The market was already set with the Plekanec and Horcoff deals.

Factor in the weak free agent center class, inflation, Grabovski's two-way play and it's a fair market deal.

Once again, your perceptions are getting in the way of reality.
- bradleyc4

Plekanec is overpaid. His numbers have gone down since he signed his deal. Grabo isnt worth that kind of money imo. 5.5M for a player who has had one season over 50 points. He is 28 yrs old and what you see is what you get. The potential is tapped out. I understand what the market dictates but just like I've said in the past you dont have to be the team to pay it (if the player isnt worth it). I dont care bc its Toronto that paid that price but to me his signing is as good as the Leino deal.

Drastic overpayment. Just because Burke forgot to take his meds, doesn't mean the Flyers should go crazy and start overpaying guys. With the contract James Neal just signed, JVR looks like a bad contract right now.
- PLindbergh31

I think its a bad deal as well. How in the world is Grabovski worth 5.5M?

You're out to lunch.

Neal is a year and a half older and has had the benefit of an extra full season in the NHL and a full season of the AHL under his belt. Let's see where JVR is two years from now.
- bradleyc4

With JVR the Flyers are paying on potential. If he reaches it and becomes a 30+ goal scorer, then the contract will turn out to be a bargain. If he doesn't then what?

My point is paying guys for something they haven't done yet is a risk.

As far as age goes, Landeskog, and Seguin are already light years ahead of JVR in their development. Both were # 2 overall picks like JVR was. Are we chalking this up to them spending two years in the OHL?

Plekanec is overpaid. His numbers have gone down since he signed his deal. Grabo isnt worth that kind of money imo. 5.5M for a player who has had one season over 50 points. He is 28 yrs old and what you see is what you get. The potential is tapped out. I understand what the market dictates but just like I've said in the past you dont have to be the team to pay it (if the player isnt worth it). I dont care bc its Toronto that paid that price but to me his signing is as good as the Leino deal.
- stveshdy

Grabovski is on pace for almost 60 points for the 2nd year in a row, which is high-end for a 2C. Put him with Lupul and Kessel and he could hit 70-80.

But even moreso, you have to look beyond just the points. Both Grabovski and Plekanec are asked to take on much more of a defensive responsibility. That means tougher minutes vs. the league's best, more defensive zone draws, etc.

And thirdly, who does Toronto throw out there at center if they let Grabovski walk? Do you pay the same money to a guy like Olli Jokinen, who is 5 years older? Enter the season with Bozak and Tim Connolly as your top two centers? Trade significant assets to acquire another center via trade?

It was a smart move by Burke.

Plekanec is overpaid. His numbers have gone down since he signed his deal. Grabo isnt worth that kind of money imo. 5.5M for a player who has had one season over 50 points. He is 28 yrs old and what you see is what you get. The potential is tapped out. I understand what the market dictates but just like I've said in the past you dont have to be the team to pay it (if the player isnt worth it). I dont care bc its Toronto that paid that price but to me his signing is as good as the Leino deal.
- stveshdy

I totally agree with you, but good luck getting 30 GM's too as well. Somebody is always desperate or has a poor pro scouting staff (Flames for example), or is being blackmailed with pictures by some agent. The Flyers are as guilty as any team in the league, but with a twist, with their stoopid lengthy contracts the past few seasons.

I think its a bad deal as well. How in the world is Grabovski worth 5.5M?
- stveshdy

He's not. Maybe the Leafs are tossing him a cookie because he ended Pronger's career? Honestly no clue how he got that type of deal. Burke celebrating St. Patrick's Day early I gues.

He's not. Maybe the Leafs are tossing him a cookie because he ended Pronger's career? Honestly no clue how he got that type of deal. Burke celebrating St. Patrick's Day early I gues.
- PLindbergh31

salaries, along with the cap, will continue to go up. 5.5 is not what it was 3 years ago and will not be what it is now 3 years from now.

wait til you see what kind of players get 5.5 in the future...

With JVR the Flyers are paying on potential. If he reaches it and becomes a 30+ goal scorer, then the contract will turn out to be a bargain. If he doesn't then what?

My point is paying guys for something they haven't done yet is a risk.

As far as age goes, Landeskog, and Seguin are already light years ahead of JVR in their development. Both were # 2 overall picks like JVR was. Are we chalking this up to them spending two years in the OHL?
- PLindbergh31

So because two guys -- one who isn't even a comparable to JVR -- have progressed quicker than JVR, he's now a huge risk to not reach 30 goals?

15 goals as a rookie. 21 goals last year. He was poised for a breakout this year. Injuries have stalled that progression by a year.

No, they don't. He asked me to keep track of +/- when he wanted to start playing D a few years back since "defensemen don't score much, Dad."

Then we got into a long debate over how +/- is not a good indicator of performance. It put the threads here to shame.
- Flyskippy

Oh boy!

Grabovski is on pace for almost 60 points for the 2nd year in a row, which is high-end for a 2C. Put him with Lupul and Kessel and he could hit 70-80.

But even moreso, you have to look beyond just the points. Both Grabovski and Plekanec are asked to take on much more of a defensive responsibility. That means tougher minutes vs. the league's best, more defensive zone draws, etc.

And thirdly, who does Toronto throw out there at center if they let Grabovski walk? Do you pay the same money to a guy like Olli Jokinen, who is 5 years older? Enter the season with Bozak and Tim Connolly as your top two centers? Trade significant assets to acquire another center via trade?

It was a smart move by Burke.
- bradleyc4

Thats your opinion. I dont like the contract. 5.5M for a player who has had one 50 point season is questionable imo. Im not saying Toronto cant resign the player but I think they overpaid for his services.

salaries, along with the cap, will continue to go up. 5.5 is not what it was 3 years ago and will not be what it is now 3 years from now.

wait til you see what kind of players get 5.5 in the future...
- Crimsoninja

ty...a key point.

brad your dumb perception = reality

I totally agree with you, but good luck getting 30 GM's too as well. Somebody is always desperate or has a poor pro scouting staff (Flames for example), or is being blackmailed with pictures by some agent. The Flyers are as guilty as any team in the league, but with a twist, with their stoopid lengthy contracts the past few seasons.
- rockychocbill

Their is always some team that will overpay. Doesnt make the contract a good one.

So because two guys -- one who isn't even a comparable to JVR -- have progressed quicker than JVR, he's now a huge risk to not reach 30 goals?

15 goals as a rookie. 21 goals last year. He was poised for a breakout this year. Injuries have stalled that progression by a year.
- bradleyc4

lightyears.

who is the girl? i like her swag
- Crimsoninja

Shes easy

salaries, along with the cap, will continue to go up. 5.5 is not what it was 3 years ago and will not be what it is now 3 years from now.

wait til you see what kind of players get 5.5 in the future...
- Crimsoninja

Fair point. But with the potential labor issues is there even certainty there will be a season next year? If the players getting less of a % of the revenue as rumored, how will the cap be going up?

salaries, along with the cap, will continue to go up. 5.5 is not what it was 3 years ago and will not be what it is now 3 years from now.

wait til you see what kind of players get 5.5 in the future...
- Crimsoninja

The NHL is in trouble if guys like Grabovski are getting 5.5M
Wont be long before another lockout imo.

So because two guys -- one who isn't even a comparable to JVR -- have progressed quicker than JVR, he's now a huge risk to not reach 30 goals?

15 goals as a rookie. 21 goals last year. He was poised for a breakout this year. Injuries have stalled that progression by a year.
- bradleyc4

Time will tell. Bottom line is the Flyers will have a guy who has averaged 33 points a season as a 4.5 million dollar cap hit next year. He's certainly nothing worth mentioning defensively at this point, so it's all about him putting the puck in the net. I'm high on JVR, I hope he continues to develop, but questioning his contract doesn't make someone "out to lunch".

salaries, along with the cap, will continue to go up. 5.5 is not what it was 3 years ago and will not be what it is now 3 years from now.

wait til you see what kind of players get 5.5 in the future...
- Crimsoninja

...........and yet there are still teams "trying" to get to the cap floor. It's getting (frank)ed up again dude. Flyers, Leafs, etc have the dough. Many others don't.

The NHL is in trouble if guys like Grabovski are getting 5.5M
Wont be long before another lockout imo.
- stveshdy

There are more heinous contracts in Toronto.

Time will tell. Bottom line is the Flyers will have a guy who has averaged 33 points a season as a 4.5 million dollar cap hit next year. He's certainly nothing worth mentioning defensively at this point, so it's all about him putting the puck in the net. I'm high on JVR, I hope he continues to develop, but questioning his contract doesn't make someone "out to lunch".
- PLindbergh31

If you can't see JVR's potential, then I disagree.

There are more heinous contracts in Toronto.
- bradleyc4

He is going to be paid the second highest player on the team behind Phaneuf.

If you can't see JVR's potential, then I disagree.
- bradleyc4

Even god hates the Flyers

If you can't see JVR's potential, then I disagree.
- bradleyc4

He's gonna win the Bill Masterton next season.

Even god hates the Flyers
- Scottie Upshall