Boston won the cup last year and besides Chara IMO the rest of the defenseman were role players at best. The Flyers defensive core was much better and they got handled.

Trading Richards and Carter during the offseason made this team better for the Cup?
- stveshdy

Seidenberg is a very good player. On paper maybe. But it's a team game. Boston played a very tight checking style, better team defense, backed up by superior goaltending. They won because they were a better team. Not because of the individual players.

The Flyers making those trades did not make them better for the Cup, in my opinion this year. It made them better for the future. I hope.

On paper, do the NY Rangers or Pittsburgh Penguins have a more talented team then the Flyers do?

Seidenberg is a very good player. On paper maybe. But it's a team game. Boston played a very tight checking style, better team defense, backed up by superior goaltending. They won because they were a better team. Not because of the individual players.

The Flyers making those trades did not make them better for the Cup, in my opinion this year. It made them better for the future. I hope.
- MJL

That was kind of my point. More balanced team.
So if we are going to replace Carle lets list what the player who is replacing him needs to do?

That was kind of my point. More balanced team.
So if we are going to replace Carle lets list what the player who is replacing him needs to do?
- stveshdy

First of all keep in mind that the Flyers got 4 players for 2 players. Not one for one. So I don't know how you can compare the two situations.

First of all keep in mind that the Flyers got 4 players for 2 players. Not one for one. So I don't know how you can compare the two situations.
- MJL

Yeah but the four players in return were not suppose to be better than what we previously had (this year).

Yeah but the four players in return were not suppose to be better than what we previously had (this year).
- stveshdy

I don't know what that means.

http://www.csnphilly.com/...blockID=678904&feedID=695

there goes any goodwill from the fakepanotch unveiling

I don't know what that means.
- MJL

What I am saying is those four players in the lineup were not suppose to produce more than the current two that we had. The Flyers also lost Leino and Versteeg and people were questioning how they would make up all those goals and points. All I'm saying is every player is different and bc one is taken away doesnt mean another cant step up and perform equally or even better. Obviously they can perform worse as well but I'm thinking positive here.

http://www.csnphilly.com/...blockID=678904&feedID=695

there goes any goodwill from the fakepanotch unveiling
- wilsonecho91

Just more unnecessary grade school bs. Honestly, is that all he can come up with?

What I am saying is those four players in the lineup were not suppose to produce more than the current two that we had. The Flyers also lost Leino and Versteeg and people were questioning how they would make up all those goals and points. All I'm saying is every player is different and bc one is taken away doesnt mean another cant step up and perform equally or even better. Obviously they can perform worse as well but I'm thinking positive here.
- stveshdy

Did they produce more? One can never know. But I don't think they did. Look I don't want to get into a Richards/Carter discussion. They're gone. It's a new era. Nobody has disagreed with you that another can't step up and perform equally or even better. But as far as Carle, who is that?

And I'll ask the question again. There are two ways to get a replacement. A trade or Free Agency. What are you willing to spend or give up in a trade to replace him?

Maybe you think a committee of what they have already can do it. And maybe your right. But I don't think so. They need that element to the team.

Did they produce more? One can never know. But I don't think they did. Look I don't want to get into a Richards/Carter discussion. They're gone. It's a new era. Nobody has disagreed with you that another can't step up and perform equally or even better. But as far as Carle, who is that?

And I'll ask the question again. There are two ways to get a replacement. A trade or Free Agency. What are you willing to spend or give up in a trade to replace him?

Maybe you think a committee of what they have already can do it. And maybe your right. But I don't think so. They need that element to the team.
- MJL

I think what they currently have if they decide to keep Grossmann may work. They could add another defenseman who moves the puck well through a trade. Maybe Homer signs Carle and trades another defenseman. There are plenty of options out there for him to do. I'm willing to trade some picks and one of your current defenseman if I'm going to land a stud. I may also be willing to trade a forward inorder to add a defenseman. Again we have plenty of options. I dont know whats right or wrong but I refuse to allow one player make the difference on this team (not saying thats what your saying).

I think what they currently have if they decide to keep Grossmann. They could add another defenseman who moves the puck well through a trade. Maybe Homer signs Carle and trades another defenseman. There are plenty of options out there for him to do. I'm willing to trade some picks and one of your current defenseman if I'm going to land a stud. I may also be willing to trade a forward inorder to add a defenseman. Again we have plenty of options. I dont know whats right or wrong but I refuse to allow one player make the difference on this team (not saying thats what your saying).
- stveshdy

I agree with all of that. There are always options. But a player of Carle's caliber will not come cheaply in a trade. And as far as UFA's, there are two comparables as far as I see it. Wideman and Suter.

And the Flyers need to keep and use their first round picks.

http://www.csnphilly.com/...blockID=678904&feedID=695

there goes any goodwill from the fakepanotch unveiling
- wilsonecho91

Nice of them, to victimize the kid who can barely speak English for the sake of controversy and relatively small cash.

Cousins and Rinaldo will have other teams taking dumb retaliatory penalties every other shift. Cousins will be a folk hero in Philly.
- Jsaquella

Cant deny , i have grown to become a rhino fan. Scoring a goal here and there too makes it even better. So if cousins is like him, sounds ok to me. Ive also become a huge wellwood fan. That kid plays big, and he is like a lazer beam on the ice. I dont see him getting sent down anytime soon. A hungry speedster like that in the playoffs is always handy.

I agree with all of that. There are always options. But a player of Carle's caliber will not come cheaply in a trade. And as far as UFA's, there are two comparables as far as I see it. Wideman and Suter.

And the Flyers need to keep and use their first round picks.
- MJL

What do you think Wideman would cost?

What do you think Wideman would cost?
- stveshdy

More then Carle would in my opinion. I would rank them Suter, Wideman, and then Carle.

If you want an idea in terms of Salary of what a top puck moving 2 way defenseman can command on the open market. Take a look at Ehroff's deal with Buffalo last year. Keep in mind that his Cap hit is what it is, because of the last 3 years at 1M each year.

More then Carle would in my opinion. I would rank them Suter, Wideman, and then Carle.

If you want an idea in terms of Salary of what a top puck moving 2 way defenseman can command on the open market. Take a look at Edler's deal with Buffalo last year. Keep in mind that his Cap hit is what it is, because of the last 3 years at 1M each year.
- MJL

Edler is in Vancouver. Ehroff?

Edler is in Vancouver. Erhoff?
- stveshdy

Yes, edited above. I get them confused.

Yes, edited above. I get them confused.
- MJL

I dont mind the money being paid compared to the cap hit. I wish we could get Carle for 4M per year but I dont want all those years on his deal.

Edit: I would sign Weber to that length of a deal though.

I dont mind the money being paid compared to the cap hit. I wish we could get Carle for 4M per year. I would sign up for that same exact deal today.
- stveshdy

Again, Erhoff's deal is a 4M Cap hit because it's front loaded with low years on the back end. I'm not interested in that kind of deal for Carle and I doubt the Flyers are either. So talking about that Cap hit is fantasy.

Again, Erhoff's deal is a 4M Cap hit because it's front loaded with low years on the back end. I'm not interested in that kind of deal for Carle and I doubt the Flyers are either. So talking about that Cap hit is fantasy.
- MJL

Look at previous post. I changed it around. Didn't realize it went till 2021. If Carle gets that kind of deal I would let him walk. Even more of a reason why I dont like paying Carle a lot bc when you compare him to Erhoff and Wiesnewski (sp) players similar they are overpaid and not worth it.

http://www.csnphilly.com/...blockID=678904&feedID=695

there goes any goodwill from the fakepanotch unveiling
- wilsonecho91

I'll gladly write a check for the first fine.

Look at previous post. I changed it around. Didn't realize it went till 2021. If Carle gets that kind of deal I would let him walk. Even more of a reason why I dont like paying Carle a lot bc when you compare him to Erhoff and Wiesnewski (sp) players similar they are overpaid and not worth it.
- stveshdy

Every player signed in Free Agency for the most part is overpaid. It's a fact of life. And if your team lacks a puck moving 2 way defenseman, it is defintely worth it. There is a reason why the NHL teams pay that kind of money to that type of player. I keep trying to explain that.

Every player signed in Free Agency for the most part is overpaid. It's a fact of life. And if your team lacks a puck moving 2 way defenseman, it is defintely worth it. There is a reason why the NHL teams pay that kind of money to that type of player. I keep trying to explain that.
- MJL

If the overpayment can be kept down, FA is a desirable route because it doesn't cost players or draft picks.

NHL 12 pisses me off.

If the overpayment can be kept down, FA is a desirable route because it doesn't cost players or draft picks.
- BulliesPhan87

yea but it's our turn to rob toronto so lets nab someone from there for bob