Meh, im not too worried ...our team is full of youth..plus we signed nick cousins. I dont know much about him, but apparently the brass are very high on him.
- EastBeast18

Cousins and Rinaldo will have other teams taking dumb retaliatory penalties every other shift. Cousins will be a folk hero in Philly.

Exactly what style defenseman did they have too many of? The two guys who are puck movers are Timonen and Carle. Neither Coburn or Meszaros are as capable in that regard as Timonen or Carle. In fact, Coburn and Meszaros are more like Kubina and Grossmann than they are like Carle.

Granted, neither Meszaros or Coburn are as consistently physical as Grossmann has been, but they're not similar to Carle.
- Jsaquella

I know nobody can move the puck now. Amazing.

I don't know. But what I do know is that Carle has final say on where to sign. All we know is that the Flyers and Coburn were able to come to an agreement, and to this point the Flyers and Carle haven't. That's all we know. Nothing more.
- MJL

I know the cap space is going to be limited to what they can do. Either way if Carle is here or not the Flyers will have to address other issues. I dont know how Homer plans on doing that.

I don't know. But what I do know is that Carle has final say on where to sign. All we know is that the Flyers and Coburn were able to come to an agreement, and to this point the Flyers and Carle haven't. That's all we know. Nothing more.
- MJL

What we do know is, that Holmgren made offers to both players. Coburn accepted it and signed an extension.

All that means is that Coburn agreed to the deal first. Not that he was the priority or that Carle was.

I know nobody can move the puck now. Amazing.
- stveshdy

It's not whether they can or can not move the puck. It's about how well they can.

Honestly, if you feel that Coburn and Meszaros are more similar to Carle than they are to Kubina and Grossmann, there's really nothing more to say, because at that point you're simply ignoring all facets of the players and their abilities and tendencies.

What we do know is, that Holmgren made offers to both players. Coburn accepted it and signed an extension.

All that means is that Coburn agreed to the deal first. Not that he was the priority or that Carle was.
- Jsaquella

Exactly.

I know the cap space is going to be limited to what they can do. Either way if Carle is here or not the Flyers will have to address other issues. I dont know how Homer plans on doing that.
- stveshdy

Well, since he's said that he and Carle's agent continue to talk, it sure seems that Holmgren views Carle as part of the puzzle in the future.

What we do know is, that Holmgren made offers to both players. Coburn accepted it and signed an extension.

All that means is that Coburn agreed to the deal first. Not that he was the priority or that Carle was.
- Jsaquella

Knowing you will have limited cap space and having an idea of what those two players will cost (ballpark figure) wouldnt it make sense to try and leave room to sign your better defenseman? By signing Coburn they limited their space to add Carle, thats all im saying. Not implying he is more important. Just curious why he would strap himself. I understand he signed Coburn bc the deal was right for both sides but now you almost forced yourself into a corner when negotiating with Carle.

if his name was Mats Karle, would he get more respect?

Well, since he's said that he and Carle's agent continue to talk, it sure seems that Holmgren views Carle as part of the puzzle in the future.
- Jsaquella

Plenty of teams talk to agents but that doesnt mean a thing. Homer was in contact all season with Leino's agent before he went into UFA bc he wanted to get paid. Carle could be doing the exact same thing. I've read that Carle wants to stay so why wouldnt he come close on an agreement with the Flyers? Its very possible it will happen and I wont knock Homer for it.

I know nobody can move the puck now. Amazing.
- stveshdy

Grossmann can make a first pass. Any defenseman really can. But not many can at the level that Carle does, and how quickly he turns offense to defense. It's about how well. And Carle does it at a high level. Coburn is not that great of a passer. He skates the puck well. Meszaros is average.

Knowing you will have limited cap space and having an idea of what those two players will cost (ballpark figure) wouldnt it make sense to try and leave room to sign your better defenseman? By signing Coburn they limited their space to add Carle, thats all im saying. Not implying he is more important. Just curious why he would strap himself. I understand he signed Coburn bc the deal was right for both sides but now you almost forced yourself into a corner when negotiating with Carle.
- stveshdy

They still have the option to sign Carle and trade another defenseman to clear that space. There are other factors at play in that scenario, of course.

It's not whether they can or can not move the puck. It's about how well they can.

Honestly, if you feel that Coburn and Meszaros are more similar to Carle than they are to Kubina and Grossmann, there's really nothing more to say, because at that point you're simply ignoring all facets of the players and their abilities and tendencies.
- Jsaquella

I think Coburn and Mesz move the puck much better than Grossmann and Kubina so I guess theres nothing more to say. Sorry, I dont agree with your statement.

Knowing you will have limited cap space and having an idea of what those two players will cost (ballpark figure) wouldnt it make sense to try and leave room to sign your better defenseman? By signing Coburn they limited their space to add Carle, thats all im saying. Not implying he is more important. Just curious why he would strap himself. I understand he signed Coburn bc the deal was right for both sides but now you almost forced yourself into a corner when negotiating with Carle.
- stveshdy

I'm guessing he doesn't feel he's strapping himself. My guess is he feels that both Coburn and Carle are key pieces moving forward and Coburn agreed to an extension first.

They're in a corner with Carle regardless of whether or not Coburn is signed. He's a pending free agent in a very weak market for his position. The fact that he's continued to talk to Carle's agent says he hasn;t given up on signing him.

if his name was Mats Karle, would he get more respect?
- wilsonecho91

Maybe he'd get respect if he weren't some weirdo Alaskan

Maybe he'd get respect if he weren't some weirdo Alaskan
- BulliesPhan87

Edit: you cannot watch a game commentated by Doc and involving any of Carle, Gomez, Nate Thompson, Brandon Dubinsky without being reminded of their respective origins.

Sure one happened last game, but before that, other then the same giveaways that every other defenseman makes, they are rare. .
- MJL

I think in the 36 on Lidstrom he made a dreadful turnover. But he's Lidstrom, so what are you going to say?

I think in the 36 on Lidstrom he made a dreadful turnover. But he's Lidstrom, so what are you going to say?
- bodiva88

trade him?

I'm guessing he doesn't feel he's strapping himself. My guess is he feels that both Coburn and Carle are key pieces moving forward and Coburn agreed to an extension first.

They're in a corner with Carle regardless of whether or not Coburn is signed. He's a pending free agent in a very weak market for his position. The fact that he's continued to talk to Carle's agent says he hasn;t given up on signing him.
- Jsaquella

I just think it would be wise to save your space and try to work a deal out with Carle first before getting Coburn signed. I'm not saying thats right or wrong but thats what I personally would of done.

I think Coburn and Mesz move the puck much better than Grossmann and Kubina so I guess theres nothing more to say. Sorry, I dont agree with your statement.
- stveshdy

I'd agree that they move the puck somewhat better than Grossmann and Kubina. Still doesn't mean they are in Carle's class...you're using one aspect of a player's game to determine how he fits.

Carle does more than move the puck. Certainly they could pursue another guy that moves the puck as well, but the probability is that the guy they get wouldn't be as adept as Carle is at blocking shots or as a defensive player. Expecting Coburn and Meszaros or Gustafsson to be able to step into Carle's role is ignoring quite a bit of what Carle can do.

Plenty of teams talk to agents but that doesnt mean a thing. Homer was in contact all season with Leino's agent before he went into UFA bc he wanted to get paid. Carle could be doing the exact same thing. I've read that Carle wants to stay so why wouldnt he come close on an agreement with the Flyers? Its very possible it will happen and I wont knock Homer for it.
- stveshdy

It's a negotiation. Carle has a number, and Holmgren has one. Sometimes there can be a compromise, sometimes there isn't one. And the business end get's involved. This is a chance for Carle to get a good payday. There's a lot of money thrown around on July 1.

I just think it would be wise to save your space and try to work a deal out with Carle first before getting Coburn sign. I'm not saying thats right or wrong but thats what I personally would of done.
- stveshdy

That's fine. Personally I would have liked to see them both take the $4.5mm deal that Coburn signed. But Coburn agreed to that deal and Carle didn't. What are you going to do, offer Coburn a deal and tell him he can't sign it until Carle does?

And what if Carle signs a $5.25mm deal before Coburn signs? Why would Coburn agree to a $4.5mm deal then? Because there's not a lot of guys like Coburn in FA either.

I'd agree that they move the puck somewhat better than Grossmann and Kubina. Still doesn't mean they are in Carle's class...you're using one aspect of a player's game to determine how he fits.

Carle does more than move the puck. Certainly they could pursue another guy that moves the puck as well, but the probability is that the guy they get wouldn't be as adept as Carle is at blocking shots or as a defensive player. Expecting Coburn and Meszaros or Gustafsson to be able to step into Carle's role is ignoring quite a bit of what Carle can do.
- Jsaquella

No one is ignoring what Carle can do. But we are acting like he is the greatest defenseman to every put on an orange and black sweater. How do we know there isnt someone out there who can step in and play better?

This is the same thing I hear every single year when their about to possible lose a player through a trade or UFA. We act like the player is irreplaceable. I just dont get it. Since when did one player win championships?

It's a negotiation. Carle has a number, and Holmgren has one. Sometimes there can be a compromise, sometimes there isn't one. And the business end get's involved. This is a chance for Carle to get a good payday. There's a lot of money thrown around on July 1.
- MJL

I totally agree.

Edit: you cannot watch a game commentated by Doc and involving any of Carle, Gomez, Nate Thompson, Brandon Dubinsky without being reminded of their respective origins.
- wilsonecho91

He says the same things everytime, good ol' clockwork Doc.