I disagree. The problem is that if you trade Carle now instead of his rights in the offseason you basically nullify the 4 draft picks we sent out for impending UFAs Kubina and Grossman. You may think they aren't contending this year but that's not how Homer sees it given those two additions.
- hereticpride

Exactly and I would think this is obvious to everyone.

"Mushi mushi!"
- MrBuzzcut

It's been too long since I've seen the show. Dad used to watch it before/during dinner.

Here's the pros and cons as I see it:

PROS
1) Brown is three years younger
2) Brown is $1.1 M cheaper on the cap
3) Brown is signed for longer than Hartnell (a UFA at end of 2012-13)
4) Brown kills penalties, while Hartnell does not play PK
5) Brown's normal production rate is similar to Hartnell's
6) Brown is a captain in LA and could also be a captain here

CONS
1) Hartnell is having a better 2011-12 season by far
2) Hartnell is extremely popular in dressing room and a unifying presence
3) Hartnell and Giroux have established tremendous chemistry
4) Hartnell has a no-trade clause
5) Hartnell has compiled more playoff experience, including run to finals here
6) Hartnell relieves pressure on less talkative players by willingly going in front of the cameras and microphones during bad times. He knows by heart the pressures of playing in Philly. Brown has played in much lower-pressure market.
- bmeltzer

Do you know something we don't know.

I disagree. The problem is that if you trade Carle now instead of his rights in the offseason you basically nullify the 4 draft picks we sent out for impending UFAs Kubina and Grossman. You may think they aren't contending this year but that's not how Homer sees it given those two additions.
- hereticpride

Homer did trade 4 picks but most of those were acquired in trades. He still has plenty of picks for this upcoming draft. The Flyers will probably try to sign Grossman or Kubina in the offseason also, so the trades may not be just a rental. Making trades for two veteran defenseman is the right thing to do when your playing two rookies every single night. Im not saying they should trade Carle but if they continue to lose before the TDL its something to think about. I dont see Carle being back after the season. IMO this team is not a true contender but Homer/Flyers will always try to do whatever to make the team a contender. They want to win and I dont fault them for that.

Here's the pros and cons as I see it:

PROS
1) Brown is three years younger
2) Brown is $1.1 M cheaper on the cap
3) Brown is signed for longer than Hartnell (a UFA at end of 2012-13)
4) Brown kills penalties, while Hartnell does not play PK
5) Brown's normal production rate is similar to Hartnell's
6) Brown is a captain in LA and could also be a captain here

CONS
1) Hartnell is having a better 2011-12 season by far
2) Hartnell is extremely popular in dressing room and a unifying presence
3) Hartnell and Giroux have established tremendous chemistry
4) Hartnell has a no-trade clause
5) Hartnell has compiled more playoff experience, including run to finals here
6) Hartnell relieves pressure on less talkative players by willingly going in front of the cameras and microphones during bad times. He knows by heart the pressures of playing in Philly. Brown has played in much lower-pressure market.
- bmeltzer

Bill, do you think that if Brown is still around in the offseason they would go for Voracek, Carle's rights and maybe a draft pick conditional to wether Carle signs or not? I'd much prefer something like that to trading Hartnell.

What's interesting is absolutely nothing about this conversation.
- OrangeBlack27

Here's the pros and cons as I see it:

PROS
1) Brown is three years younger
2) Brown is $1.1 M cheaper on the cap
3) Brown is signed for longer than Hartnell (a UFA at end of 2012-13)
4) Brown kills penalties, while Hartnell does not play PK
5) Brown's normal production rate is similar to Hartnell's
6) Brown is a captain in LA and could also be a captain here

CONS
1) Hartnell is having a better 2011-12 season by far
2) Hartnell is extremely popular in dressing room and a unifying presence
3) Hartnell and Giroux have established tremendous chemistry
4) Hartnell has a no-trade clause
5) Hartnell has compiled more playoff experience, including run to finals here
6) Hartnell relieves pressure on less talkative players by willingly going in front of the cameras and microphones during bad times. He knows by heart the pressures of playing in Philly. Brown has played in much lower-pressure market.
- bmeltzer

Hartnell can play the PK, we just have players better at it.

Also, is it really a con that Hartnell has chemistry with Giroux?

Just curious guys. Would you trade Braydon Coburn and Matt Read for Dustin Brown and a second? Use the approximate two million in space that opens up next year to keep Matty Carle.
- Flyers1218

I would trade CARLE and Read for Brown.

The Flyers are losing with Carle in the lineup. The package I said can be a starting point. If Homer is able to add more to the deal so be it.
- stveshdy

brown and bernier are nice pieces, but i have absolutely no faith that brown would be a more productive player than voracek going forward.

Here's the pros and cons as I see it:

PROS
1) Brown is three years younger
2) Brown is $1.1 M cheaper on the cap
3) Brown is signed for longer than Hartnell (a UFA at end of 2012-13)
4) Brown kills penalties, while Hartnell does not play PK
5) Brown's normal production rate is similar to Hartnell's
6) Brown is a captain in LA and could also be a captain here

CONS
1) Hartnell is having a better 2011-12 season by far
2) Hartnell is extremely popular in dressing room and a unifying presence
3) Hartnell and Giroux have established tremendous chemistry
4) Hartnell has a no-trade clause
5) Hartnell has compiled more playoff experience, including run to finals here
6) Hartnell relieves pressure on less talkative players by willingly going in front of the cameras and microphones during bad times. He knows by heart the pressures of playing in Philly. Brown has played in much lower-pressure market.
- bmeltzer

18 months ago I probably make this 1 for 1 deal in a heartbeat. Not anymore.

What you're proposing doesn't make sense. They could have signed both Grossman and Kubina in the offseason then.

Did anyone think the Flyers were a contender in 2010? I did but many around the league who did not watch them consistently didn't. This is pretty much all the argument I need.
- roenick97

Your not understanding me so Ill move on. 2010 is one year out of how many? They also had a healthy Pronger and about two handful of things go their way. Shootout win, get NJ, play Montreal, Beat Boston down 0-3.

Hartnell can play the PK, we just have players better at it.

Also, is it really a con that Hartnell has chemistry with Giroux?
- roenick97

Where are those better players @ right now??? PK is on a brutal stretch.

I would trade CARLE and Read for Brown.
- Boyer83

thank god you're only in charge of your posts here and not the hockey club i root for.

Tossing this out as a hypothetical only. not a proposal or belief it will happen: Would you trade Scott Hartnell for Dustin Brown?
- bmeltzer

Nope. Harts is more than just a goal scorer for this team. He is a character guy in the room. He helps keep things loose. He has shown a willingness to own it when he isn't playing well and make the necessary changes to step things up. Plus, bottom line, he has become a very solid power forward net presence. I have not seen enough of Brown to know much about him. I know he plays a gritty game, but I don't trade Hartnell unless it is a "can't refuse" package coming back and that package would have to include a big bodied net crashing power forward.

18 months ago I probably make this 1 for 1 deal in a heartbeat. Not anymore.
- rockychocbill

And throw in one of Homer's famous 2nd roudners... I completely agree with you and only hope we are having a simliar convo about Bryz at the end of the year.

Antti Miettinen placed on waivers today. Wonder if the Flyers would have any interest. He was a name that many brought up in the summer.

thank god you're only in charge of your posts here and not the hockey club i root for.
- OrangeBlack27

I added Giroux so they would take Bryz contract.

Have you ever heard the expression too many cooks in the kitchen, or too many spoons in the pot? Same happens with leaders... The reason you name a Captain is when there is a difference of opinion, or the team needs someone to communicate directly with the coach... it puts 1 person in charge of that... 1 voice to be heard over the others so the team is on the same page... When you dont have that 1 person.... then you have different players looking at different leaders at critical times... You need unity, and players that look to 1 guy so everyone is together.... So I agree.
- RooNosHockey

I dunno, I thought it would be an idea to shake the team a bit.

Something different than JVR and a pick for (insert player here).

brown and bernier are nice pieces, but i have absolutely no faith that brown would be a more productive player than voracek going forward.
- OrangeBlack27

Everyone is taking what I posted to another level. Im just stating the Flyers have an option. They can keep Carle and ride out the year but they could deal him and try to improve for the future. I understand they gave up picks to acquire Grossman and Kubina bc they think their contenders and I credit them for that. IMO I think the Flyers are not true contenders. So there is nothing wrong with thinking about moving pieces for the future.

Matt Read's production in relation to his cap hit is gold, Jerry. Gold. No way he's getting moved unless it's in a package for a legit star.

Your not understanding me so Ill move on. 2010 is one year out of how many? They also had a healthy Pronger and about two handful of things go their way. Shootout win, get NJ, play Montreal, Beat Boston down 0-3.
- stveshdy

I'm not understanding you because there is nothing to understand. You want to take from he defense before we get into the playoffs, when we just added to the defense. It doesn't make sense.

What about all the seasons we made it to the Eastern Conference Finals before Pronger got here? We made it to the second round without Pronger and gave top notch goaltenders like Ryan Miller and Tim Thomas a hard time.

Antti Miettinen placed on waivers today. Wonder if the Flyers would have any interest. He was a name that many brought up in the summer.
- PLindbergh31

If they weren't maxed at 50 contracts, probably some interest.

If they weren't maxed at 50 contracts, probably some interest.
- Flyskippy

bye bye. Miss American Shelly.

Antti Miettinen placed on waivers today. Wonder if the Flyers would have any interest. He was a name that many brought up in the summer.
- PLindbergh31

Ottawa will probably bag him given Anderson is out for awhile

Everyone is taking what I posted to another level. Im just stating the Flyers have an option. They can keep Carle and ride out the year but they could deal him and try to improve for the future. I understand they gave up picks to acquire Grossman and Kubina bc they think their contenders and I credit them for that. IMO I think the Flyers are not true contenders. So there is nothing wrong with thinking about moving pieces for the future.
- stveshdy

again, i understand that line of thought and don't think it's a terrible idea to at least gauge the value there, but IMO, packaging pieces typically decreases the return you could get opposed to maximizing the value of those assets.