He's really not. They're basically identical statistic wise too. Carle turns the puck over 13 more times this year, but Suter has been playing alongside Weber all season. Also Carle blocks a lot more shots than Suter which could be due to the turnovers. However they are both relatively identical, Suter might be a little more refined but Carle has always shown when he is paired with the right guy he's a topnotch defenseman.
- JoeRussomanno

Yeah but Carle is a turnover machine and Suter is a stud

He's really not. They're basically identical statistic wise too. Carle turns the puck over 13 more times this year, but Suter has been playing alongside Weber all season. Also Carle blocks a lot more shots than Suter which could be due to the turnovers. However they are both relatively identical, Suter might be a little more refined but Carle has always shown when he is paired with the right guy he's a topnotch defenseman.
- JoeRussomanno

I wouldn't say identical, but they're very comparable. Suter's the better player by a significant bit, but you're right they're a very similar product. I'm not sure Suter is $2m better, but that's the premium you'd pay for getting the best on the market.

The question is, do you pay $7mm for Suter or $5mm or so for Carle? IMO, Suter's not worth $2mm more than Carle.
- Jsaquella

Carle isn't worth 5 million. He is Brutal at
times defensively and isn't a good pp qb either. Not for a cap hit of 5 mil. Flyers need to upgrade the defense to off set Timonen's age and the probability of not having Pronger. Letting go of Carle and Kubina and using that money wisely is a start.

If Suter signs a $7mm deal, then you're paying a premium for a modest upgrade on a guy you're unwilling to pay $5mm per year.
- Jsaquella

The thing is, I don't see it as a modest upgrade. Suter gets underrated because he plays with Weber. He's the # 1 d-man on probably 2/3 of the teams in the NHL including the Flyers.

Let Kubina and Carle leave, sign Suter and Grossman and Gustafsson is the 6th d-man.

Suter
Timonen
Coburn
Meszaros
Grossman
Gustafsson

The way this team is playing right now, it's hard to envision them doing anything in the playoffs, it's going on the equivalent of a quarter of a season with out consecutive wins now.
I wouldn't be opposed to trading Carle in the next few days. Recouping some picks. The worst case scenarios with Carle are; re-signing him at 5+ million, or losing him and getting nothing in return. Trading him makes a lot of sense to me.
- PLindbergh31

If you trade Carle for picks... then what was the point in acquiring Kubina and Grossman?

Yeah but Carle is a turnover machine and Suter is a stud
- fecondo

I had a guy tell me carle turns the puck over every shift and he was serious as a heart attack. When I showed him Carle turns over the puck less than once a game he came up with, well he never hits nobody so we should get suter. I brought up Suter never hits nobody at least not much more than Carle and at least Carle is willing to sacrifice himself by blocking shots more. Then I was told he's the worst excuse of a Defenseman and that this gentleman has been following the team since 1968 and knows more about the team than I do. I let him think he won at that point, Gov. Christie's cutbacks on the mental health care system appeared to have taken an extreme toll to me.

Does Suter QB the pp in Nashville?

Carle isn't worth 5 million. He is Brutal at
times defensively and isn't a good pp qb either. Not for a cap hit of 5 mil. Flyers need to upgrade the defense to off set Timonen's age and the probability of not having Pronger. Letting go of Carle and Kubina and using that money wisely is a start.
- killercam

Carle has 13 more turnovers playing with the likes of MAB and gus. He gets ripped here all the time because we see him every game. You dont think it would be the same for Suter? What happens if we sign him and he's lost without Weber?

If you trade Carle for picks... then what was the point in acquiring Kubina and Grossman?
- fecondo

Grossman may not be a rental, so trading for him makes sense, Kubina as I said after the trade went down appears strictly to be a rental, made no sense to me.

I had a guy tell me carle turns the puck over every shift and he was serious as a heart attack. When I showed him Carle turns over the puck less than once a game he came up with, well he never hits nobody so we should get suter. I brought up Suter never hits nobody at least not much more than Carle and at least Carle is willing to sacrifice himself by blocking shots more. Then I was told he's the worst excuse of a Defenseman and that this gentleman has been following the team since 1968 and knows more about the team than I do. I let him think he won at that point, Gov. Christie's cutbacks on the mental health care system appeared to have taken an extreme toll to me.
- JoeRussomanno

Carle has 13 more turnovers playing with the likes of MAB and gus. He gets ripped here all the time because we see him every game. You dont think it would be the same for Suter? What happens if we sign him and he's lost without Weber?
- fecondo

The only two defensmen I can think of that were ever immune to criticism on this team are Howe and Pronger. There's no way in hell imo that Suter goes with a total clean slate here. For him to have the teflon effect he will have to double his averages on point production because he's not a physical guy and this town will turn on him like they have Carle. Get suter in the offseason and by spring the debate will be raging on this board about him, I guarantee that.

The thing is, I don't see it as a modest upgrade. Suter gets underrated because he plays with Weber. He's the # 1 d-man on probably 2/3 of the teams in the NHL including the Flyers.
- PLindbergh31

I agree with this. If Carle costs 5 I gladly go up to 7 for Suter. There was a reason the guy is an All-Star, and you can't just accredit that to playing with Weber. Suter @ 7 is the perfect replacement for Kimmo @ 6.5 if you ask me. Having those deals overlap for a year might get tricky to work out but again, there's no guarantee Weber will even be available next year so if Suter hits the market this year you really have to take that shot given our 1-2 situation.

Get suter in the offseason and by spring the debate will be raging on this board about him, I guarantee that.
- JoeRussomanno

There are not many players you can't say this about on this team with these fans. Couturier and Talbot are just about the only two additions I haven't seen people complain about yet this year.

The only two defensmen I can think of that were ever immune to criticism on this team are Howe and Pronger. There's no way in hell imo that Suter goes with a total clean slate here. For him to have the teflon effect he will have to double his averages on point production because he's not a physical guy and this town will turn on him like they have Carle. Get suter in the offseason and by spring the debate will be raging on this board about him, I guarantee that.
- JoeRussomanno

Pronger's career is over, and Timonen is winding down his time in Philly. The Flyers are in need of a top pairing guy. Carle doesn't fit that bill. Not even close. If not Suter, where is the top pairing guy coming from?

The only two defensmen I can think of that were ever immune to criticism on this team are Howe and Pronger. There's no way in hell imo that Suter goes with a total clean slate here. For him to have the teflon effect he will have to double his averages on point production because he's not a physical guy and this town will turn on him like they have Carle. Get suter in the offseason and by spring the debate will be raging on this board about him, I guarantee that.
- JoeRussomanno

Yep. The grass is always greener until it becomes ours and we piss all over it.

The only two defensmen I can think of that were ever immune to criticism on this team are Howe and Pronger. There's no way in hell imo that Suter goes with a total clean slate here. For him to have the teflon effect he will have to double his averages on point production because he's not a physical guy and this town will turn on him like they have Carle. Get suter in the offseason and by spring the debate will be raging on this board about him, I guarantee that.
- JoeRussomanno

I can see it now.... January 2013

Suter effing blows. Why the eff did homer sign him to that deal? He's softer than the charmin i use to wipe my ass.



Book it!

I agree with this. If Carle costs 5 I gladly go up to 7 for Suter. There was a reason the guy is an All-Star, and you can't just accredit that to playing with Weber. Suter @ 7 is the perfect replacement for Kimmo @ 6.5 if you ask me. Having those deals overlap for a year might get tricky to work out but again, there's no guarantee Weber will even be available next year so if Suter hits the market this year you really have to take that shot given our 1-2 situation.
- hereticpride

The only problem I have with this is, you can't base a move of overpaying for a guy this year by thinking there will be nothing next year. There is almost always players available. Problem is the flyers are usually up to the gills in salary that they can't make a move at any given time for the right guy. If a guy isn't 2 million more then don't pay it. Wait it out and see what comes up the pipe.

I agree with this. If Carle costs 5 I gladly go up to 7 for Suter. There was a reason the guy is an All-Star, and you can't just accredit that to playing with Weber. Suter @ 7 is the perfect replacement for Kimmo @ 6.5 if you ask me. Having those deals overlap for a year might get tricky to work out but again, there's no guarantee Weber will even be available next year so if Suter hits the market this year you really have to take that shot given our 1-2 situation.
- hereticpride

this would never happen, but picture Suter in Columbus, (struggling team), & playing with one of their D men, (Tyutin or Methot?), and then becoming a UFA, would he command a rumored $6.5 or 7 then??

Pronger's career is over, and Timonen is winding down his time in Philly. The Flyers are in need of a top pairing guy. Carle doesn't fit that bill. Not even close. If not Suter, where is the top pairing guy coming from?
- PLindbergh31

That would be the seven million dollar question. If it's not Suter, can you think of anybody who could be targeted for a trade?

Pronger's career is over, and Timonen is winding down his time in Philly. The Flyers are in need of a top pairing guy. Carle doesn't fit that bill. Not even close. If not Suter, where is the top pairing guy coming from?
- PLindbergh31

I don't know but in 2007 I told you in two years we were getting Pronger you probably would have laughed in my face. I never would have predicted it but the point is, patience is a virtue. Why overpay for a guy that may or not be the best for that position? What weber like guy do we have for him to play here with? Carle looked completely different playing with Pronger too so if we got a guy of that caliber somehow, you'd basically have your number two guy ready to step in and at 2 million less. The same 2 million that might be the difference in getting said Pronger replacement.

The question is, do you pay $7mm for Suter or $5mm or so for Carle? IMO, Suter's not worth $2mm more than Carle.
- Jsaquella

agreed

While we're on the Suter topic, it's important to remember that if the Preds do well in the playoffs, he's probably resigned, so he's not a definite option yet.

I can see it now.... January 2013

Suter effing blows. Why the eff did homer sign him to that deal? He's softer than the charmin i use to wipe my ass.



Book it!
- fecondo

Oh it will happen. It's really hard for any player with a big contract to avoid criticism in Philly let alone on the Flyers. Problem is like the case with Carle a lot of his criticism is unfounded and exaggerated which leads me to think the same will happen with Suter whom will be on a much bigger contract.

That would be the seven million dollar question. If it's not Suter, can you think of anybody who could be targeted for a trade?
- BulliesPhan87

No I can't. Top pairing d-men aren't exactly growing on trees. Teams don't trade them very often. Free Agency is the most realistic way to add one.

I'm not saying Suter is Chara, Weber, or Pronger, but he's better than Matt Carle. You are getting Suter to replace Timonen in actuality. Suter has every bit the chance to be as good if not better than Kimmo has been. Is that worth paying 7mm for? I say definitely yes.

I don't know but in 2007 I told you in two years we were getting Pronger you probably would have laughed in my face. I never would have predicted it but the point is, patience is a virtue. Why overpay for a guy that may or not be the best for that position? What weber like guy do we have for him to play here with? Carle looked completely different playing with Pronger too so if we got a guy of that caliber somehow, you'd basically have your number two guy ready to step in and at 2 million less. The same 2 million that might be the difference in getting said Pronger replacement.
- JoeRussomanno

Well if you aren't willing to give Suter 7mm, don't waste money giving Carle 5+. That doesn't make any sense.