The old war horse leads the back end into battle once again.
- flyer_nutter

Warrior

Get over it Burke. What about the other teams that didnt get Crosby? The Pens won one Stanley Cup since they got Crosby. Team game. Get the right guys who play together and fit a system and it wont matter.
- stveshdy

Well, combine that with the other 4 top 5 picks in that five year stretch and you're gonna have a good team, unless you're Mike Milbury.

2002-Ryan Whitney 5th overall
2003-Marc-Andre Fleury 1st overall
2004-Evgeni Malkin 2nd overall
2005-Sidney Crosby 1st overall
2006 Jordan Staal 3rd overall

Let's face it, the Pittsburgh model was heavily influenced by the team's poor financial situation and the fact that they had teams that were routinely among the worst in the league for a good five year stretch.

Most GM's following that blueprint will end up being fired long before the full fruits of that labor are realized...as happened in Pittsburgh. Craig Patrick was the gm that endured that stretch. Ray Shero had the benefits.

Truth is his team this year choked. They were terrible after the ASB and continue to be a disappointment for years now. That falls on the GM whether or not he has Crosby on his team.
- stveshdy

I don't want my rant there to imply I approve of his job in any way. I've felt from the start of this "not rebuild" they were doomed to fall short yet again (and again and again and again). I just think the "Pittsburgh model" was an unfair comparison to throw at him in a press conference.

But having a no brainer pick handed to you, that everyone here would have made correctly. Get's your team off to a pretty good start.
- MJL

That one player helps especially if his name is Crosby (Malkin/Fluery) but you still need to find other role players that can contribute so your team can be successful. We see it all the time in sports, sometimes the best players go without championships. I look at the Caps with Oveckin who was considered the best player in the world at one time.

Leafs 5th pick. Burke looked pissy.

Edmonton gets another #1 pick.

Well, combine that with the other 4 top 5 picks in that five year stretch and you're gonna have a good team, unless you're Mike Milbury.

2002-Ryan Whitney 5th overall
2003-Marc-Andre Fleury 1st overall
2004-Evgeni Malkin 2nd overall
2005-Sidney Crosby 1st overall
2006 Jordan Staal 3rd overall

Let's face it, the Pittsburgh model was heavily influenced by the team's poor financial situation and the fact that they had teams that were routinely among the worst in the league for a good five year stretch.

Most GM's following that blueprint will end up being fired long before the full fruits of that labor are realized...as happened in Pittsburgh. Craig Patrick was the gm that endured that stretch. Ray Shero had the benefits.
- Jsaquella

You also have to get lucky and hope that those top players pan out.

they can have a lot of influence. They need to try to call this series evenly. By making that call on Rinaldo that clearly influenced the outcome. How can you say that removing a player on a BS call doesn't change the outcome of the game?
- LJF

They won't make that call tommorow night. Who cares about last weeks game

I don't want my rant there to imply I approve of his job in any way. I've felt from the start of this "not rebuild" they were doomed to fall short yet again (and again and again and again). I just think the "Pittsburgh model" was an unfair comparison to throw at him in a press conference.
- BulliesPhan87

I agree.

Malkin, Crosby, and Fluery helped the rebuild no doubt but the GM has still managed to put good players around those guys. You have the right to "not respect" the Pittsburgh organization.
- stveshdy

To me it is the "core" that wins games.

That core of Malkin, Crosby, Fleury and Staal was all due to high picks.

It's the core of a team that will usually win a series, not the complementary players. The guys Shero has assembled around them werent exactly moves no other GM would have thought of.

They are where they are because of tanking. Their fans forget it too often.

I don't want my rant there to imply I approve of his job in any way. I've felt from the start of this "not rebuild" they were doomed to fall short yet again (and again and again and again). I just think the "Pittsburgh model" was an unfair comparison to throw at him in a press conference.
- BulliesPhan87

I agree completely. Having a top 5 pick for a number of years in a row sure makes it easier.

Look at the Flyers when they had the 2nd overall pick. I like JVR and think he's going to be a very good player. But there wasn't a Malkin available.

They won't make that call tommorow night. Who cares about last weeks game
- Just5

If I had to put an "ultimatum" on the Rinaldo call, it was that the referees didn't want cheap hits to remove players heading into the playoffs. I don't think it was intended to set a tone for the series.

That said, I still think the call was crap.

You also have to get lucky and hope that those top players pan out.
- stveshdy

At the same time.

Malkin and Crosby are generational talents. The Pens simply got lucky on those.
They were obvious picks.

While guys like RNH and Yakupov are projected to be great they arent nowhere near to being as locked for dominance as Malkin and Crosby were.

To me it is the "core" that wins games.

That core of Malkin, Crosby, Fleury and Staal was all due to high picks.

It's the core of a team that will usually win a series, not the complementary players. The guys Shero has assembled around them werent exactly moves no other GM would have thought of.

They are where they are because of tanking. Their fans forget it too often.
- flyer_nutter

I don't think it's fair to sell Shero short. He's made a lot of very good shrewd moves to build around that core. Tyler Kennedy scored how many Stanley Cup winning goals? The complimentary players sorrounding the core are every bit as crucial as the core itself.

You also have to get lucky and hope that those top players pan out.
- stveshdy

Well, out of the top 5 picks, they got two guys that were considered "no brainer" franchise players in Crosby and Malkin. These guys were not carrying question marks.

Guys like John Tavares, Rick DiPietro, Rick Nash, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Taylor Hall, James van Riemsdyk, Patrick Kane did not have the level of stardom predicted for those two guys.

Not many teams were able to be in a position to draft two Hart caliber players in the space of two years. When you have the ability to draft two guys who can win the Hart Trophy and Art Ross in back to back drafts, the role players become less important.

@68Jagr: I'm starting a new Twitter before the NHL playoffs. Video: http://www.twitvid.com/FTSDV Wish us everybody good luck tomorrow. Let’s go #Flyers!
- tangent_man

I could not love him more.

My thing is this.

I understand the Rinaldo call even though I dont agree with it. They want to keep control of the series. The Rinaldo call was a message that dirty play wont be tolerated. Even though I do not think the hit was dirty.

They can have a lot of influence on this series. If they call every damn thing then the pens have the upper hand. Due to the available weapons they can put out on their PP if nothing else.

If the Flyers are to have a real chance imo they need to be given the chance to establish a strong physical game and get under the pens skin. The refs can certainly control that aspect. If the Flyers can make those big hits like Rinaldo did without being penalized, they have a better shot imo.


If this series gets into a very methodical and little emotion battle. I dont like the Flyers chance.
- flyer_nutter

I agree. The more agitating the flyers can be the more it benefits them. If the zebras call a tight series. It will benefit the pens. Flyers need to get involved in the extracurricular activity. Make this a bit of a circus

Yakupov is the best player in this draft by a pretty heavy amount, but all bets are off now that Edmonton got the 1st pick. They have picked wingers with 3 of their past 5 1st round picks, and all of their past 5 picks have been forwards.

Well, out of the top 5 picks, they got two guys that were considered "no brainer" franchise players in Crosby and Malkin. These guys were not carrying question marks.

Guys like John Tavares, Rick DiPietro, Rick Nash, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Taylor Hall, James van Riemsdyk, Patrick Kane did not have the level of stardom predicted for those two guys.

Not many teams were able to be in a position to draft two Hart caliber players in the space of two years. When you have the ability to draft two guys who can win the Hart Trophy and Art Ross in back to back drafts, the role players become less important.
- Jsaquella

Tavares definitely did. He was as hyped as any prospect not named Crosby during the past decade.

I agree completely. Having a top 5 pick for a number of years in a row sure makes it easier.

Look at the Flyers when they had the 2nd overall pick. I like JVR and think he's going to be a very good player. But there wasn't a Malkin available.
- MJL

Exactly, and there's no guarantee that caliber player is available in even one of five straight years of lottery picks (though I'm not qualified to appraise exactly what the odds are).

Exactly, and there's no guarantee that caliber player is available in even one of five straight years of lottery picks (though I'm not qualified to appraise exactly what the odds are).
- BulliesPhan87

This year fits that bill. It's an overall weak draft class at the top.

To me it is the "core" that wins games.

That core of Malkin, Crosby, Fleury and Staal was all due to high picks.

It's the core of a team that will usually win a series, not the complementary players. The guys Shero has assembled around them werent exactly moves no other GM would have thought of.

They are where they are because of tanking. Their fans forget it too often.
- flyer_nutter

They weren't tanking. They just sucked.

Tavares definitely did. He was as hyped as any prospect not named Crosby during the past decade.
- LordStanley88

Tavares was no where near as sure a thing as Crosby.

Wayne Gretzky never said that if anyone could break his records it would be Tavares. He did say that of Crosby when he was 15 years old.

Tavares was obviously seen as a top prospect, as was Nash and the others I listed. But none of them were as highly rated as Crosby. Not even close.

I agree. The more agitating the flyers can be the more it benefits them. If the zebras call a tight series. It will benefit the pens. Flyers need to get involved in the extracurricular activity. Make this a bit of a circus
- Just5

The Flyers need to play hard within the context of the game. If they make it a "circus" and get involved in too many extracarricular activities, it will lead to PP's. There is a limit to that.

Well, out of the top 5 picks, they got two guys that were considered "no brainer" franchise players in Crosby and Malkin. These guys were not carrying question marks.

Guys like John Tavares, Rick DiPietro, Rick Nash, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Taylor Hall, James van Riemsdyk, Patrick Kane did not have the level of stardom predicted for those two guys.

Not many teams were able to be in a position to draft two Hart caliber players in the space of two years. When you have the ability to draft two guys who can win the Hart Trophy and Art Ross in back to back drafts, the role players become less important.
- Jsaquella

Look how close the Penguins were to having Ovechkin and Crosby. Though at the moment Malkin is better. Still, can you imagine those two on a line together?

Yakupov is the best player in this draft by a pretty heavy amount, but all bets are off now that Edmonton got the 1st pick. They have picked wingers with 3 of their past 5 1st round picks, and all of their past 5 picks have been forwards.
- LordStanley88

Yakupov is the highest rated, but it's not that wide a margin. The top of the 1st round features a lot of guys that were hurt this year and there could be a lot of sleepers.