Define "dirty".

Kronwall had Jake in his sights before Jake even touched the puck, but Kronwall never made a play on the puck...he went for the man and TARGETED the head.

To me, that's the essence of dirty.
- wolfhounds

When a player clearly boards a player from behind, it's dirty, you are talking about not only potentially ending a players career, but putting him in a wheelchair.

Vorcaek had his head down, that is main reason the hit/injury occurred. Had his head been up, he would have been either been able to avoid the hit, or brace himself.

Rule 48 - Illegal Check to the Head

48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact is not permitted. However, in determining whether such a hit should have been permitted, the circumstances of the hit, including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit or the head contact on an otherwise legal body check was avoidable, can be considered.

48.2 Minor Penalty - For violation of this rule, a minor penalty shall be assessed.

48.3 Major Penalty - There is no provision for a major penalty for this rule.

48.4 Game Misconduct Penalty – There is no provision for a major penalty for this rule.

48.5 Match Penalty - The Referee, at his discretion, may assess a match penalty if, in his judgment, the player attempted to or deliberately injured his opponent with an illegal check to the head.
If deemed appropriate, supplementary discipline can be applied by the Commissioner at his discretion.

48.6 Fines and Suspensions – Any player who incurs a total of two (2) game misconducts under this rule, in either regular League or playoff games, shall be suspended automatically for the next game his team plays. For each subsequent game misconduct penalty the automatic suspension shall be increased by one game.

If deemed appropriate, supplementary discipline can be applied by the Commissioner at his discretion (refer to Rule 28).

There's the language that will be referred to when Shanahan declines to suspend Kronwall
- Jsaquella

I believe that it will be taken into consideration. But I'll be shocked if there is no suspension.

If deemed appropriate, supplementary discipline can be applied by the Commissioner at his discretion (refer to Rule 28).

There's the language that will be referred to when Shanahan declines to suspend Kronwall
- Jsaquella

What do the rules say about not trying to make a play on the puck in conjunction with lining up a player for a headshot before the player has touched the puck?

Rule 48 - Illegal Check to the Head

48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact is not permitted. However, in determining whether such a hit should have been permitted, the circumstances of the hit, including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit or the head contact on an otherwise legal body check was avoidable, can be considered.

48.2 Minor Penalty - For violation of this rule, a minor penalty shall be assessed.

48.3 Major Penalty - There is no provision for a major penalty for this rule.

48.4 Game Misconduct Penalty – There is no provision for a major penalty for this rule.

48.5 Match Penalty - The Referee, at his discretion, may assess a match penalty if, in his judgment, the player attempted to or deliberately injured his opponent with an illegal check to the head.
If deemed appropriate, supplementary discipline can be applied by the Commissioner at his discretion.

48.6 Fines and Suspensions – Any player who incurs a total of two (2) game misconducts under this rule, in either regular League or playoff games, shall be suspended automatically for the next game his team plays. For each subsequent game misconduct penalty the automatic suspension shall be increased by one game.

If deemed appropriate, supplementary discipline can be applied by the Commissioner at his discretion (refer to Rule 28).

There's the language that will be referred to when Shanahan declines to suspend Kronwall
- Jsaquella

i think you're missing the point of where it says immedately prior or simultaneous to. that is NOT the case in this incident

I love big hits. but kronwall is a head hunter.
- flyfan1212

Yeah me too and it's one thing to receive a suicide pass or to have your head down but on a play like the one tonight and the many many other similar types of plays that Kromwell regularly executes, the player [victim] in these instances has absolutely zero chance of avoiding it or readying themselves for it.

It should absolutely be a suspendable hit. It was a predatory hit that targeted the head. It's exactly the kind of hit the NHL is trying to do away with.
- MJL

There was contact to the head only because Voracek's head was down. The ONLY way Kronwall avoids head contact is to avoid contact altogether.

This is the problem with legislating head shots. If Chara hits Briere with a hip check, he is going to hit Briere in the head. There is making contact with the head, and there is targeting the head. IMO opinion Kronwall did not target his head. He hit him straight on, not from the side. If Voracek is upright it is a shoulder to the chest. Then are we all still female doging?


The hit will be reviewed, but I would be surprised if he even gets fined, let alone suspended.

Yeah me too and it's one thing to receive a suicide pass or to have your head down but on a play like the one tonight and the many many other similar types of plays that Kromwell regularly executes, the player
- Pixote Andolini[victim] in these instances has absolutely zero chance of avoiding it or readying themselves for it.

Which is precisely why, IMO, that you don't see most defenseman looking to make those types of plays.

any initial reports on Jake?

When a player clearly boards a player from behind, it's dirty, you are talking about not only potentially ending a players career, but putting him in a wheelchair.

Vorcaek had his head down, that is main reason the hit/injury occurred. Had his head been up, he would have been either been able to avoid the hit, or brace himself.
- PLindbergh31

Voracek had been on the ice a long time, they needed a clear...Kronwall never made a play on the puck as he clearly could have and instead lined up and started skating into Jake before he ever touched the puck.

I love big hits. but kronwall is a head hunter.
- flyfan1212

i agree in theory with tocchet... but the reality is the NHL said all hits targeting the head are supposed to be out of the game. which is why i am (frank)ing livid there was no call here. oh and nice job leaving him dead on the ice wiggling his arms over his head. classy.

if rinaldo did that to helm what would have happened?

I agree. I said in a earlier post that it wasn't a penalty in terms of being an elbow or a charge or anything like that. But it was a clear hit to the head that Kronwall had time to avoid.

Sometimes, hits to the head happen because one or both players is moving so fast, or in an unanticipated manner, that the hit can't be avoided. I don't think this was such a case. Kronwall has all day to line him up, and could still have made a very effective play, and a crushing hit with out hitting Voracek in the head. He chose not to do so. It's that conscious decision to hit Voracek in the head that makes it a reviewable/suspendable hit in my opinion.

That said, I still want to see a Flyer rip Zetterberg's head off with a similar hit. That's the only way to stop a guy like Kronwall, is to start making his teammates pay for his decisions.
- BringBack25

Absolutely. That's the whole point. Regardless of what Voracek did. Kronwall could have let up and avoided it. Instead, he saw a chance to take a killer hit on a defenseless player.

Absolutely. That's the whole point. Regardless of what Voracek did. Kronwall could have let up and avoided it. Instead, he saw a chance to take a killer hit on a defenseless player.
- MJL

Which is one of the caveats that Shanahan talks about when reviewing hits and suspendability.

Kromwell is one of the dirtiest players in the league with that exact play. He tried it a couple of times earlier in the game and missed. Head contact aside, it's actually technically a 'clean' hit. The thing that makes it dirty though is every defenseman that plays hockey at an organized level can execute this hit regularly but they don't. The only skill involved in a hit like that is like you mentioned - bating the winger on the breakout into thinking he's backing up and then zooming in to connect just as the player gets the puck and has barely had a chance to turn forward. He does this hit time and time again. Ask yourself why is it that Kromwell is the only defenseman consistently making this play? Is he just that above and beyond skill level to be able to execute it? League needs to get rid of the instigator rule. Also on Rinaldo trying to talk smack with him and initiate with him - go back to the Volchenkov/Briere stuff. Volchenkov is another one of those dirty 'clean' hitting defenseman. They'll never fight back or shove or push back. You're gunna get a penalty called on you anyway might as well just tackled them down and get some shots in.
- Pixote Andolini

funny you mention that. i had just been muttering to my husband that they needed to keep their heads up because kronwall will kill someone with no qualms at all.

There was contact to the head only because Voracek's head was down. The ONLY way Kronwall avoids head contact is to avoid contact altogether.

This is the problem with legislating head shots. If Chara hits Briere with a hip check, he is going to hit Briere in the head. There is making contact with the head, and there is targeting the head. IMO opinion Kronwall did not target his head. He hit him straight on, not from the side. If Voracek is upright its a shoulder to the chest.


The hit will be reviewed, but I would be surprised if he even gets fined, let alone suspended.
- MBFlyerfan

I don't agree at all. I see it as pretty much a guaranteed suspension. Maybe I'm wrong, but Kronwall had plenty of time to pull up.

Kronwall tried to ko Patrick Sharp this past Sunday almost the exact same way he got Voracek. Sharp saw him in time.

But Kronwall never saw Sheldon Souray coming in this lockout era fight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8OIZ8rsgXg

i agree in theory with tocchet... but the reality is the NHL said all hits targeting the head are supposed to be out of the game. which is why i am (frank)ing livid there was no call here. oh and nice job leaving him dead on the ice wiggling his arms over his head. classy.

if rinaldo did that to helm what would have happened?
- Don'tForgetTocchet

5 min major and game misconduct followed by 5 game suspension

i agree in theory with tocchet... but the reality is the NHL said all hits targeting the head are supposed to be out of the game. which is why i am (frank)ing livid there was no call here. oh and nice job leaving him dead on the ice wiggling his arms over his head. classy.

if rinaldo did that to helm what would have happened?
- Don'tForgetTocchet

very good points, i also felt where tocch was coming from

i think you're missing the point of where it says immedately prior or simultaneous to. that is NOT the case in this incident
- flyerscup2011

Exactly. He had Voracek lined up in his sights.

I don't agree at all. I see it as pretty much a guaranteed suspension. Maybe I'm wrong, but Kronwall had plenty of time to pull up.
- MJL

why pull up when that kind of hit was the intention in the first place?

I agree. I said in a earlier post that it wasn't a penalty in terms of being an elbow or a charge or anything like that. But it was a clear hit to the head that Kronwall had time to avoid.

Sometimes, hits to the head happen because one or both players is moving so fast, or in an unanticipated manner, that the hit can't be avoided. I don't think this was such a case. Kronwall has all day to line him up, and could still have made a very effective play, and a crushing hit with out hitting Voracek in the head. He chose not to do so. It's that conscious decision to hit Voracek in the head that makes it a reviewable/suspendable hit in my opinion.

That said, I still want to see a Flyer rip Zetterberg's head off with a similar hit. That's the only way to stop a guy like Kronwall, is to start making his teammates pay for his decisions.
- BringBack25

i agree, make em pay

There was contact to the head only because Voracek's head was down. The ONLY way Kronwall avoids head contact is to avoid contact altogether.

- MBFlyerfan

You keep saying this but it is simply not true. Kronwall had all day to line up Voracek and hit him. He had plenty of time to avoid his head if he had chosen to do so. He didn't. He made a conscious decision to hit Voracek in the head, when he had plenty of time to avoid it

This is exactly the type of hit the league is trying to remove from the game, and it is the decision by Kronwall to make the head hit when he had a choice that I think should earn him a suspension.

It's up already

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QtipTlOscg

Somebody get the video on the site...it won't let me...

5 min major and game misconduct followed by 5 game suspension
- Marc D

exactly my guess

day in and day out, nhl officiating continues to nauseate the fan base, particularly ours. what happened out there is a disgrace, and while it might not have been the smartest thing to do, the flyers needed to go after him right then and there. of course, the game gets chippy because the refs failed to do their job, and the flyers end up on the short end of the stick. complete and utter shock.

(frank) you, kronwall, (frank) you refs. and (frank) you, shanny, in advance, because you won't do a gddamn thing. this is the third recent hit that warranted a suspension, let alone a (frank)ing major and nothing happened.

great, and now jagr is out. wonderful.

You keep saying this but it is simply not true. Kronwall had all day to line up Voracek and hit him. He had plenty of time to avoid his head if he had chosen to do so. He didn't. He made a conscious decision to hit Voracek in the head, when he had plenty of time to avoid it

This is exactly the type of hit the league is trying to remove from the game, and it is the decision by Kronwall to make the head hit when he had a choice that I think should earn him a suspension.
- BringBack25

plus he bated him, plus he has a history of similar behavior. it's just a dirty play by a dirty player. he absolutely better be suspended. if not shanahan is going to get a nasty tweet from me