cooke is the only one who isnt a thug. he should wear it next year, imo
- FlyerMike18

I think they need an outside addition. Laying the blame on Bylsma will only fuel the players arrogance more, but its clear they have to do something about their on ice leadership. Id hate to see it but Iggy would absolutely lay the smackdown in that locker room.

So, when the Flyers had 5 or 6 guys suspended in 2007-08, it was the team leadership's fault?

The first two games were pretty clean affairs. Neither team really did anything too bad in the games in Pittsburgh.

Yesterday, the Pens got frustrated. That happens, and sometimes it leads to dirty play. The Flyers have been guilty of it in the past and so has every other team in the NHL.

You want to blame Pens' leadership, it starts with Lemieux. He did the same sort of things Crosby does now. He was an amazing player, perhaps the most naturally gifted one of all time. But he was-and remains-a very thin skinned guy.
- Jsaquella

well i think the first 2 suspensions that year were incidents in the preseason. after that it was open season on suspending flyers. leadership wasn't to blame per se, but should bear some of the blame.

the pens took it to a new level. their actions were more out of hand than anything i've ever seen before (been watching hockey since 92 when i was 12)

i don't know if i go after lemieux, i'd have to see that he was involved in their movement to bring in and develop goons, but bylsma and their gm imo certainly deserve some of the blame.

also the league is at fault for a good bit as well

I think they need an outside addition. Laying the blame on Bylsma will only fuel the players arrogance more, but its clear they have to do something about their on ice leadership. Id hate to see it but Iggy would absolutely lay the smackdown in that locker room.
- hereticpride

I think that they need some veteran leadership, but disagree on stripping the C.

I think if they had a Bill Guerin or Jarome Iginla, they don't blown 3 straight leads and yesterday's shenanigans don't happen.

Losing 2 straight games, and blowing yet another early lead was more of a reason for the shenanigans yesterday than poor leadership. Coming into the game with a 2-6-1 record against the Flyers on the season was a bigger factor.

Yesterday's actions were the culmination of a lot of frustration. That doesn't make Crosby a bad captain or Bylsma a bad coach. It means that the Flyers need to keep doing what they're doing.

Dang what happened to Vancouver? My how the mighty have fallen this year. Penguins and Nucks both down 3-0, who'd a thunk it.

I picked the Flyers to win but I thought 6 games at least. Could still happen but I feel strongly this thing is closed out wednesday.

you're absolutely right. asham acted on his own in that instance. however the leadership element of his team, imo, strongly encourages that type of behavior. it was also a heat of the moment act by asham
- flyerscup2011

I don't think there is any doubt that Crosby set the example for his team, and they followed him. With the exception of the Asham crosscheck which was a response to Schenn's hit.

Dang what happened to Vancouver? My how the mighty have fallen this year. Penguins and Nucks both down 3-0, who'd a thunk it.

I picked the Flyers to win but I thought 6 games at least. Could still happen but I feel strongly this thing is closed out wednesday.
- JoeRussomanno

honestly, i wasn't worried about beating the pens. i was worried the pens would take some liberties against the flyers during the series. i thought 5 or 6 games assuming the pens didn't injure anyone too early in the series

I don't think there is any doubt that Crosby set the example for his team, and they followed him. With the exception of the Asham crosscheck which was a response to Schenn's hit.
- MJL

i see it that way also

well i think the first 2 suspensions that year were incidents in the preseason. after that it was open season on suspending flyers. leadership wasn't to blame per se, but should bear some of the blame.

the pens took it to a new level. their actions were more out of hand than anything i've ever seen before (been watching hockey since 92 when i was 12)

i don't know if i go after lemieux, i'd have to see that he was involved in their movement to bring in and develop goons, but bylsma and their gm imo certainly deserve some of the blame.

also the league is at fault for a good bit as well
- flyerscup2011

Oh, so there's no captain or leadership in the pre-season? Nailing a guy with an illegal check in a game that doesn't count is better than losing your cool in a playoff game, where your team has blown 3 straight leads and you're looking at going down 3-0 in the series?

Crosschecking a guy in the face in the second game of the regular season, in a game against a team you see once a year is not as bad as a run at a guy who already hit you in the same game and whose team has played you 8 times that season and owned your team? Please, let's look at things with a degree of logic here.

If yesterday was the worst case of dirty hockey you have ever seen, then you need to watch more hockey. Were the Pens playing dirty, or at least guilty of a few dirty plays? Absolutely. But that stuff happens.

When Mario Lemieux came into the NHL, he did exactly the kind of things Crosby does. I recall a Flyers-Pens game when the 5-7 Al Conroy got into a scrum with Lemieux, and Lemieux went down like a rock after Conroy threw a punch that glanced off his shoulder. Lemieux didn;t get calls later in his career because he constantly whined to refs as a rookie and second year guy.

And yes, the NHL deserves blame, for ignoring the kind of antics that Malkin and Crosby get away with, the embellishments and slew footing...which they let most star players get away with. Alexander Ovechkin gets away with a ton of things, too. The NHL also deserves blame for not coming down hard on Weber.

I'd still take him on my team in a heartbeat.
- Jsaquella

I'd take the talent, but taking that person is basically selling your soul at the crossroads.

I think that they need some veteran leadership, but disagree on stripping the C.

I think if they had a Bill Guerin or Jarome Iginla, they don't blown 3 straight leads and yesterday's shenanigans don't happen.

Losing 2 straight games, and blowing yet another early lead was more of a reason for the shenanigans yesterday than poor leadership. Coming into the game with a 2-6-1 record against the Flyers on the season was a bigger factor.

Yesterday's actions were the culmination of a lot of frustration. That doesn't make Crosby a bad captain or Bylsma a bad coach. It means that the Flyers need to keep doing what they're doing.
- Jsaquella

I think they're going to strongly consider it. You bring in a guy like that and you eventually get a split locker room just like Pronger and Richards. They need a fundamental change in on ice leadership. Hell, it'd probably be a beneficial move for Sid as well.

We'll see though. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't change at all either. The coach, the team. They're all smug. If there's a change it gonna come from Mario.

I don't think there is any doubt that Crosby set the example for his team, and they followed him. With the exception of the Asham crosscheck which was a response to Schenn's hit.
- MJL

I agree. The Pens have no choice but to defend their leader and captain. So when he acts like a jackass they have to still protect him.

The Pens coach has completely lost control of his team.

I'd take the talent, but taking that person is basically selling your soul at the crossroads.
- Lexington Flyer

Did you root for Jaromir Jagr this year? Did you abandon the Flyers when they traded for Ulf Samuelsson? How do you feel about Max Talbot, who SHHH'd the WFC in 2009?

I think they're going to strongly consider it. You bring in a guy like that and you eventually get a split locker room just like Pronger and Richards. They need a fundamental change in on ice leadership. Hell, it'd probably be a beneficial move for Sid as well.

We'll see though. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't change at all either. The coach, the team. They're all smug. If there's a change it gonna come from Mario.
- hereticpride

Crosby's a lot more mature than Richards is. And I'm a fan of Richards

Oh, so there's no captain or leadership in the pre-season? Nailing a guy with an illegal check in a game that doesn't count is better than losing your cool in a playoff game, where your team has blown 3 straight leads and you're looking at going down 3-0 in the series?

Crosschecking a guy in the face in the second game of the regular season, in a game against a team you see once a year is not as bad as a run at a guy who already hit you in the same game and whose team has played you 8 times that season and owned your team? Please, let's look at things with a degree of logic here.

If yesterday was the worst case of dirty hockey you have ever seen, then you need to watch more hockey. Were the Pens playing dirty, or at least guilty of a few dirty plays? Absolutely. But that stuff happens.

When Mario Lemieux came into the NHL, he did exactly the kind of things Crosby does. I recall a Flyers-Pens game when the 5-7 Al Conroy got into a scrum with Lemieux, and Lemieux went down like a rock after Conroy threw a punch that glanced off his shoulder. Lemieux didn;t get calls later in his career because he constantly whined to refs as a rookie and second year guy.

And yes, the NHL deserves blame, for ignoring the kind of antics that Malkin and Crosby get away with, the embellishments and slew footing...which they let most star players get away with. Alexander Ovechkin gets away with a ton of things, too. The NHL also deserves blame for not coming down hard on Weber.
- Jsaquella

I think everyone is just frustrated at the fact we almost lost Couturier and Giroux for the rest of the playoffs yesterday and are looking past the fact the Flyers are doing everything to the pens but laying them in a grave at this point.

I agree with what you are saying, especially about yesterday being the dirtiest thing in hockey, no it absolutelywasn't, But it was pretty bad nonetheless. That being said people are just caught up in the emotional aspect. The rush of a big win and the outrage at what Pittsburgh set out to do as the game ended.
GO FLYERS!!!

Crosby's a lot more mature than Richards is. And I'm a fan of Richards
- Jsaquella

On the ice?

honestly, i wasn't worried about beating the pens. i was worried the pens would take some liberties against the flyers during the series. i thought 5 or 6 games assuming the pens didn't injure anyone too early in the series
- flyerscup2011

Not that I was worried but i thought this series was going to be a lot tighter than it has been. Didn't think the Flyers would come out of Pitt with a 2-0 lead and now 3-0. The pens are tough team with a lot of talent. For the Flyers to pull off what they are doing, matchups or no matchups, speaks volumes to what the Flyers are.

Oh, so there's no captain or leadership in the pre-season? Nailing a guy with an illegal check in a game that doesn't count is better than losing your cool in a playoff game, where your team has blown 3 straight leads and you're looking at going down 3-0 in the series?

Crosschecking a guy in the face in the second game of the regular season, in a game against a team you see once a year is not as bad as a run at a guy who already hit you in the same game and whose team has played you 8 times that season and owned your team? Please, let's look at things with a degree of logic here.

If yesterday was the worst case of dirty hockey you have ever seen, then you need to watch more hockey. Were the Pens playing dirty, or at least guilty of a few dirty plays? Absolutely. But that stuff happens.


When Mario Lemieux came into the NHL, he did exactly the kind of things Crosby does. I recall a Flyers-Pens game when the 5-7 Al Conroy got into a scrum with Lemieux, and Lemieux went down like a rock after Conroy threw a punch that glanced off his shoulder. Lemieux didn;t get calls later in his career because he constantly whined to refs as a rookie and second year guy.

And yes, the NHL deserves blame, for ignoring the kind of antics that Malkin and Crosby get away with, the embellishments and slew footing...which they let most star players get away with. Alexander Ovechkin gets away with a ton of things, too. The NHL also deserves blame for not coming down hard on Weber.
- Jsaquella

obviously you're a lot more old school than i am. i'm looking at this situation with nothing but logic. you asked me about something that happened what 5 years ago, and i never compared it to the pens. i never said what was worse. the season 5 years ago was isolated incidents that piled up. the pens are a pattern of behavior. i'm actually surprised and offended you would attack my logic in this case. i feel it's unfounded. also, in the preseason you have what a 60 man roster, so no leadership isn't as responsible it's a lot easier to handle 20 men than 60, i'm sure that's logical. i really don't remember specifics of what guys got suspended for that year. all i know is james neal was running around trying to cause a concussion on giroux and couturier, asham tried to crush schenn's windpipe, letang had a gutless fight with kimmo and adams cheapshotted hartnell when he was shoving crosby. those are major things in a short time span.

I think everyone is just frustrated at the fact we almost lost Couturier and Giroux for the rest of the playoffs yesterday and are looking past the fact the Flyers are doing everything to the pens but laying them in a grave at this point.

I agree with what you are saying, especially about yesterday being the dirtiest thing in hockey, no it absolutelywasn't, But it was pretty bad nonetheless. That being said people are just caught up in the emotional aspect. The rush of a big win and the outrage at what Pittsburgh set out to do as the game ended.
GO FLYERS!!!
- JoeRussomanno

Its playoff hockey and I expect things to get rough/chippy. What I dont like is when players are taking runs at other players (Neal). Also if you want to fight do it one on one dont grab guys from behind or start throwing punches while their tied up.

I think everyone is just frustrated at the fact we almost lost Couturier and Giroux for the rest of the playoffs yesterday and are looking past the fact the Flyers are doing everything to the pens but laying them in a grave at this point.

I agree with what you are saying, especially about yesterday being the dirtiest thing in hockey, no it absolutelywasn't, But it was pretty bad nonetheless. That being said people are just caught up in the emotional aspect. The rush of a big win and the outrage at what Pittsburgh set out to do as the game ended.
GO FLYERS!!!
- JoeRussomanno

I was worried about injuries, too. And there's nothing wrong with being emotional. But I'm also not going to abandon logic and say that the Pens antics yesterday were the darkest stain on the NHL in it's history, or blame Crosby for the misguided actions of a cementhead like Asham or for Neal's dirty play.

I'm frustrated at Crosby's punk antics, sure. But his antics are not why Asham and Neal have hearings

obviously you're a lot more old school than i am. i'm looking at this situation with nothing but logic. you asked me about something that happened what 5 years ago, and i never compared it to the pens. i never said what was worse. the season 5 years ago was isolated incidents that piled up. the pens are a pattern of behavior. i'm actually surprised and offended you would attack my logic in this case. i feel it's unfounded. also, in the preseason you have what a 60 man roster, so no leadership isn't as responsible it's a lot easier to handle 20 men than 60, i'm sure that's logical. i really don't remember specifics of what guys got suspended for that year. all i know is james neal was running around trying to cause a concussion on giroux and couturier, asham tried to crush schenn's windpipe, letang had a gutless fight with kimmo and adams cheapshotted hartnell when he was shoving crosby. those are major things in a short time span.
- flyerscup2011

Thats chicken poop hockey right there. I understand frustration and bad blood during a series but when your trying to hurt players on purpose then it becomes a problem.

Thats chicken poop hockey right there. I understand frustration and bad blood during a series but when your trying to hurt players on purpose then it becomes a problem.
- stveshdy

plain and simple, there's no place in the game for behavior of that ilk

I was worried about injuries, too. And there's nothing wrong with being emotional. But I'm also not going to abandon logic and say that the Pens antics yesterday were the darkest stain on the NHL in it's history, or blame Crosby for the misguided actions of a cementhead like Asham or for Neal's dirty play.

I'm frustrated at Crosby's punk antics, sure. But his antics are not why Asham and Neal have hearings
- Jsaquella

Directly, no. But indirectly, certainly. Crosby set the tone and was the instigator in most of what happened yesterday. He did the most to create the environment that the game was played in. Maybe Neal still does what he did if Crosby didn't do anything. Who knows. But Crosby played the biggest role in it all yesterday.

Directly, no. But indirectly, certainly. Crosby set the tone and was the instigator in most of what happened yesterday. He did the most to create the environment that the game was played in. Maybe Neal still does what he did if Crosby didn't do anything. Who knows. But Crosby played the biggest role in it all yesterday.
- MJL

Couldnt agree more.

i think the league needs to warn the pens prior to game 4 that if they do anything to cause another powder keg or take a run at any player on the flyers, even rinaldo major fines and suspensions are coming. they should let their brass know if anything happens the team and its executive will be heavily fined

i think the league needs to warn the pens prior to game 4 that if they do anything to cause another powder keg or take a run at any player on the flyers, even rinaldo major fines and suspensions are coming. they should let their brass know if anything happens the team and its executive will be heavily fined