Which accounts for his incredible dominance over his peers as evidenced by the following:
+30
+65
+54
+124
+86
+56
+84
+80

Or did goalies just take their mask off when Orr skated past everyone else to shoot on them?
- lacaprup

Here's a few facts to consider:

There were no/very few europeans playing the game back then: no Kurri, Ovechkin, Malkin, Selanne, Jagr etc... The pool of players was much smaller.

Players are much better conditioned physically today than in the 70's. How many players today smoke? how about smoking between periods? 70's players did not condition themselves in the off-season like they do today.

Orr was unique because, as a defenseman, he carried the puck and scored with it. Guys couldn't keep up with his speed or his moves. He revolutionized the role of an NHL defenseman.

Orr was also one of the greatest gentlemen to play the game.

Again, I agree that Orr was THE best d-man to play the game, but trying to make absolute number comparisons with all the changes that have taken place in the last 30+ years lacks merit.

How much compensation did we get back for Kotalik from his European team?
- JVince117

They are picking up a small portion of his salary, but I don't think it's much.

What it really boils down to is we are paying over $6.5 mil for Robyn Regehr this season.

Have you seen the build or should I say lack of on todays average NHLer. The game was played much tougher back then and they skated with three lines...not four....So your much faster and better shape thing doesn't hold much water. Can you imagine Orr with carbon fiber boots and tuuk blades, with a carbon fiber stick with a big banana on it? Rather than old four pound leather boots with metal blades and a dead straight wooden Sher-wood . You people need to get real . 30 teams with 20 players plus 4 health scratches, 720 players deep, compaired to 12 teams with 17 players or the best 204 player in the world at the time.
- Cometman

Id say NHL players are above and beyond the players of yesterday. Its the natural progression of sports. You can see it across the board. Players start younger...we have modern technology and medicine to make you play harder and heal quicker.

Debate: Where’s Paul Gaustad going?

http://espn.go.com/blog/n...wheres-paul-gaustad-going

Darcy better and should get a big return.

Debate: Where’s Paul Gaustad going?

http://espn.go.com/blog/n...wheres-paul-gaustad-going

Darcy better and should get a big return.
- gibby111

Big return as a 2nd round pick and a prospect

They also didn't wear helmets and they didn't check as hard. BFD. You put anyone of those old timers in todays game and you have a DB like Lucic take him out, for good, end of a potential storied career.

Back in the Day they only had 6 teams, so every team won.
- Full Throttle

Your so far off on this one and contradicting yourself here. Hockey was played much tougher back then by a longshot. Take your example of Lucic , now take the helmet off him and put him in gear from 45 years ago . That would slow the D'bag down ...if not a crack of lumber a cross the head or back of the legs would. Plus guys in Orrs day wouldn't have the luxury of picking and choosing who they dropped them with.

Here's a few facts to consider:

There were no/very few europeans playing the game back then: no Kurri, Ovechkin, Malkin, Selanne, Jagr etc... The pool of players was much smaller.

Players are much better conditioned physically today than in the 70's. How many players today smoke? how about smoking between periods? 70's players did not condition themselves in the off-season like they do today.

Orr was unique because, as a defenseman, he carried the puck and scored with it. Guys couldn't keep up with his speed or his moves. He revolutionized the role of an NHL defenseman.

Orr was also one of the greatest gentlemen to play the game.

Again, I agree that Orr was THE best d-man to play the game, but trying to make absolute number comparisons with all the changes that have taken place in the last 30+ years lacks merit.
- Purple Eagle

If I were arguing that Lidstrom doesn't score as many goals per game or assists per game as Orr, I would see the logic of your post; however, I am pointing to season over season +/- and Orr's ability to score more points than any of the forwards in his generation. These ratios show how much more dominant Orr is than any other player not named Gretky in any era. Lidstrom has never dominated over his peers in the way that Orr did. He has not even come close to it.

I'm a big Orr fan, but...

How many goalies wore masks when Orr played?
- Purple Eagle

Virtually every one of them. He played mostly in the 1970's.

Does it really matter in comparing who was the best of all time??

There is no way of knowing that ever, stats can lie, teammates can make someone better, coaching systems can make someone better, etc.

This isn't wrestling, horseshoes, tennis, or any other 1-1 sport. There is no way of ever knowing who would be the best.

Does it really matter in comparing who was the best of all time??

There is no way of knowing that ever, stats can lie, teammates can make someone better, coaching systems can make someone better, etc.

This isn't wrestling, horseshoes, tennis, or any other 1-1 sport. There is no way of ever knowing who would be the best.
- JVince117

Sorry, this isn't like comparing Albert Pujols and Lou Gherig, this is like comparing Babe Ruth and Manny Ramirez.

Purp... What the hell do masks have to do with anything? Goalies still stopped shots...............
- rapperray

I hope I'm missing the sarcasm symbol-
Do you really think those guys put themselves in front of shots back then like they do today?
A puck is coming at you @ 80-90mph and you're going to stand as broad with the cardboard those guys used to wear versus the padding they wear today?
Those guys used to duck from risers-

Sorry, this isn't like comparing Albert Pujols and Lou Gherig, this is like comparing Babe Ruth and Manny Ramirez.
- lacaprup

Sweet can we compare...

Toskala and Patrick Roy next?

Sorry, this isn't like comparing Albert Pujols and Lou Gherig, this is like comparing Babe Ruth and Manny Ramirez.
- lacaprup

I am with you - Bobby Orr is in a special category. His peers are not defensemen, but forwards like Gretzky and Lemieux.

I think putting Lidstrom in a category with guys like Ray Bourque is compliment enough.

Dustin Brown is absolutely being shopped. Even his agent will tell you that.

Get to work Darcy, you're boss loves this guy........
- Irish 14

We need another winger why?

Sweet can we compare...

Toskala and Patrick Roy next?
- JVince117

About as effective as Lidstrom and Orr.

I am with you - Bobby Orr is in a special category. His peers are not defensemen, but forwards like Gretzky and Lemieux.

I think putting Lidstrom in a category with guys like Ray Bourque is compliment enough.
- SabreSufferer

100% correct

Nice work on this Kept !

Agree completely. An astute GM or manager of any business uses assets. Even as kids I knew enough to mortgate my properties when I played Monopoly if I couldn't build houses/hotels !!


Look at Yzerman. They're in FRONT of Buffalo but he decided days ago that in order to make his team better in the long run he had to make moves immediately in order to capitalize on the value of the asset. He's got a Stamkos, Lacavalier, St. Louis, etc. and he's STILL not willing to take a kick at the Cup because he knows his team. He KNOWS they don't stand a chance.
- Pairo11

Wonder if Yzerman remembers his team lost in the semi finals to the cup winner last year. If he's given up he shoud be fired.

Virtually every one of them. He played mostly in the 1970's.
- SabreSufferer

Sorry...cages.
And some goalies wore NOTHING while Orr was dominant
Those old style masks/plates offered NO protection other than from a cut.

We need another winger why?
- BigStew

If we can trade Stafford and a like 3rd or 4th rounder for Brown I would do it.

Take out dead weight stafford at wing and insert Brown.

Take it!

Wonder if Yzerman remembers his team lost in the semi finals to the cup winner last year. If he's given up he shoud be fired.
- BigStew

Anyone who fires a GM that just got a first rounder for Steve Downie should be fired.

Sorry...cages.
Those old style masks/plates offered NO protection other than a cut.
- Purple Eagle

Ah. I am going to guess that Orr didn't see many cage-style masks until the very end of his career, if then.

Ah. I am going to guess that Orr didn't see many cage-style masks until the very end of his career, if then.
- SabreSufferer

Willing to bet he never saw one xpt on the Russian team.

We need another winger why?
- BigStew

While we aren't looking to obtain wingers...I would love Dustin Brown on this team. A leader who normally leads the league in hits...yes please!

While we aren't looking to obtain wingers...I would love Dustin Brown on this team. A leader who normally leads the league in hits...yes please!
- sambarugh

We always say that we don't need any wingers, but if we get rid of every winger we don't like, we will then need wingers.

If we can trade Stafford and a like 3rd or 4th rounder for Brown I would do it.

Take out dead weight stafford at wing and insert Brown.

Take it!
- JVince117

If your swapping wingers fine, other than that not interested.