already wayy under the cap even before the Captain went down. Cap space is not an issue right now. And yea guys I know it's hard to question Holmgren and Snider and Laviolette etc, but that's a bunch of garbage the Flyers are sticking to this young team at all costs. You really think that's Ed Snider's approach? Get real. If there's a deal that the Flyers could make that would put them back with the elites, I'm pretty sure Mr Snider would jump all over it.
- TonyBazz

The combined cap hits of JvR and Schenn is just over $3mm. JvR's new deal doesn't kick in until next year and Schenn's hit is around $1.7 after he started the season in the AHL and couldn't achieve all his bonuses.

Before Pronger wnet down, the Flyers were over the cap. They had room because of the LTIR exemptions of Lappy, Betts and Lilja.

They have options, I just want them to be smart. 15 smaller fish will feed your family longer than 1 big one.
- Jsaquella

I agree as well. I dont think Homer will ruin this team or trade away more young prospects

Voracek and or JVR plus Schenn and a pick for Nash or B Ryan. This is all in theory, not saying it would happen but that would be my proposal. Schenn and JVR or Voracek and a pick
- TonyBazz

Offense is not high on the Flyers list of issues right now.