I do agree with you that there is no way I traded JvR straight up for Schenn. Toronto would have to give me more. If not Ill keep JvR and try my best to acquire Weber. If I dont get him either, Ill still have a very good player in JvR.
- stveshdy

I could do L.Schenn and Toronto's first for JVR and either a 2nd or 3rd. COnsidering how deep this years draft is, it would be nice to have 2 first round picks.. Plus you have Schenn who is young, and get to match him with his brother, which can only increase moral...

I do agree with you that there is no way I traded JvR straight up for Schenn. Toronto would have to give me more. If not Ill keep JvR and try my best to acquire Weber. If I dont get him either, Ill still have a very good player in JvR.
- stveshdy

Right now, L. Schenn is the 6th dman for an average at best Toronto team. He's routinely last in ice time, I think there is very little chance he becomes a top pairing shut down dman. Most likely his ceiling is a second pairing guy. I'm not giving up a potential 30 goal scorer for that. If Toronto adds someone to the package, then it might change my opinion.

yea but you still have junk defense in front of your goalie who you paid a ton for 9 years
- 2Real

You can always upgrade the defense through UFA or trades during the summer. If JvR is part of a deal then so be it. Depends on the return that will determine who I would trade.

Right now, L. Schenn is the 6th dman for an average at best Toronto team. He's routinely last in ice time, I think there is very little chance he becomes a top pairing shut down dman. Most likely his ceiling is a second pairing guy. I'm not giving up a potential 30 goal scorer for that. If Toronto adds someone to the package, then it might change my opinion.
- PLindbergh31

Right now, L. Schenn is the 6th dman for an average at best Toronto team. He's routinely last in ice time, I think there is very little chance he becomes a top pairing shut down dman. Most likely his ceiling is a second pairing guy. I'm not giving up a potential 30 goal scorer for that. If Toronto adds someone to the package, then it might change my opinion.
- PLindbergh31

I feel Luke Schenn has the tools to be something more then a 3 pair guy. For me I view Luke Schenn as a 2nd to 4th Dman. Nothing more, nothing less. I agree with the rest.

Right now, L. Schenn is the 6th dman for an average at best Toronto team. He's routinely last in ice time, I think there is very little chance he becomes a top pairing shut down dman. Most likely his ceiling is a second pairing guy. I'm not giving up a potential 30 goal scorer for that. If Toronto adds someone to the package, then it might change my opinion.
- PLindbergh31

I agree. The only difference is we know it takes a defenseman longer to develop in the NHL. So I dont want to be unfair to Schenn but what you posted is accurate based on his play this year.

I agree. The only difference is we know it takes a defenseman longer to develop in the NHL. So I dont want to be unfair to Schenn but what you posted is accurate based on his play this year.
- stveshdy

I agree.

I think he can take Klinger... Even if someone already has klinger... you can do Klinger in GI gear, and Dress Klinger....
- RooNosHockey

Right now, L. Schenn is the 6th dman for an average at best Toronto team. He's routinely last in ice time, I think there is very little chance he becomes a top pairing shut down dman. Most likely his ceiling is a second pairing guy. I'm not giving up a potential 30 goal scorer for that. If Toronto adds someone to the package, then it might change my opinion.
- PLindbergh31

L.Schenn is 22. It takes Defenseman much longer to develop into sturdy players. I think he does have the ability to be a top defender. Maybe not top 5 in the league, but he could be a 1 or 2 in 3-4 years... Being paired with a guy like Timonen could only help the kid too. I think L.Schenn + for JVR is more of a lateral move, your just trading what you have in excess for what your short on.

L.Schenn is 22. It takes Defenseman much longer to develop into sturdy players. I think he does have the ability to be a top defender. Maybe not top 5 in the league, but he could be a 1 or 2 in 3-4 years... Being paired with a guy like Timonen could only help the kid too. I think L.Schenn + for JVR is more of a lateral move, your just trading what you have in excess for what your short on.
- RooNosHockey

I like him and i dont think we would miss JVR much .....

I agree. The only difference is we know it takes a defenseman longer to develop in the NHL. So I dont want to be unfair to Schenn but what you posted is accurate based on his play this year.
- stveshdy

Agreed. The way for him to develop isn't giving more minutes to slugs like Mike Komisarek. Why is Toronto hiding the kid instead of letting him develop?

L.Schenn is 22. It takes Defenseman much longer to develop into sturdy players. I think he does have the ability to be a top defender. Maybe not top 5 in the league, but he could be a 1 or 2 in 3-4 years... Being paired with a guy like Timonen could only help the kid too. I think L.Schenn + for JVR is more of a lateral move, your just trading what you have in excess for what your short on.
- RooNosHockey

Schenn+ for JvR is something to really consider if your the Flyers.

L.Schenn is 22. It takes Defenseman much longer to develop into sturdy players. I think he does have the ability to be a top defender. Maybe not top 5 in the league, but he could be a 1 or 2 in 3-4 years... Being paired with a guy like Timonen could only help the kid too. I think L.Schenn + for JVR is more of a lateral move, your just trading what you have in excess for what your short on.
- RooNosHockey

While I agree, I feel JvR's potential is much greater then Luke Schenn's. JvR has what it takes to be the next John LeClair or as I stated last night Johan Franzon. Schenn on the other hand in my opinion will never touch what Shea Weber or what Ryan Suter can do. Maybe I could be wrong but these days it seems to me the offense comes much quicker then the defense from young players.

L.Schenn is 22. It takes Defenseman much longer to develop into sturdy players. I think he does have the ability to be a top defender. Maybe not top 5 in the league, but he could be a 1 or 2 in 3-4 years... Being paired with a guy like Timonen could only help the kid too. I think L.Schenn + for JVR is more of a lateral move, your just trading what you have in excess for what your short on.
- RooNosHockey

I prefer adding a dman in Free Agency, instead of dealing assets that will create holes in the lineup. If healthy, JVR is a top 6 forward, he would likely have 20+ goals right now if he hadn't been injured and this JVR for L. Schenn stuff wouldn't even come up.

L.Schenn is 22. It takes Defenseman much longer to develop into sturdy players. I think he does have the ability to be a top defender. Maybe not top 5 in the league, but he could be a 1 or 2 in 3-4 years... Being paired with a guy like Timonen could only help the kid too. I think L.Schenn + for JVR is more of a lateral move, your just trading what you have in excess for what your short on.
- RooNosHockey

Plus if you take one of your 2nds or 3rds and get toronto's first, then you have 2 first round picks in a deep year of drafts... Last time there was a draft this deep and the Flyers had 2 picks they got these guys named Richards and Carter...

I can totally see them picking a Defensman with thier first pick, and a Forward for their second first rounder...

Then you have Schenn 22, plus the Defensman pick, plus a future replacement for JVR when briere or Hartnell are gone...

Dustin Leed

Wayne Simmonds compared to Mike Richards right now, how it stands: Simmonds: 13 goals, 14 assists 27 points in 48 games and 15:55 of ice time; Richards: 14 goals, 12 assists 26 points in 42 games and 19:15 of ice time.

Dustin Leed

Wayne Simmonds compared to Mike Richards right now, how it stands: Simmonds: 13 goals, 14 assists 27 points in 48 games and 15:55 of ice time; Richards: 14 goals, 12 assists 26 points in 42 games and 19:15 of ice time.
- funmaster18

Oh ISH!

I prefer adding a dman in Free Agency, instead of dealing assets that will create holes in the lineup. If healthy, JVR is a top 6 forward, he would likely have 20+ goals right now if he hadn't been injured and this JVR for L. Schenn stuff wouldn't even come up.
- PLindbergh31

This.

Dustin Leed

Wayne Simmonds compared to Mike Richards right now, how it stands: Simmonds: 13 goals, 14 assists 27 points in 48 games and 15:55 of ice time; Richards: 14 goals, 12 assists 26 points in 42 games and 19:15 of ice time.
- funmaster18

That extra ice time for Richards is probably mostly PK time.

I dont think that mindset to trade him is all that crazy. If I need a player like JvR to land someone like Weber then so be it. His potential is high and he is a young kid but the chance he does/doesnt become a monster in the NHL is anyones guess. Players sometimes never reach their potential and sometimes they do. Thats the risk of any trade.
- stveshdy

RE: a Suter trade
I'm never ok with trading a young player for a guy that can walk. Probably a bad example cause Dallas won the cup and Calgary hasn't but I look at Iginla in Calgary. Williams in Carolina. and in today's salary cap NHL when you can't just "buy" teams, I really hate giving away young talent for guys who can walk.

Would love Weber, question is can they get him under the cap next year?

I'm never ok with trading a young player for a guy that can walk. Probably a bad example cause Dallas won the cup and Calgary hasn't but I look at Iginla in Calgary. Williams in Carolina. and in today's salary cap NHL when you can't just "buy" teams, I really hate giving away young talent for guys who can walk.
- nastyflyergirl

Well said. No question about it. The way to build a team in the cap era is through the draft.

Dustin Leed

Wayne Simmonds compared to Mike Richards right now, how it stands: Simmonds: 13 goals, 14 assists 27 points in 48 games and 15:55 of ice time; Richards: 14 goals, 12 assists 26 points in 42 games and 19:15 of ice time.
- funmaster18

Simmonds is coming along nicely since my ragging on him earlier this season.

I prefer adding a dman in Free Agency, instead of dealing assets that will create holes in the lineup. If healthy, JVR is a top 6 forward, he would likely have 20+ goals right now if he hadn't been injured and this JVR for L. Schenn stuff wouldn't even come up.
- PLindbergh31

With the current defensive core aging and costing too much you are going to have to replace the guys with younger cheaper options. L.Schenn + a first for JVR + a 3rd, will give the Flyers one of those younger guys, that wont be UFA for a while... Meanwhile they can use that first rounder to pick a good defenseman in the draft who in a year or 2 will also be ready to play. Then in the off-season you can still go after Suter IF he isnt going to cost you more then 6.5 mil a season, cause you really cant afford to spend any more then that when Timonen's hit is 6.5, Meszaros is 4.2, Coburn is 4.... Just cant afford to overpay for Suter like other teams will.

With the current defensive core aging and costing too much you are going to have to replace the guys with younger cheaper options. L.Schenn + a first for JVR + a 3rd, will give the Flyers one of those younger guys, that wont be UFA for a while... Meanwhile they can use that first rounder to pick a good defenseman in the draft who in a year or 2 will also be ready to play. Then in the off-season you can still go after Suter IF he isnt going to cost you more then 6.5 mil a season, cause you really cant afford to spend any more then that when Timonen's hit is 6.5, Meszaros is 4.2, Coburn is 4.... Just cant afford to overpay for Suter like other teams will.
- RooNosHockey

I'm not against the idea in theory, I'm just not as high on L. Schenn as others are.

- rockychocbill

I like my avatar better then yours...LOL