I don't think trading away a #1 goaltender, which is what Roloson was on the Isles, for a tall, lanky, non-physical d-man who can't make the NHL is a "great" trade just because Roloson was going to walk at the end of the year. Getting Wishart for Roli is certainly better than getting nothing at all, but that doesn't mean the deal was "great".
- Jethro09

what were the other options? what would make the deal great in your eyes?

what were the other options? what would make the deal great in your eyes?
- LetsGoIsles

If they got Stamkos back, now that would have been a great trade.

what were the other options? what would make the deal great in your eyes?
- LetsGoIsles

I don't know if there were other options. Nobody knows. There might have been if Snow held onto to Roli until the last minute, then maybe a team would have stepped up with a better offer. But we'll never know that.

Truth is, I don't think you could make a "great" deal for Roloson last year. Just because Wishart may have been the best that was offered to Snow for Roloson doesn't mean the deal was "great". If someone offers you $100K for your house that's valued at $500K and you take it because it was the best offer you received, that doesn't make the offer or the deal were "great".

Another story that I'll file into the Archives.

North American Hockey players are a breed unto themselves. They remember their roots. They are for the most part from close families. They seem to give back. They dont have a entitlement attitude like many Baseball, Basketball and Football players seem to have.

When I was at the local rink down here. Neil Smith was standing next to me talking to the folks and families. Relaxed, informal, a regular guy. I wouldnt even have noticed him had it not been for my buddy who told me to turn and look.

Whens the last time ARod or Albert P was seen rubbing elbows with the peasant folks? :)
- SCLI

Bad example. Two highly recognizable guys known by a lot more people than Neiil Smith is. And how many of those peasant folks would act like a bunch of a-holes around them. Especially A Rod. I wouldn't blame them for shying away.

huh?
- BringBackBalky

Haha meant that one figuratively. Like how Samuel L. Jackson means it in "Pulp Fiction" regarding foot massages.

Bailey isn't getting moved only b/c no one wants him. you couldn't get a 3rd round pick for him right now.
- niteislander

Yes you could. You obviously haven't watched him play for the past month or two. Just because he's not putting up the numbers doesn't mean his play hasn't improved. He's also 22 with a $1M cap hit. There would definitely be a team willing to give up a pick for him.

Guys taken 9th overall in the draft should not top out as third line defensive specialists. Especially when they were taken at 9 overall as a reach, with the team selecting them trading down twice and passing on higher ranked players to take that player at #9 overall. Maybe "crap" is a harsh description, but its not too far off. Rolston and Reasoner are "crap". Bailey is a major underachiever who has not developed into close to what he was and is projected to be.
- Jethro09

Look at the history of 9th overall picks. You'll be surprised at the lack of stars. If you get an NHL regular, you have done well.

http://www.mynhldraft.com...-picks/9th-overall/90509/

True, myself included. But if they didn't take Filatov, they could have taken Schenn, who is a far better d-man than Bailey is a forward. They also could have had Bailey in the middle of the first round. Bottom line is that Bailey was a reach pick at #9 overall. He was projected to go middle of the round. Forwards taken in the top ten of a draft should pan out to become top six forwards. Bailey is not on track to become a top six forward. I think that's why people label him a "bust". Bailey will be a third-line player in the NHL. Not what you want a player to become who was picked in the top ten of his draft.
- Jethro09

Way to conveniently forget that they picked up two second rounders by trading down, one of which ended up being Hamonic. Islanders did well that draft. Hamonic by himself is better than Schenn. I would totally take Hamonic and Bailey over Schenn. Again, scroll up a little a look at that list of 9th overall picks. Historically, a few teams have gotten stars, but the vast majority get role players or busts.

I don't know if there were other options. Nobody knows. There might have been if Snow held onto to Roli until the last minute, then maybe a team would have stepped up with a better offer. But we'll never know that.

Truth is, I don't think you could make a "great" deal for Roloson last year. Just because Wishart may have been the best that was offered to Snow for Roloson doesn't mean the deal was "great". If someone offers you $100K for your house that's valued at $500K and you take it because it was the best offer you received, that doesn't make the offer or the deal were "great".
- Jethro09

TOTALLY agree with that..... but i think youre severly overvaluing Roli....i think this is more of a case of "If someone offers you $10 for your house that's valued at $5 and you take it because it was the best off you received"

just because it isnt a MONSTER return (i know it was a joke but clearly stamkos or a big name isnt coming back)....i happen to think that fair value for roli would have been a 3-4 round pick....if given the chance of picking between a 3-4th round pick or taking wishart....im taking ty

Bailey isn't getting moved only b/c no one wants him. you couldn't get a 3rd round pick for him right now.
- niteislander

thats true..

thats not true..
- cmimbri

Fixed.

Way to conveniently forget that they picked up two second rounders by trading down, one of which ended up being Hamonic. Islanders did well that draft. Hamonic by himself is better than Schenn. I would totally take Hamonic and Bailey over Schenn. Again, scroll up a little a look at that list of 9th overall picks. Historically, a few teams have gotten stars, but the vast majority get role players or busts.
- isles10289

I don't forget anything. I don't have a problem with trading down. The decision to take Bailey at #9 overall, when he was projected as the #13-16 overall pick is my issue. I don't know if your representation about the vast majority of ninth overall picks that were forwards becoming busts is accurate. I think you'd have a few people arguing with you that Hamonic is better than Schenn. I love that they took Hamonic. I think the Isles had a great draft in '08. But that's not because they picked Bailey, its in spite of that selection.

TOTALLY agree with that..... but i think youre severly overvaluing Roli....i think this is more of a case of "If someone offers you $10 for your house that's valued at $5 and you take it because it was the best off you received"

just because it isnt a MONSTER return (i know it was a joke but clearly stamkos or a big name isnt coming back)....i happen to think that fair value for roli would have been a 3-4 round pick....if given the chance of picking between a 3-4th round pick or taking wishart....im taking ty
- LetsGoIsles

I'm not going to labor the point. My point is that Wishart is a reach to become an NHL player and you traded away a starting NHL goaltender, one who carried the Lightning to the conference finals last year, for him. I'm not saying the deal was a bad one, but to call it "great"? I just don't agree.

November 30, 2005: Traded to San Jose by Boston for Brad Stuart, Marco Sturm and Wayne Primeau


ya think? LOL
- BringBackBalky

Yet boston is now a powerhouse and San Jose is too top heavy to ever win poop. Ironic

Pretty random I was just reading up on some stuff and read more into the whole Neil Smith GM firing issue of 2006 and how Pat LaFontaine quit his advisor position that same day, is that what the whole issue is with the Islanders and LaFontaine or is there more to it because I actually don't know what it is. Someone clarify for me?

I don't forget anything. I don't have a problem with trading down. The decision to take Bailey at #9 overall, when he was projected as the #13-16 overall pick is my issue. I don't know if your representation about the vast majority of ninth overall picks that were forwards becoming busts is accurate. I think you'd have a few people arguing with you that Hamonic is better than Schenn. I love that they took Hamonic. I think the Isles had a great draft in '08. But that's not because they picked Bailey, its in spite of that selection.
- Jethro09

What I'm saying is, people are way too hard on this guy. He plays really well in his own zone, and is a really solid penalty killer. Somewhat like the majority of players picked 9th overall. Were there better players? Yes; Eberle, Karlsson, etc. But the draft is a crapshoot. If you get an NHL-er past the top couple of picks, you've done alright.

I don't forget anything. I don't have a problem with trading down. The decision to take Bailey at #9 overall, when he was projected as the #13-16 overall pick is my issue. I don't know if your representation about the vast majority of ninth overall picks that were forwards becoming busts is accurate. I think you'd have a few people arguing with you that Hamonic is better than Schenn. I love that they took Hamonic. I think the Isles had a great draft in '08. But that's not because they picked Bailey, its in spite of that selection.
- Jethro09

I think its an issue because bailey was supposed to be this teams second line center. We don't have a true number 2 guy. Neilson is a perfect three. Bailey is a work in progress three. Isles need to get a compliment to Tavares , sorta like peca to yashin.

Pretty random I was just reading up on some stuff and read more into the whole Neil Smith GM firing issue of 2006 and how Pat LaFontaine quit his advisor position that same day, is that what the whole issue is with the Islanders and LaFontaine or is there more to it because I actually don't know what it is. Someone clarify for me?
- isles21beast

Lafontaine had to be escorted from the coliseum because he lost his mind when smith was fired. Security worthy outburst.

I think its an issue because bailey was supposed to be this teams second line center. We don't have a true number 2 guy. Neilson is a perfect three. Bailey is a work in progress three. Isles need to get a compliment to Tavares , sorta like peca to yashin.
- Isles316

Strome. Hopefully. Bailey may have to learn to play left wing if he's going to stay an Islander. Or they're going to move Nielsen and slide Bailey into the 3rd line center spot.

Lafontaine had to be escorted from the coliseum because he lost his mind when smith was fired. Security worthy outburst.
- Isles316

That's seriously what happened? Wow that's crazy I never heard that I always wondered what the whole problem was with him and the team

Strome. Hopefully. Bailey may have to learn to play left wing if he's going to stay an Islander. Or they're going to move Nielsen and slide Bailey into the 3rd line center spot.
- Jethro09

I love Frans but he would get us a pretty nice return I think and Bailey is a pretty nice 3rd line center Strome could slide into the 2nd line center spot but if we traded Frans at the deadline what do we do for the rest of the year, and what if Strome isn't ready?

True, myself included. But if they didn't take Filatov, they could have taken Schenn, who is a far better d-man than Bailey is a forward. They also could have had Bailey in the middle of the first round. Bottom line is that Bailey was a reach pick at #9 overall. He was projected to go middle of the round. Forwards taken in the top ten of a draft should pan out to become top six forwards. Bailey is not on track to become a top six forward. I think that's why people label him a "bust". Bailey will be a third-line player in the NHL. Not what you want a player to become who was picked in the top ten of his draft.
- Jethro09

Schenn was clearly the pick... they did move down twice though and with those extra picks enabled them to grab a ton of players in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th round of that draft.. like Trivino, Hamonic, Ness, Petrov, Niemi, Toews, Matt Donovan, Ulstrom, etc ..

the website is painting a picture that isnt 100% accurate. they are kinda comparing apples and oranges...you comparing tavareses total points to just team goals...

there have been a total of 117 goals and 208 assists...of THAT (325 total points) tavares has a hand in 53.....IE 1/6 IE 16.6667%

thats a little more accurate.


if you compare individual total POINTS to total team GOALS than this is the breakdown:

JT- 45%
Moulson- 39%
PAP- 39%

the article is trying to paint the picture that JT is 45% responsible for the team being where they are....what they are leaving out is that this % isnt out of 100% (IE the rest of the team isnt splitting up the other 55%).....if they did it my way THAN they can say that JT is responsible for 16.667% of the teams total points, but obviously 16% doesnt sound as outrageous as 45% does....
- LetsGoIsles

wtf-- where is Spartiarti?? i spend days putting this one together....

no-- it would still be a great trade!!! you cant evaluate a trade based on results. that part is easy!!! its working with the facts AT THE TIME of the trade. even if wishart never touches coliseum ice, i stand by my comment that AT THE TIME (and given the fact roli was leaving anyway-- and there were presumably no better offers) it was a great trade....because of the potential
- LetsGoIsles

They traded Rolo before the trade deadline. They traded him for lesser value based on the fact that the year before they could not get a first round pick for his rights. Last year was a different scenario.. They still could have gotten a second round pick instead of Wishart who we hoped we could turn around. The fact that 2 teams were willing to part with him should have been a big red flag. At the time I was hoping Garth stole a superstar... he didn't.. We would have been better off with another second round pick in a very deep draft. We may have been able to use that pick plus our very high second round pick to move up into the first round for another pick... all hind sight obviously. Garth was hoping Cairns would wake this kid up... He was wrong.

I love Frans but he would get us a pretty nice return I think and Bailey is a pretty nice 3rd line center Strome could slide into the 2nd line center spot but if we traded Frans at the deadline what do we do for the rest of the year, and what if Strome isn't ready?
- isles21beast

If they traded Frans I would miss him most on the shootout. It is very valuable to have a guy THAT good at shootouts... can he PLEASE teach Grabner that move!!!