I will be surprised if Parise gets an 8M cap hit.. And Kovalchuk's contract was adjusted. Originally the cap hit was even less than that. Brad Richards - 6.66 cap hit.. (Totally legal contract)

EJ will not get 6M now.. Landeskog will not get 6M his first contract unless he is a 40/30 guy.

Ok beyond that.. By the time Seimens contract costs us that much.. (3-5 years down the road) The cap would need to go from 64.3M to 73.25 if people got contracts like what your talking about. I wont even argue since we don't know. But know I don't agree on a few of those.

Last years raise.. 4.9M

"Teams will have US$64.3 million to spend next season, an increase from $59.4 million"

I think in 3-5 years the salary cap could easily see a raise of 8.95M (8.95/4 = 2.24M per year.) Easily doable..

Yes, if we take them out, then we are still fairly close to the cap ceiling but then we have some very big holes. As time goes on the avs will get better, and pay their core players well. We will hit a point where we need some depth or have a large hole in our roster that needs to be fixed and I think stastny will just be the one that ends up being shipped out.
- Meeqsb

how is 73.25m - 15.5m = 69.0m (The projected cap ceiling for next season)
Seriously we are fine now and for the future.

None of our centers will cost 8M plus per year.. Not the same thing. (You continue to ignore this)

The cap will change by the time they need raises and other guys will be locked up past that time. Years later when Duchene + O'Reilly need raises it again will not be that much. But the movement in cap would again cover it.
- Steve-B

You can't predict how the cap will go. While the sport has grown over the past few years along with the cap, there are quite a few clubs who are having serious issues with the cap and this could also make it go down.

Even if we take the 6M that we gain from having 2 5M centers rather than 8m, what are you going to do with it. We could upgrade 1 position, maybe 2 but it still wont change too much.

He is a #2 overall pick and he has only gotten better. Historically its about as safe of a bet that you can make for a player in his position. I also haven't seen a player like him in the league in a very long time. This is still 2 more seasons out so it is a guess. He wont get 6 right away but if feel at some point in his career he absolutely will. His next contract will prolly be between 3.8-5.
- Meeqsb

Van Riemsdyk will be the precedent at 4.2. You can see that happening if he keeps on progressing and playing like he can and continues to do so.

You can't predict how the cap will go. While the sport has grown over the past few years along with the cap, there are quite a few clubs who are having serious issues with the cap and this could also make it go down.

Even if we take the 6M that we gain from having 2 5M centers rather than 8m, what are you going to do with it. We could upgrade 1 position, maybe 2 but it still wont change too much.
- Meeqsb

It's not only about the league growing. It has a lot to do with inflation to.. That is why teams lock up players long term. So it give the cap a chance to move while their cap hit stays the same.

With the roster I proposed pretty much everyone would have a contract over 2 years and most 3 years at least. With a large amount of our core players and the UFA's having 5 plus year contracts. I think we would be fine moving forward.

If It was like you say no team would ever spend to the cap because it would handcuff them. But no.. They spend to the cap locking guys up so that they can save.. or use what cap space is added to their advantage.

I will be surprised if Parise gets an 8M cap hit.. And Kovalchuk's contract was adjusted. Originally the cap hit was even less than that. Brad Richards - 6.66 cap hit.. (Totally legal contract)

EJ will not get 6M now.. Landeskog will not get 6M his first contract unless he is a 40/30 guy.

Ok beyond that.. By the time Seimens contract costs us that much.. (3-5 years down the road) The cap would need to go from 64.3M to 73.25 if people got contracts like what your talking about. I wont even argue since we don't know. But know I don't agree on a few of those.

Last years raise.. 4.9M

"Teams will have US$64.3 million to spend next season, an increase from $59.4 million"

I think in 3-5 years the salary cap could easily see a raise of 8.95M (8.95/4 = 2.24M per year.) Easily doable..
- Steve-B

If parise gets less than 7M I will be SHOCKED. Who knows though.

You can't know what the cap will do, assuming that it will continue to constantly increase at that rate is foolish and a lack of mathematical skills.

3-5 years from now is what will matter. If lando gets 40-30 he will get 6.5 if not 8 with the way he plays. Numbers like that would put him with a tad under stamkos and Nash

Van Riemsdyk will be the precedent at 4.2. You can see that happening if he keeps on progressing and playing like he can and continues to do so.
- DDM-Coga

Thats a great comparison.

If parise gets less than 7M I will be SHOCKED. Who knows though.

You can't know what the cap will do, assuming that it will continue to constantly increase at that rate is foolish and a lack of mathematical skills.

3-5 years from now is what will matter. If lando gets 40-30 he will get 6.5 if not 8 with the way he plays. Numbers like that would put him with a tad under stamkos and Nash
- Meeqsb

Most of my posts give him a 7M cap hit.. Not under 7M..

I think you can count on the cap going up a certain amount.. It's not lack the mathematical skills its foresight.. And easily expected based on trends from the past.

It's not only about the league growing. It has a lot to do with inflation to.. That is why teams lock up players long term. So it give the cap a chance to move while their cap hit stays the same.

With the roster I proposed pretty much everyone would have a contract over 2 years and most 3 years at least. With a large amount of our core players and the UFA's having 5 plus year contracts. I think we would be fine moving forward.

If It was like you say no team would ever spend to the cap because it would handcuff them. But no.. They spend to the cap locking guys up so that they can save.. or use what cap space is added to their advantage.
- Steve-B

The idea of economical inflation and predicting the Cap requires an in depth knowledge of the business model of the league, revenue sharing and a solid understanding of statistics. I dont believe either of us have the credibility to make assumptions about it. What you are saying is the super dumbed down vague idea of how some things work but its not anything that can hold any weight.

Most of my posts give him a 7M cap hit.. Not under 7M..

I think you can count on the cap going up a certain amount.. It's not lack the mathematical skills its foresight.. And easily expected based on trends from the past.
- Steve-B

There are between 4-7 teams in the NHL right now who are losing large amounts of money. If you raise the cap Ceiling you also have to raise the cap floor which would be a large problem for quite a few teams.

Also the model is not a linear one and there are a large number of variables that make it very complicated to project.

I want to say that everything that has been mentioned so far has been correct and you all obviously have a good knowledge of the NHL. This is all a difference in opinion between how we view this situation. I am having a bunch of fun hearing different points of view though.

The avs still need 2 more top 6 wingers and a top 2 dman to be a very solid team.

If we give away stastny then we can afford to have superstar level players like Parise and Suter with out it affecting our depth.

If you want to go with 3 centers and make a very deep and solid team then you can't afford many if any players that make more than 6M.

I.E. 4 players that make 5m each or 2 players that make 7 and 2 that make 3.

What I want to know is whether you want to go with Depth or skill?

I want to say that everything that has been mentioned so far has been correct and you all obviously have a good knowledge of the NHL. This is all a difference in opinion between how we view this situation. I am having a bunch of fun hearing different points of view though.
- Meeqsb

Yeah I always enjoy a good debate, especially when people are not trolling.

Nothing will be proven until this off-season and some of it for 3-5 years. I do know one thing.. What management does this off-season will tell us if we are a sleeping cap team or really have turned into a budget team. If you go by what ownership has said.. They will spend again to make us competitive, but they have yet to prove it.

I am looking at their comments with a glass half full mentality until proven otherwise.

(I think we have the flexibility to do both.. That is my argument or difference of opinion)

Yeah I always enjoy a good debate, especially when people are not trolling.

Nothing will be proven until this off-season and some of it for 3-5 years. I do know one thing.. What management does this off-season will tell us if we are a sleeping cap team or really have turned into a budget team. If you go by what ownership has said.. They will spend again to make us competitive, but they have yet to prove it.

I am looking at their comments with a glass half full mentality until proven otherwise.

(I think we have the flexibility to do both.. That is my argument or difference of opinion)
- Steve-B

nashville is a budget team because they trade away their players that make too much money and have an internal cap.

We just have a young team with a bunch of entry level contracts. Avs owner ship is just waiting for the enrty level deals so the core players have the main contracts.

Yeah I always enjoy a good debate, especially when people are not trolling.

Nothing will be proven until this off-season and some of it for 3-5 years. I do know one thing.. What management does this off-season will tell us if we are a sleeping cap team or really have turned into a budget team. If you go by what ownership has said.. They will spend again to make us competitive, but they have yet to prove it.

I am looking at their comments with a glass half full mentality until proven otherwise.

(I think we have the flexibility to do both.. That is my argument or difference of opinion)
- Steve-B

The way I look at it isnt "what we CAN do" but where do you want to be, how well will it work, how long will it work, and can we keep it up.

nashville is a budget team because they trade away their players that make too much money and have an internal cap.

We just have a young team with a bunch of entry level contracts. Avs owner ship is just waiting for the enrty level deals so the core players have the main contracts.
- Meeqsb

And.. I think that even after we lock those guys up we still have room to add 1 or 2 high end UFA's without it hurting us long term. That is where our opinions differ.. mostly

And.. I think that even after we lock those guys up we still have room to add 1 or 2 high end UFA's without it hurting us long term. That is where our opinions differ.. mostly
- Steve-B

No I actually agree with that. I am just not sure how realistic it would be to obtain them. The avs are very smart. So what ever they do, I dont have to worry its the wrong decision.

I will just state that I prefer the avs to take the Bruins route. Just keep Signing players that are great for their position. Rather than superstars such as Parise and Suter. Which is why I think the Downie deal and Mcginn deal were fantastic as they are both great 3rd liners. Then just draft well and sign well.

My usual mentality is that your core guys should be drafted or traded for. I think having 3 centers makes things complicated, mostly having our 3rd best center in stastny being the one who is paid the most.

I like deals like the one for Leopold, where we recieved a 2nd(elliot) and wilson in return. When the avs have the scouts that they do I think this is how we can become a great team. A deal that looks like Buffalo's 1st and Armia for Stastny would be a steal and just what this team needs to be solid top to bottom. A center thats good now for 2 players that will be core yet good in about 3-5(when the rest of the avs will be good).

I dont like it when teams go out and sign players like richards or gabby or get Nash. I just think UFA's are always overpaid and cause problems more times than not. Its getting better but its still something I dont care for.

I also love building a GREAT D so I wouldn't mind Suter.

Also on a side note I loved the Jones Stastny Mcginn line. Those wingers are what stastny needs this year. Same with the Mueller Duchene Olver/hejduk line.
Both play to the centers styles.

No I actually agree with that. I am just not sure how realistic it would be to obtain them. The avs are very smart. So what ever they do, I dont have to worry its the wrong decision.

I will just state that I prefer the avs to take the Bruins route. Just keep Signing players that are great for their position. Rather than superstars such as Parise and Suter. Which is why I think the Downie deal and Mcginn deal were fantastic as they are both great 3rd liners. Then just draft well and sign well.

My usual mentality is that your core guys should be drafted or traded for. I think having 3 centers makes things complicated, mostly having our 3rd best center in stastny being the one who is paid the most.

I like deals like the one for Leopold, where we recieved a 2nd(elliot) and wilson in return. When the avs have the scouts that they do I think this is how we can become a great team. A deal that looks like Buffalo's 1st and Armia for Stastny would be a steal and just what this team needs to be solid top to bottom. A center thats good now for 2 players that will be core yet good in about 3-5(when the rest of the avs will be good).

I dont like it when teams go out and sign players like richards or gabby or get Nash. I just think UFA's are always overpaid and cause problems more times than not. Its getting better but its still something I dont care for.

I also love building a GREAT D so I wouldn't mind Suter.

Also on a side note I loved the Jones Stastny Mcginn line. Those wingers are what stastny needs this year. Same with the Mueller Duchene Olver/hejduk line.
Both play to the centers styles.
- Meeqsb

Fair enough..

I do like that line.. But I am kind of on this Power forward/Grinder with skilled guys thing. (McGinn - Duchene - Mueller) Stastny I think needs a little more skill on his line. Mueller is perfect for Duchene and if he works out and gets better especially in the off season. That problem is solved..

With Stastny I think he needs a sniper or at least another skilled shooter/playmaker on his line. Jones is fine as the big body drive to the net guy on that line. Which is why I push hard for the idea of Parise/Semin to be signed to play with Stastny. Obviously Parise is the best option because we "know" he is a character guy and has chemistry with Stastny.

I don't believe a lot of the poop that is said about Alex Semin being lazy or any of that. The same type of lazy & selfish comments were said about Varly but none were true. The capitals have a very hazy negativity that surrounds them because of their failures in the playoffs.

One of the areas we differ as well.. I do think we could be a contender with the No.2 D and No.1 LW positions filled as well. Especially by two character guys like Parise & Suter.

Duchene already had a 67 point season. Give him some stability.. Stastny already had two 70+ point seasons. Give them both some stability... It is looking like O'Reilly has his wingers or at least one of them on lock for a very long time.

Jay is the PERFECT 4th line center. He can fill in as a defensive center (3rd line type) when injuries hit and play the PK. He fits his role to a T..

I am looking at our top 9 and our 4th line center. As well as our most important D pairing.. EJ + Whoever..

Fair enough..

I do like that line.. But I am kind of on this Power forward/Grinder with skilled guys thing. (McGinn - Duchene - Mueller) Stastny I think needs a little more skill on his line. Mueller is perfect for Duchene and if he works out and gets better especially in the off season. That problem is solved..

With Stastny I think he needs a sniper or at least another skilled shooter/playmaker on his line. Jones is fine as the big body drive to the net guy on that line. Which is why I push hard for the idea of Parise/Semin to be signed to play with Stastny. Obviously Parise is the best option because we "know" he is a character guy and has chemistry with Stastny.

I don't believe a lot of the poop that is said about Alex Semin being lazy or any of that. The same type of lazy & selfish comments were said about Varly but none were true. The capitals have a very hazy negativity that surrounds them because of their failures in the playoffs.

One of the areas we differ as well.. I do think we could be a contender with the No.2 D and No.1 LW positions filled as well. Especially by two character guys like Parise & Suter.

Duchene already had a 67 point season. Give him some stability.. Stastny already had two 70+ point seasons. Give them both some stability... It is looking like O'Reilly has his wingers or at least one of them on lock for a very long time.

Jay is the PERFECT 4th line center. He can fill in as a defensive center (3rd line type) when injuries hit and play the PK. He fits his role to a T..

I am looking at our top 9 and our 4th line center. As well as our most important D pairing.. EJ + Whoever..
- Steve-B

What I would do is lets say trade stastny for sutter and make a more potent line up. poop lets say we get Parise too, if we did I would do something like:

Lando Raydar Parise
Mueller Duchene (another top 6 winger) Lets say someone like Hishon, or Olver for now. Hell lets imagine a player like Clowe.
Mcginn (Go out and get a solid 3rd line center, a young Vermette! Maybe Mathias out of Fla) Downie
Malone JayMac (A large body that specialized in PK)

EJ Suter
seimens Elliot
Wilson O'Byrne (another large body Dman who is good at PK)

Varly
Giggy/attikalo/pickard

This is more of a team that is to my liking and is A LOT like the bruins. You have a solid top and bottom 6. Size, speed,skill. A team that can grow together like Pit. Not as Cap intensive. All players that are very skilled for their slot.

What I would do is lets say trade stastny for sutter and make a more potent line up. poop lets say we get Parise too, if we did I would do something like:

Lando Raydar Parise
Mueller Duchene (another top 6 winger) Lets say someone like Hishon, or Olver for now. Hell lets imagine a player like Clowe.
Mcginn (Go out and get a solid 3rd line center, a young Vermette! Maybe Mathias out of Fla) Downie
Malone JayMac (A large body that specialized in PK)

EJ Suter
seimens Elliot
Wilson O'Byrne (another large body Dman who is good at PK)

Varly
Giggy/attikalo/pickard

This is more of a team that is to my liking and is A LOT like the bruins. You have a solid top and bottom 6. Size, speed,skill. A team that can grow together like Pit. Not as Cap intensive. All players that are very skilled for their slot.
- Meeqsb

Not bad but I think McGinn has Stewart but with more heart written all over him.. Stewy started out as a grinder/fighter on our team and found chemistry with Stastny.. I think McGinn could find that with Duchene given how much speed he has. He has shown he has hands and a good shot.

It's hard to imagine breaking up Landeskog - O'Reilly - Downie as young and talented as all three are. Especially with all three having the same.. "Put it all on the ice attitudes" When they are clicking.. That line can matchup against any line in the NHL and often score at the same time.

Oh and your going to need Stastny as a draw for Parise.. I just don't get why you wouldn't put this together if you could..

Parise - Stastny - Jones/Another grinder/Powerforward

McGinn - Duchene - Mueller (McGinn is a natural LW and Mueller is right handed.. I think he fits better on the right side.)

Landeskog - O'Reilly - Downie (All playing in their natural positions)

You could lock everyone up besides Mueller and Jones long term this off-season. And even then Mueller and Jones would probably get 2-3 year deals. The rest would probably have 4-5 year deals each or longer. In two years you use the available cap space to give raises and make decisions on who of those two to bring back and how much they should get. Jones probably not much.. But yeah by then Mueller and Varly would probably split what ever cap space had been added in the next 2-3 years for the most part.

In 2 years you would need about 5M to give raises to Varly, Mueller, Landeskog.. (Realize you add 1.5M to Landeskog's salary and he makes 5M a year.. 1.5 + 2 + 2 = 5.5M.. by then there is a good chance Jiggy is retired and your backup makes less than a million or around that.

That is 3 off seasons to gain that much space when last year the cap went up by 4M..

Landeskog - 5M

Mueller - 4M

Varly - 4.8M

Not bad but I think McGinn has Stewart but with more heart written all over him.. Stewy started out as a grinder/fighter on our team and found chemistry with Stastny.. I think McGinn could find that with Duchene given how much speed he has. He has shown he has hands and a good shot.

It's hard to imagine breaking up Landeskog - O'Reilly - Downie as young and talented as all three are. Especially with all three having the same.. "Put it all on the ice attitudes" When they are clicking.. That line can matchup against any line in the NHL and often score at the same time.

Oh and your going to need Stastny as a draw for Parise..
- Steve-B

Downie and Mcginn are doing a good job now but if you want to win a cup, then they are 3rd liners that can play on the top 6 if needed (like Kelly and peverly from boston). They are very good but they were brought in to be 3rd liners. You really have to be realistic and not over value our guys.
Landy and Raydar will play well with anyone, but with Parise they become a dominant offensive force.

Contrary to popular belief Parise can play with other players rather than stastny.

Thats just the team that I would like to see. I dont think Jones or Stastny really have a solid place on this team the way I would build it. Like I said, thats the team I would build.

Downie and Mcginn are doing a good job now but if you want to win a cup, then they are 3rd liners that can play on the top 6 if needed (like Kelly and peverly from boston). They are very good but they were brought in to be 3rd liners. You really have to be realistic and not over value our guys.
Landy and Raydar will play well with anyone, but with Parise they become a dominant offensive force.

Contrary to popular belief Parise can play with other players rather than stastny.

Thats just the team that I would like to see. I dont think Jones or Stastny really have a solid place on this team the way I would build it. Like I said, thats the team I would build.
- Meeqsb

Yeah I know he can play with more than just Stastny, but Stastny would be the best draw to get him to sign beyond money alone.

I don't agree about Downie and McGinn if your building a balanced top 9. They are fine as 20/20 guys


My eyes are getting crossed.. haha we will have to continue this as the Season/Off-Season progresses.

Not bad but I think McGinn has Stewart but with more heart written all over him.. Stewy started out as a grinder/fighter on our team and found chemistry with Stastny.. I think McGinn could find that with Duchene given how much speed he has. He has shown he has hands and a good shot.

It's hard to imagine breaking up Landeskog - O'Reilly - Downie as young and talented as all three are. Especially with all three having the same.. "Put it all on the ice attitudes" When they are clicking.. That line can matchup against any line in the NHL and often score at the same time.

Oh and your going to need Stastny as a draw for Parise.. I just don't get why you wouldn't put this together if you could..

In 2 years you would need about 5M to give raises to Varly, Mueller, Landeskog.. (Realize you add 1.5M to Landeskog's salary and he makes 5M a year.. 1.5 + 2 + 2 = 5.5M.. by then there is a good chance Jiggy is retired and your backup makes less than a million or around that.

That is 3 off seasons to gain that much space when last year the cap went up by 4M..

Landeskog - 5M

Mueller - 4M

Varly - 4.8M

Parise - Stastny - Jones/Another grinder/Powerforward

McGinn - Duchene - Mueller (McGinn is a natural LW and Mueller is right handed.. I think he fits better on the right side.)

Landeskog - O'Reilly - Downie (All playing in their natural positions)

You could lock everyone up besides Mueller and Jones long term this off-season. And even then Mueller and Jones would probably get 2-3 year deals. The rest would probably have 4-5 year deals each or longer. In two years you use the available cap space to give raises and make decisions on who of those two to bring back and how much they should get. Jones probably not much.. But yeah by then Mueller and Varly would probably split what ever cap space had been added in the next 2-3 years for the most part.
- Steve-B

I just don't like the make up of the team. I don't care for 3 lines with 1 top 6 winger and 1 bottom 6 winger. I also don't like having 3 top 6 centers. Its just a personal preference. It just feels like your lineup is Diluted. I'd rather have 2 top 6 lines. 1 in Raydars with just a dominant 2 way game that can play 200 feet of the ice no matter who they play and a Line with speed and crazy skill in Duchene's line.

Then a 3rd line which hits, grinds, wears down the other team and has the skill to score plenty of goals. Finally a 4rth line who can fight, is even more mean and specializes in draws and specializes in defense and the PK.

Your line up just doesn't seem like a team that can win the cup.

If anything I think the Avs D has more questions than the offense.

Yeah I know he can play with more than just Stastny, but Stastny would be the best draw to get him to sign beyond money alone.

I don't agree about Downie and McGinn if your building a balanced top 9. They are fine as 20/20 guys


My eyes are getting crossed.. haha we will have to continue this as the Season/Off-Season progresses.
- Steve-B

I dont like the idea of a top 9. However Stastny would be a good asset to help bring in Parise, however he would most likely be too expensive for the avs taste.

You know what trade I want to make, Stastny, barrie and a 4th to STL for Backes and Tarasenko !

Lmao I have no idea why the blues would do that but I would bust a nut for those 2 players. NHL 12 here I come!

I just don't like the make up of the team. I don't care for 3 lines with 1 top 6 winger and 1 bottom 6 winger. I also don't like having 3 top 6 centers. Its just a personal preference. It just feels like your lineup is Diluted. I'd rather have 2 top 6 lines. 1 in Raydars with just a dominant 2 way game that can play 200 feet of the ice no matter who they play and a Line with speed and crazy skill in Duchene's line.

Then a 3rd line which hits, grinds, wears down the other team and has the skill to score plenty of goals. Finally a 4rth line who can fight, is even more mean and specializes in draws and specializes in defense and the PK.

Your line up just doesn't seem like a team that can win the cup.

If anything I think the Avs D has more questions than the offense.
- Meeqsb

Parise is extremely good defensively.. So is Stastny.. Both are sick two way players for their position. A little different than Landeskog/O'Reilly but only because they have more offensive skill. Duchene's line is the only thing close to being a liability defensively. But Mueller is not actually that bad.. McGinn is a beast fore-checker.. And Duchene is still developing. I would give their line the best "shut down" pair.

The other lines are all highly skilled and defensively responsible. I am telling you there is serious data to support that while playing with Downie, Stamkos put up better numbers. In the same article I read they compare them to other skill/grinder tandems like Giroux & Hartnell. In every case the skilled guys production increased by a certain percentage. Lucic & Bergeron were another one.. if I remember correctly.

I think my lineup creates nightmares for opposing teams to match up against. Who do you waste your top defensive guys against? While your doing that the other two lines are running you around the ice..

Like say Stastny's line gets the other teams "3rd line" then O'Reilly's line gets the other teams 1st line.. Duchene gets to run around against another unit that is not nearly as good defensively. While McGinn creates space and Mueller + Duchene make plays all day..