That's fine. Personally I would have liked to see them both take the $4.5mm deal that Coburn signed. But Coburn agreed to that deal and Carle didn't. What are you going to do, offer Coburn a deal and tell him he can't sign it until Carle does?

And what if Carle signs a $5.25mm deal before Coburn signs? Why would Coburn agree to a $4.5mm deal then? Because there's not a lot of guys like Coburn in FA either.
- Jsaquella

What I'm saying is you try to get a deal done first with Carle. I wouldnt of offered anything to Coburn until later in the year or summer (before he becomes a UFA). There is plenty of time to sign Coburn. I would rather put my attention on signing Carle who is supposively my most important defenseman of the future.

Plenty of teams talk to agents but that doesnt mean a thing. Homer was in contact all season with Leino's agent before he went into UFA bc he wanted to get paid. Carle could be doing the exact same thing. I've read that Carle wants to stay so why wouldnt he come close on an agreement with the Flyers? Its very possible it will happen and I wont knock Homer for it.
- stveshdy

There's wanting to stay and there's being willing to take a lot less money in order to stay.

I wouldn't blame Holmgren if Carle walked for $6mm. I don't blame him for not re-signing Leino at what he got. I'm not a fan of overpaying, nor am I suggesting that Carle be handed whatever he wants.

I'm simply saying that they can't replace Carle with Coburn, Meszaros and Gus.

It's a negotiation. Carle has a number, and Holmgren has one. Sometimes there can be a compromise, sometimes there isn't one. And the business end get's involved. This is a chance for Carle to get a good payday. There's a lot of money thrown around on July 1.
- MJL

That includes the possibility that he goes to a non-competitor team for huge cash. Of course, he could also take a reasonable number to stay here. Personally, I wouldn't bank on the latter, though I certainly hope for it. I'd expect a player of his age and caliber to want to be on a competitor. These are just assumptions I'm throwing out there.

No one is ignoring what Carle can do. But we are acting like he is the greatest defenseman to every put on an orange and black sweater. How do we know there isnt someone out there who can step in and play better?

This is the same thing I hear every single year when their about to possible lose a player through a trade or UFA. We act like the player is irreplaceable. I just dont get it. Since when did one player win championships?
- stveshdy

Who is acting like that? You might be thinking that, but it's not the case at all.

I'm not even saying that Carle can't be replaced. But thinking that Coburn, Meszaros and Gustafsson can do it is seriously overrating that trio.

No one is ignoring what Carle can do. But we are acting like he is the greatest defenseman to every put on an orange and black sweater. How do we know there isnt someone out there who can step in and play better?

This is the same thing I hear every single year when their about to possible lose a player through a trade or UFA. We act like the player is irreplaceable. I just dont get it. Since when did one player win championships?
- stveshdy

There isn't one person who has said that about Carle. All I'm doing is giving my opinion on Carle as a player using some factual information, how the League views a player like Carle.

I don't know anyone who has said that there isn't someone out there who can step in a play better either. Nothing close to that has been said. But how do you get that player? Two ways I know of. Free Agency or a trade. What are you willing to pay, and who are you willing to trade.

There's wanting to stay and there's being willing to take a lot less money in order to stay.

I wouldn't blame Holmgren if Carle walked for $6mm. I don't blame him for not re-signing Leino at what he got. I'm not a fan of overpaying, nor am I suggesting that Carle be handed whatever he wants.

I'm simply saying that they can't replace Carle with Coburn, Meszaros and Gus.
- Jsaquella

I'm saying why not? What if they get another player in a trade who is good but not on Carle's level does that mean he wont be productive here? Thats all im saying is he is one player not the team. If they lose him so be it but I dont think the Flyers wont be good bc Carle is gone.

What I'm saying is you try to get a deal done first with Carle. I wouldnt of offered anything to Coburn until later in the year or summer (before he becomes a UFA). There is plenty of time to sign Coburn. I would rather put my attention on signing Carle who is supposively my most important defenseman of the future.
- stveshdy

Both Carle and Coburn are important to the future, otherwise, Holmgren wouldn't have re-signed Coburn. His goal was, and still seems to be, to get both re-signed.

There's wanting to stay and there's being willing to take a lot less money in order to stay.

I wouldn't blame Holmgren if Carle walked for $6mm. I don't blame him for not re-signing Leino at what he got. I'm not a fan of overpaying, nor am I suggesting that Carle be handed whatever he wants.

I'm simply saying that they can't replace Carle with Coburn, Meszaros and Gus.
- Jsaquella

I'm not at all comfortable with paying Carle 6M. I think that's too much. But I don't doubt that he can command that on the open market.

There isn't one person who has said that about Carle. All I'm doing is giving my opinion on Carle as a player using some factual information, how the League views a player like Carle.

I don't know anyone who has said that there isn't someone out there who can step in a play better either. Nothing close to that has been said. But how do you get that player? Two ways I know of. Free Agency or a trade. What are you willing to pay, and who are you willing to trade.
- MJL

Sorry. I just feel like when you question any part of him/game there is never going to be an answer that is right to replace him. We may have to live with that bc we dont know if he is going to be around next year. They may have to move on and play with another defenseman who isnt on his level but can produce for this team.

Both Carle and Coburn are important to the future, otherwise, Holmgren wouldn't have re-signed Coburn. His goal was, and still seems to be, to get both re-signed.
- Jsaquella

They have other needs also. They cant tie up all their money in defenseman. Their cap space will be limited and they need to be more balanced. They still will have four-five solid defenseman.

I'm saying why not? What if they get another player in a trade who is good but not on Carle's level does that mean he wont be productive here? Thats all im saying is he is one player not the team. If they lose him so be it but I dont think the Flyers wont be good bc Carle is gone.
- stveshdy

They won't be as good if they don't replace him.

I'll give an example. And just to clarify, I'm not in any way comparing Carle to Pronger. But the Flyers added Grossmann and Kubina because they felt they lacked some size and physical play on the back end, with the loss of Pronger. So they obtained two lesser players. Are they as good with those two versus Pronger? And I'm aware of the difference between replacing a top player in Pronger versus replacing a lesser tier player in Carle.

I'm saying why not? What if they get another player in a trade who is good but not on Carle's level does that mean he wont be productive here? Thats all im saying is he is one player not the team. If they lose him so be it but I dont think the Flyers wont be good bc Carle is gone.
- stveshdy

Nobody is saying that one player is the team. I have acknowledged repeatedly that replacing Carle is certainly an option. But how? Do you trade a 1st rounder to do so? Do you trade prospects? Do you overpay for Ryan Suter or Dennis Wideman?

No matter what they do, they will need a guy that can move the puck.

I'm not at all comfortable with paying Carle 6M. I think that's too much. But I don't doubt that he can command that on the open market.
- MJL

I agree. This team has other needs to address also. I just dont want them to get crazy in trying to re-sign him.

Sorry. I just feel like when you question any part of him/game there is never going to be an answer that is right to replace him. We may have to live with that bc we dont know if he is going to be around next year. They may have to move on and play with another defenseman who isnt on his level but can produce for this team.
- stveshdy

If I was to guess right now, odds are Carle won't be back. But they need to replace him. And they may have to go with a lesser player. But then they better hope Pronger comes back.

still albs for me
- aightwebang17

typical

They have other needs also. They cant tie up all their money in defenseman. Their cap space will be limited and they need to be more balanced. They still will have four-five solid defenseman.
- stveshdy

Cap space is going to be tight. Just like it is every year.

They have other needs also. They cant tie up all their money in defenseman. Their cap space will be limited and they need to be more balanced. They still will have four-five solid defenseman.
- stveshdy

That's true. But, at the same time, what kind of defensemen is important, too.

Braydon Coburn is a solid top 4 defenseman. But if you have six of him, you're defense is going to be lacking in certain areas. Look at MJL's exmple of how they replaced Pronger. As much as I like what Grossmann and Kubina have done, I;d rather have a healthy Pronger and go with Timonen, Carle, Mesz and Coburn with him.

They won't be as good if they don't replace him.

I'll give an example. And just to clarify, I'm not in any way comparing Carle to Pronger. But the Flyers added Grossmann and Kubina because they felt they lacked some size and physical play on the back end, with the loss of Pronger. So they obtained two lesser players. Are they as good with those two versus Pronger? And I'm aware of the difference between replacing a top player in Pronger versus replacing a lesser tier player in Carle.
- MJL

Hard to say if they would be better or worse. They lost Carter and Richards and are a better team today then last year. So their are examples that can go both ways imo.

I'm not at all comfortable with paying Carle 6M. I think that's too much. But I don't doubt that he can command that on the open market.
- MJL

I doubt anyone would be comfortable with that size of a deal for him. At the same time, I don't think that $5.25mm is ridiculous and I don't think they can find an adequate replacement without a similar cap hit unless they give up some prime assets

If I was to guess right now, odds are Carle won't be back. But they need to replace him. And they may have to go with a lesser player. But then they better hope Pronger comes back.
- MJL

You never know. I think Carle would be a huge blow but not one that will knock this team out of the playoffs next year. Obviously you want to try and keep all your good players but with the salary cap its hard to do.

Hard to say if they would be better or worse. They lost Carter and Richards and are a better team today then last year. So their are examples that can go both ways imo.
- stveshdy

It's not hard to say for me. This team would be better with Pronger in the lineup versus Grossmann and Kubina. In my opinion there is no question about that.

You never know. I think Carle would be a huge blow but not one that will knock this team out of the playoffs next year. Obviously you want to try and keep all your good players but with the salary cap its hard to do.
- stveshdy

Nobody has come close to saying that the impact of losing Carle would be that the Flyers would become a non playoff team. What is the goal? To make the playoffs or win the Cup?

It's not hard to say for me. This team would be better with Pronger in the lineup versus Grossmann and Kubina. In my opinion there is no question about that.
- MJL

Depends what Pronger is on the ice. If he is fully healthy than I totally agree.

Nobody has come close to saying that the impact of losing Carle would be that the Flyers would become a non playoff team. What is the goal? To make the playoffs or win the Cup?
- MJL

Boston won the cup last year and besides Chara IMO the rest of the defenseman were role players at best. The Flyers defensive core was much better and they got handled.

Trading Richards and Carter during the offseason made this team better for the Cup? Anything can happen if you find the right pieces that fit your team.

Boston won the cup last year and besides Chara IMO the rest of the defenseman were role players at best. The Flyers defensive core was much better and they got handled.
- stveshdy

The Bruins played a much more defensively responsible system than the Flyers do.

Laviolette's system would probably not be a good fit for Boston's personnel. Granted, if the Flyers were to alter their systemic approach, Carle-or his replacement-would not be as important.