Yupper

I said 'Goal' on that Filpulla (sp?) shot in the 3rd...he floated left and Bryz was still on the other pipe, but Bryz pulled out that save. F'n sweet!
- wolfhounds

That was beautiful, the way he tracked the puck on that play.
Bryz was in a scrum of bodies in the crease too.

Also the shift to his left to stop Franzen on the PP earlier.
Really quality saves.

Flyers win but get czech mated by the wings. Story of this season.
Postscript. I'll be shocked if Kromwell gets suspended 3 games or more.

Ugh...it's not hard.

The person is the primary target, not the wall. Just like Jake was the primary target, not the ice.

But Kronwall turned and led with his shoulder right into Jake's head.

Debating the 'primary' target is like when your girlfriend asks you "so whatcha thinking?" It's just fking stupid.

What did he hit? He hit the head. Did he mean to hit the head? Who gives a poop. He definitely meant to hit Jake.
- wolfhounds

So now you are changing your story. A minute ago you said he meant to hit his head. Now you are saying he meant to hit Jake. Of course he meant to hit him. And if Jake his head up contact is with his chest. Kronwall is not leaping, is not going up in any way to make a head shot, he is putting his shoulder exactly where it would be, that Voracek bends down is out of Kronwalls hands, and no human could react that fast to adjust.

Kronwall didn't move the point of contact, Voracek did. There is no debating that.

If something is coming to hit me and I bend my head forward in the direction of the hit, my head is going to get hit first.

Listen, you you say "the head was targeted", you are implying that contracting the head was the purposeful intention of the hit.

I disagree. I don't think the head was the target. The head ended up being the point of contact. His head got in the way of the intended point of contact because it was WHERE IT WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE.......namely, down. That the first point of contact was basically between the nameplate and number on the back of Kronwalls jersey should tell you all you need to know about how low his head was.

Maybe we are just arguing semantics. I don't think he head was purposefully targeted, and Voracek bears some responsibility for not keeping his head up and protecting himself. And had it been a Flyer defenseman, everyone in here would be ripping him if he let up on a hit like that.

It is crazy.
But they seem to go through this every year with the injuries.
I thought they lost Read tonight too when he went into the boards.

Luckily, they have a pretty deep team forward wise.
The rooks have to keep stepping up.
Wellwood looks pretty good in the last two games.
- Marc D

Yup, my wife was a bit worried about Read as well. And Wellwood definitely looks like he has some skills, and we still have Harry Z on the sidelines. Insanely good group of rookies to drop in any game and hold their own.

I understand your side of it and NK's intent might have been to lay a good lick on him. But in todays NHL rules are in place to try and eliminate head shots. Shanahan has been quoted as saying no player should have to worry about his head being the principle point of contact. I guess well just agree to disagree.
- joepa90

tell me this has kronwall never thrown a hit like this before? or been suspended?

I understand your side of it and NK's intent might have been to lay a good lick on him. But in todays NHL rules are in place to try and eliminate head shots. Shanahan has been quoted as saying no player should have to worry about his head being the principle point of contact. I guess well just agree to disagree.
- joepa90

See my reply to davies. I don't really care what Shanahan does with this one. NK might finally get suspended on his rep, who knows. This was about as clean a hit as I've seen him throw. Of all his "classics" anyway.

Hope Jake is okay.

Way to go Bryz.

Way to go Flyers.

I'm out for tonight.

Lindros had the puck on his stick. His head was down. Whatever. He was my favorite player at the time, but that one was on him.

In this instance Kronwall can do whatever he wants to "bait" Jake. maybe he was truly going to retreat and then realized that Jake wasn't gaining full control of the puck and decided to pinch. That is as reasonable an argument as baiting.
- rockychocbill

Kronwall isn't going to be suspended for "baiting" Voracek. That's not what makes it illegal. Rule 48 is clear.

It is crazy.
But they seem to go through this every year with the injuries.
I thought they lost Read tonight too when he went into the boards.

Luckily, they have a pretty deep team forward wise.
The rooks have to keep stepping up.
Wellwood looks pretty good in the last two games.
- Marc D

speaking of which, watching couturier wrestle for those last faceoffs was really something. lava put him out for 5 or so d zone faceoffs in a row with 60 or less seconds to go

So now you are changing your story. A minute ago you said he meant to hit his head. Now you are saying he meant to hit Jake. Of course he meant to hit him. And if Jake his head up contact is with his chest. Kronwall is not leaping, is not going up in any way to make a head shot, he is putting his shoulder exactly where it would be, that Voracek bends down is out of Kronwalls hands, and no human could react that fast to adjust.

Kronwall didn't move the point of contact, Voracek did. There is no debating that.

If something is coming to hit me and I bend my head forward in the direction of the hit, my head is going to get hit first.

Listen, you you say "the head was targeted", you are implying that contracting the head was the purposeful intention of the hit.

I disagree. I don't think the head was the target. The head ended up being the point of contact. His head got in the way of the intended point of contact because it was WHERE IT WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE.......namely, down. That the first point of contact was basically between the nameplate and number on the back of Kronwalls jersey should tell you all you need to know about how low his head was.

Maybe we are just arguing semantics. I don't think he head was purposefully targeted, and Voracek bears some responsibility for not keeping his head up and protecting himself. And had it been a Flyer defenseman, everyone in here would be ripping him if he let up on a hit like that.
- MBFlyerfan

Well said. I agree 100%. There is just no way to "target" someone's head with the part of the body Kronwall used hit Voracek. Only way would be if Kronwall was 8 feet tall.

What you have described in bold is the "old" standard.

Now, supposedly, there is also a responsibility on the hitter to avoid contact to the head of the targeted player if there is a reasonable expectation that the hitter had time and opportunity to do so. That was never the case before. Not on the Richards hit, the Cooke hit, or on any of the hits by Scott Stevens and the many who came before him.

The NHL has been telling us this all season. Now they have a chance to show us if they really mean it.
- BringBack25

That is the whole concept of rule 48. And what the League is trying to change. When there is an opportunity to "spare" a player in a vulnerable spot, you do so.

Kronwall isn't going to be suspended for "baiting" Voracek. That's not what makes it illegal. Rule 48 is clear.
- MJL

How many games do you think he deserves?

Wish we talking about the goalie's amazing play, at a critical point in the season.

Instead its injuries and head shots.
- Marc D

Bryz was FABULOUS!!! And it was so cool to see. I wasn't afraid of him, but the team laid back a bit much for my liking in the third. But they were down a couple of forwards by then. Was so glad to see Read come back. And man he has jets.

Take hitting out of the game then. Period. Full stop. It's way too easy for this "type" of hit to occur.
- rockychocbill

meh don't cave

Wish we talking about the goalie's amazing play, at a critical point in the season.

Instead its injuries and head shots.
- Marc D

i have been holding my tongue in general on bryz. but i am a big believer and it looks like he might be rounding into form at just the right time. i thought he was stupendous tonight.

the beer i'm drinking right now is stupendous too, i know you like that as well

What you have described in bold is the "old" standard.

Now, supposedly, there is also a responsibility on the hitter to avoid contact to the head of the targeted player if there is a reasonable expectation that the hitter had time and opportunity to do so. That was never the case before. Not on the Richards hit, the Cooke hit, or on any of the hits by Scott Stevens and the many who came before him.

The NHL has been telling us this all season. Now they have a chance to show us if they really mean it.
- BringBack25

i understand what chocolate is arguing and i totally agree with what you are saying here. supposedly things have changed. we'll see.

So now you are changing your story. A minute ago you said he meant to hit his head. Now you are saying he meant to hit Jake. Of course he meant to hit him. And if Jake his head up contact is with his chest. Kronwall is not leaping, is not going up in any way to make a head shot, he is putting his shoulder exactly where it would be, that Voracek bends down is out of Kronwalls hands, and no human could react that fast to adjust.

Kronwall didn't move the point of contact, Voracek did. There is no debating that.

If something is coming to hit me and I bend my head forward in the direction of the hit, my head is going to get hit first.

Listen, you you say "the head was targeted", you are implying that contracting the head was the purposeful intention of the hit.

I disagree. I don't think the head was the target. The head ended up being the point of contact. His head got in the way of the intended point of contact because it was WHERE IT WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE.......namely, down. That the first point of contact was basically between the nameplate and number on the back of Kronwalls jersey should tell you all you need to know about how low his head was.

Maybe we are just arguing semantics. I don't think he head was purposefully targeted, and Voracek bears some responsibility for not keeping his head up and protecting himself. And had it been a Flyer defenseman, everyone in here would be ripping him if he let up on a hit like that.
- MBFlyerfan

None of that matters if the hitter had reasonable time to see that the player was in a vulnerable spot. If an opportunity is there for the player to avoid the hit due to the player putting himself in a vulnerable spot, then it must be taken. Kronwall had plenty of opportunity to do so. He saw that he was vulnerable and took advantage of it. Regardless of whether he intended to target the head or not. It was still a hit where the principal point of contact was the head.

i have been holdning my tongue in general on bryz. but i am a big believer and it looks like he might be rounding into form at just the right time. i thought he was stupendous tonight.

the beer i'm drinking right now is stupendous too, i know you like that as well
- Don'tForgetTocchet

ok which beer?

i have been holdning my tongue in general on bryz. but i am a big believer and it looks like he might be rounding into form at just the right time. i thought he was stupendous tonight.

the beer i'm drinking right now is stupendous too, i know you like that as well
- Don'tForgetTocchet

He's certainly playing his best hockey of the season right now. They are going to need him to be good every game being so shorthanded.

So now you are changing your story. A minute ago you said he meant to hit his head. Now you are saying he meant to hit Jake. Of course he meant to hit him. And if Jake his head up contact is with his chest. Kronwall is not leaping, is not going up in any way to make a head shot, he is putting his shoulder exactly where it would be, that Voracek bends down is out of Kronwalls hands, and no human could react that fast to adjust.

Kronwall didn't move the point of contact, Voracek did. There is no debating that.

If something is coming to hit me and I bend my head forward in the direction of the hit, my head is going to get hit first.

Listen, you you say "the head was targeted", you are implying that contracting the head was the purposeful intention of the hit.

I disagree. I don't think the head was the target. The head ended up being the point of contact. His head got in the way of the intended point of contact because it was WHERE IT WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE.......namely, down. That the first point of contact was basically between the nameplate and number on the back of Kronwalls jersey should tell you all you need to know about how low his head was.

Maybe we are just arguing semantics. I don't think he head was purposefully targeted, and Voracek bears some responsibility for not keeping his head up and protecting himself. And had it been a Flyer defenseman, everyone in here would be ripping him if he let up on a hit like that.
- MBFlyerfan

THIS

is he playing? is he really?
- hammarby31

I have a feeling Briere will break out any game now. He is always one to step up when needed. With 21, 68 and 93 out, he is due to shift gears.

How many games do you think he deserves?
- joepa90

He hasn't been suspended previously so it won't be that high. Maybe just a couple.

Cant believe someone said this hit was a blindside hit

So now you are changing your story. A minute ago you said he meant to hit his head. Now you are saying he meant to hit Jake. Of course he meant to hit him. And if Jake his head up contact is with his chest. Kronwall is not leaping, is not going up in any way to make a head shot, he is putting his shoulder exactly where it would be, that Voracek bends down is out of Kronwalls hands, and no human could react that fast to adjust.

Kronwall didn't move the point of contact, Voracek did. There is no debating that.

If something is coming to hit me and I bend my head forward in the direction of the hit, my head is going to get hit first.

Listen, you you say "the head was targeted", you are implying that contracting the head was the purposeful intention of the hit.

I disagree. I don't think the head was the target. The head ended up being the point of contact. His head got in the way of the intended point of contact because it was WHERE IT WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE.......namely, down. That the first point of contact was basically between the nameplate and number on the back of Kronwalls jersey should tell you all you need to know about how low his head was.

Maybe we are just arguing semantics. I don't think he head was purposefully targeted, and Voracek bears some responsibility for not keeping his head up and protecting himself. And had it been a Flyer defenseman, everyone in here would be ripping him if he let up on a hit like that.
- MBFlyerfan

Yikes...monster post.

Look, only Kronwall knows if he targeted the head.

It looked to me like he did, but not to you. You and I can debate it ad nauseum.

I'll concede, as you said, that even if you 'target' the head, you might not hit it. But, athletes are typically aware of their bodies and their positioning (1 was in this case, the other wasn't), and they usually know what they are doing. Kronwall saw the play develop in front of him.

With most players, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt, but with Kronwall, his history of hits makes that impossible. Even if he doesn't target the head, he targets vulnerable players and goes at them full bore.

But, regardless of intent, I think results need to be considered. His primary point of contact was the head. And that was a potentially career-ending hit. Just like players need to pull up before boarding another player, a player like Kronwall needs to pull up before delivering that kind of hit. And I say that not to take hits out of the game - I love big hits - but because, in my opinion, Kronwall watched that play develop (it wasn't a fast bang-bang play from his PoV) and moved in for the kill.

He's certainly playing his best hockey of the season right now. They are going to need him to be good every game being so shorthanded.
- PLindbergh31

What would be the chances of two wins in row with Lilja and Gusty as a pair a month ago? I would have said pretty low. But the team D starting with the goalie has been solid. Still, getting killed on faceoffs, a few too many turn overs and failed clears. But Bryz really bailed them out at key moments.

ok which beer?
- Marc D

augustijn blonde


never had it before, picked it up at my weird little local grocery store that has a beer wall as large as its produce section

i give it 8.5-9 out of 10 , verrry good