While I'd hate to see JVR go that trade is worth it.
- Manitobakid

i disagree

While I'd hate to see JVR go that trade is worth it.
- Manitobakid

why? JVR has flashes of carter in him
- 2Real

ok homer

why? JVR has flashes of carter in him
- 2Real

Even though JVR has struggled due to injury this year he still has a more valuable upside then Schenn. I like Schenn but the player JVR can become is much more rare then the shutdown defenseman I think Schenn will become.

It's also worth noting that a healthy Schenn has struggled this season as well, being one of the weaker links on a Leaf's team that is mediocre defensively.

Id do JVR for Voynov. Probably not for Schenn tho unless more is coming back but even then Id rather we package JVR with a 2nd and get one great player than JVR for two good players.

Moving Price or Subban would be a huge mistake on the Habs part. The Habs aren't exactly making life easy on him because they get annoyed with the kid but Subban is a building block player, as is Price. It's easy to find talented forwards but players like Subban and Price don't come everyday.

Subban should be careful about what he says but I think the Habs themselves should be careful of what they say as well. Erik Cole is a new player in that dressing room and he completely threw PK Subban under the bus on national TV after the Red Wings game.

I'm sure Subban is a lot of things but I think the Habs should worry about becoming a better team before worrying about a young player. Especially based on the fact that Subban is one of their better players.
- Schenn2shine

I have no problem with what Cole said. These are the kind of comments, IMO, that are going to make PK realize that he isn't bigger than the team.

That being said, I totally agree with what you said. Price/Subban are very good building blocks.

Even though JVR has struggled due to injury this year he still has a more valuable upside then Schenn. I like Schenn but the player JVR can become is much more rare then the shutdown defenseman I think Schenn will become.

It's also worth noting that a healthy Schenn has struggled this season as well, being one of the weaker links on a Leaf's team that is mediocre defensively.
- Baxter27

NHL defenseman usually take more time to develop than a forward. Trading JvR for anyone is a risk. I dont think I would trade him straight up for Schenn. The potential for both players is very high but the Flyers are smart to hang onto JvR as he would be needed to have any chance at acquiring Weber (whenever they decide to try).

Even though JVR has struggled due to injury this year he still has a more valuable upside then Schenn. I like Schenn but the player JVR can become is much more rare then the shutdown defenseman I think Schenn will become.

It's also worth noting that a healthy Schenn has struggled this season as well, being one of the weaker links on a Leaf's team that is mediocre defensively.
- Baxter27

the leafs are generally crap schenn would do well here

NHL defenseman usually take more time to develop than a forward. Trading JvR for anyone is a risk. I dont think I would trade him straight up for Schenn. The potential for both players is very high but the Flyers are smart to hang onto JvR as he would be needed to have any chance at acquiring Weber (whenever they decide to try).
- stveshdy

i just dont want to trade jvr as i really see him as the longterm answer for a winger for giroux. i dont want to let him go and then spend a few years trying to fill that spot. i just think with his size, speed and hands he will turn into one of the premier wingers once he fully matures and develops. sure he might still have some shortcomings but with another year or two under his belt... watch out

Mike Smith, Kari Lehtonen, Cam Ward, Ryan Miller who would you pick for the rest of the fantasy season

i just dont want to trade jvr as i really see him as the longterm answer for a winger for giroux. i dont want to let him go and then spend a few years trying to fill that spot. i just think with his size, speed and hands he will turn into one of the premier wingers once he fully matures and develops. sure he might still have some shortcomings but with another year or two under his belt... watch out
- Crimsoninja

Thats why I dont trade JvR unless im going to get an elite defenseman in his prime such as Weber. I think you build championships with balance but it all starts with goaltending and defense. I would be willing to move JvR if it brings me back an elite defenseman for years to come.

Mike Smith, Kari Lehtonen, Cam Ward, Ryan Miller who would you pick for the rest of the fantasy season
- 2Real

Kari. What the hell happened to Ryan Miller?

I have no with what Cole said. These are the kind of comments, IMO, that are going to make PK realize that he isn't bigger than the team.

That being said, I totally agree with what you said. Price/Subban are very good building blocks.
- Subban_76

After the word Wings game on NBC/Versus he was asked about Subban because Subban sat most of the second period. Cole didn't directly call Subban selfish but it was easy to read between the lines. No way around it.

I agree that Subban should be tough that he isn't bigger then the team but that's an "in house" issue. You deal with it that way. The broadcasters played it off as if Cole doesn't care, he says what's on his mind. Personally I think Cole accidentally said what he said. It just rolled off his tongue and he didn't mean to put it the way that he did. Stuff, no excuse. I'm sure that wasn't Erik Cole's first post game interview.

Young players have more control then you think on whether they want to play for a team. All Subban has to do is accept the money and play average and one of the 29 teams in the league will make a call to get him.

Thats why I dont trade JvR unless im going to get an elite defenseman in his prime such as Weber. I think you build championships with balance but it all starts with goaltending and defense. I would be willing to move JvR if it brings me back an elite defenseman for years to come.
- stveshdy

i could get on board with that. but, like you, i dont see Schenn as that..

i just dont want to trade jvr as i really see him as the longterm answer for a winger for giroux. i dont want to let him go and then spend a few years trying to fill that spot. i just think with his size, speed and hands he will turn into one of the premier wingers once he fully matures and develops. sure he might still have some shortcomings but with another year or two under his belt... watch out
- Crimsoninja

I couldn't agree more. Nobody ever seems happy with what they already have because they see what they have on a nightly basis. Schenn is struggling big time right now. Any struggles JvR has been due to injury.G

Giroux = Datsyuk
Schenn/Couturier = Zertterberg
JvR = Franzon

i could get on board with that. but, like you, i dont see Schenn as that..
- Crimsoninja

I think Schenn will be a very good NHL defenseman but I dont know if he will ever be an elite type guy. We are also assuming that JvR will be an elite forward which very well may not happen. I just look at the two players and you would have to say that JvR has the higher upside (as of today). The Leafs would have to give me more than Schenn if they want JvR.

Kari. What the hell happened to Ryan Miller?
- hereticpride

i dunno but he's killing me this year i had high hopes for him

i just dont want to trade jvr as i really see him as the longterm answer for a winger for giroux. i dont want to let him go and then spend a few years trying to fill that spot. i just think with his size, speed and hands he will turn into one of the premier wingers once he fully matures and develops. sure he might still have some shortcomings but with another year or two under his belt... watch out
- Crimsoninja

very well thought out and correct post IMO.

I think Schenn will be a very good NHL defenseman but I dont know if he will ever be an elite type guy. We are also assuming that JvR will be an elite forward which very well may not happen. I just look at the two players and you would have to say that JvR has the higher upside (as of today). The Leafs would have to give me more than Schenn if they want JvR.
- stveshdy

I actually like the Gunnarson kid on the Leafs better

i dunno but he's killing me this year i had high hopes for him
- 2Real

tough with goalies, Miller is a great goalie but like Bryz he's off his game this year

The sabres are not helping him either, they are a mess.

I think Schenn will be a very good NHL defenseman but I dont know if he will ever be an elite type guy. We are also assuming that JvR will be an elite forward which very well may not happen. I just look at the two players and you would have to say that JvR has the higher upside (as of today). The Leafs would have to give me more than Schenn if they want JvR.
- stveshdy

Not to put you on the spot but what makes you think JvR won't ever become elite. I've read you say it takes NHL defenseman longer to develop but the fact of the matter is, it also takes power forward longer to develop as well. It's clear between the 2 players that JvR is the better player in the deal. Why would we want to deal him away for a lesser player? I understand that we need D but a guy like Tim Gleason could fill whatever we need, for last cost. It sucks that he's older but Gleason will help us now and a guy like Luke Schenn and Shea Weber wait. They can wait long enough so that we don't have to take any unnecessary risks, like this one.

The only player I would consider moving right now is Andreas Lilja. I would be OK with moving any draft pick that isn't our first rounder for an upgrade on D. I would be OK with moving any prospect who's name isn't Sean Couturier, Braydenn Schenn Erik Gustafsson, Zac Rinaldo, Tom Sestito, Harry Zolnierczyk and Eric Wellwood. I would be okay with moving Marc-Andre Burdon at the right price but I do believe he'll get better as an NHL player.

The fact is, there isn't much I want to move to get better. I want Tim Gleason but I'm not willing to give up anything more then a second and a mid level prospect for him.
- Schenn2shine

You need defensive depth, and Lilja gives you that. He's not going to have a high trade value anyway, so no reason to deal him.

You need defensive depth, and Lilja gives you that. He's not going to have a high trade value anyway, so no reason to deal him.
- MJL

Doesn't matter. You can trade for defensive depth. You can get a 7th defenseman from anywhere. With another year on his contract, you could probably trade him for a another UFA 7th Dman who doesn't have another year. Lilja isn't cracking the line up right now and to me that isn't a very good sign, especially considering how he was playing before Gus returned.

Not to put you on the spot but what makes you think JvR won't ever become elite. I've read you say it takes NHL defenseman longer to develop but the fact of the matter is, it also takes power forward longer to develop as well. It's clear between the 2 players that JvR is the better player in the deal. Why would we want to deal him away for a lesser player? I understand that we need D but a guy like Tim Gleason could fill whatever we need, for last cost. It sucks that he's older but Gleason will help us now and a guy like Luke Schenn and Shea Weber wait. They can wait long enough so that we don't have to take any unnecessary risks, like this one.
- Schenn2shine

I never said JvR wont become elite. I said there is no guarantee that he will be an elite forward in the NHL. I have seen forwards come into the NHL and be successful as rookies. NHL defenseman (rookies) take longer to develop as the game is much harder playing on the back end. I wouldnt trade JvR unless im getting a young elite defenseman in his prime such as Weber. I dont think Schenn straight up is the move the Flyers want to do. Gleason's asking price is ridiculous and not even worth the time. This Flyers team wont win a championships unless the goaltending and defense gets better. After adding so much youth to this lineup during the summer I can understand if the Flyers decide to sit still at the deadline. Maybe they add someone like Gill for a later draft pick but im not going crazy to add a defenseman.

Doesn't matter. You can trade for defensive depth. You can get a 7th defenseman from anywhere. With another year on his contract, you could probably trade him for a another UFA 7th Dman who doesn't have another year. Lilja isn't cracking the line up right now and to me that isn't a very good sign, especially considering how he was playing before Gus returned.
- Schenn2shine

Lilja is signed cheap. He gives you another depth defenseman for next year as well. If Lilja is asked to play on a consistent basis then its a bad signing but not as a number seven.