obviously you're a lot more old school than i am. i'm looking at this situation with nothing but logic. you asked me about something that happened what 5 years ago, and i never compared it to the pens. i never said what was worse. the season 5 years ago was isolated incidents that piled up. the pens are a pattern of behavior. i'm actually surprised and offended you would attack my logic in this case. i feel it's unfounded. also, in the preseason you have what a 60 man roster, so no leadership isn't as responsible it's a lot easier to handle 20 men than 60, i'm sure that's logical. i really don't remember specifics of what guys got suspended for that year. all i know is james neal was running around trying to cause a concussion on giroux and couturier, asham tried to crush schenn's windpipe, letang had a gutless fight with kimmo and adams cheapshotted hartnell when he was shoving crosby. those are major things in a short time span.
- flyerscup2011

And you blame all of those bolded actions, by guys NOT named Crosby, on Crosby and his leadership.

That is illogical.

The logical analysis of yesterday's game will be simple-the Penguins have been owned by the Flyers this year. They were favorites in a playoff series in which they led each of the first three games, and ended up losing each game, including two at home.

In each of their last six games against the Flyers, the Pens have taken an early lead, only to have the Flyers come back in each game. The only one of those 6 that the Pens won, the game was meaningless.

That equals frustration. The Pens have thrown everything but the kitchen sink at the Flyers and still can't beat them. Asham's crosscheck and punches to Schenn's head and Neal's hit were pure frustration.

Letang and Adams were cases of teammates coming to the aid of their team's star player. Just like Flyers fans would applaud Hartnell coming to the aid of Giroux.

i think the league needs to warn the pens prior to game 4 that if they do anything to cause another powder keg or take a run at any player on the flyers, even rinaldo major fines and suspensions are coming. they should let their brass know if anything happens the team and its executive will be heavily fined
- flyerscup2011

I wouldnt of had any problems with the Pens yesterday if they were fighting back with some honor. However they chose to take runs and hit people from behind. If your frustrated and want to set a tone do it the right way. Fight people one on one. Hit people who actually have the puck. Dont head hunt players or cross check a guy in the throat.

Another fine blog, Mr. Meltzer.

And lest people think the only people irate about yesterday's antics are Philly-related...

http://boston.cbslocal.co...s-nhls-leading-hypocrite/

http://www.lighthousehock...ers-statement-foolishness

i think the reason i have such a problem with the pens' antics yesterday is that the flyers did NOTHING to deserve what the pens dished out then ran and hid

And you blame all of those bolded actions, by guys NOT named Crosby, on Crosby and his leadership.

That is illogical.

The logical analysis of yesterday's game will be simple-the Penguins have been owned by the Flyers this year. They were favorites in a playoff series in which they led each of the first three games, and ended up losing each game, including two at home.

In each of their last six games against the Flyers, the Pens have taken an early lead, only to have the Flyers come back in each game. The only one of those 6 that the Pens won, the game was meaningless.

That equals frustration. The Pens have thrown everything but the kitchen sink at the Flyers and still can't beat them. Asham's crosscheck and punches to Schenn's head and Neal's hit were pure frustration.

Letang and Adams were cases of teammates coming to the aid of their team's star player. Just like Flyers fans would applaud Hartnell coming to the aid of Giroux.
- Jsaquella

ok, when did i blame crosby for any of that? i didn't i said his leadership led to it.

Very entertaining game yesterday. Love coming to work on Monday with no voice. Ppl ask if I'm sick and I tell them I was @ Flyers/Pens game, then I just get a look.

Morons.

Flyers put this series away on Wednesday and get rested up for round 2. Get JVR some practice time, too!

Another fine blog, Mr. Meltzer.

And lest people think the only people irate about yesterday's antics are Philly-related...

http://boston.cbslocal.co...s-nhls-leading-hypocrite/

http://www.lighthousehock...ers-statement-foolishness
- Flyskippy

Get the apology letter ready.

ok, when did i blame crosby for any of that? i didn't i said his leadership led to it.
- flyerscup2011

Page 11

you're absolutely right. asham acted on his own in that instance. however the leadership element of his team, imo, strongly encourages that type of behavior. it was also a heat of the moment act by asham
- flyerscup2011

i think the league needs to warn the pens prior to game 4 that if they do anything to cause another powder keg or take a run at any player on the flyers, even rinaldo major fines and suspensions are coming. they should let their brass know if anything happens the team and its executive will be heavily fined
- flyerscup2011

Doesn't matter. They'll serve the suspensions during the preseason and their pockets are deep. If the Flyers stand to win this game in regulation someone is getting run at. They simply have no voice of reason on their bench. I wouldn't be surprised to see their whole team skip the handshakes. And really what have the Flyers done to them this series besides beat them? Its laughable how childish their on ice product is.


I love that they're imploding against such a young team too. It iust magnifies their foolishness even more.

Another fine blog, Mr. Meltzer.

And lest people think the only people irate about yesterday's antics are Philly-related...

http://boston.cbslocal.co...s-nhls-leading-hypocrite/

http://www.lighthousehock...ers-statement-foolishness
- Flyskippy

That's why my biggest beef with the Pens is with Lemieux. He's condoned and thrived with goons, but when it gets turned on him, he acts as if he'd never consort with the thug element of the sport. It's the same sort of thing that bugs me with Crosby when he acts holier than thou.

Page 11
- Jsaquella

that blames crosby? you must have read into that something i didn't mean. my point is the coach and captain lead, the team follows. crosby did all sorts of things trying try stir the pot, then hid behind his goons or the refs or both. that encouraged the nastiness. he bears responsibility for what happened, but isn't solely to blame.

Doesn't matter. They'll serve the suspensions during the preseason and their pockets are deep. If the Flyers stand to win this game in regulation someone is getting run at. They simply have no voice of reason on their bench. I wouldn't be surprised to see their whole team skip the handshakes. And really what have the Flyers done to them this series besides beat them? Its laughable how childish their on ice product is.


I love that they're imploding against such a young team too. It iust magnifies their foolishness even more.
- hereticpride

i seriously doubt the league would let a team serve its suspensions in the preseason. we'll worry about the handshake line when the series is over.

Directly, no. But indirectly, certainly. Crosby set the tone and was the instigator in most of what happened yesterday. He did the most to create the environment that the game was played in. Maybe Neal still does what he did if Crosby didn't do anything. Who knows. But Crosby played the biggest role in it all yesterday.
- MJL

Agreed. That's how I saw it

that blames crosby? you must have read into that something i didn't mean. my point is the coach and captain lead, the team follows. crosby did all sorts of things trying try stir the pot, then hid behind his goons or the refs or both. that encouraged the nastiness. he bears responsibility for what happened, but isn't solely to blame.
- flyerscup2011

So on page 11 you blame the leadership that encourages that behavior, but not Crosby?

So on page 11 you blame the leadership that encourages that behavior, but not Crosby?
- Jsaquella

he deserves blame for encouraging that type of behavior, yes. obviously asham, adams and neal are guilty for doing the actions, but i think their childish behavior and constantly cheap shotting flyers is the penguins players following their leader to a certain extent.

And you blame all of those bolded actions, by guys NOT named Crosby, on Crosby and his leadership.

That is illogical.

The logical analysis of yesterday's game will be simple-the Penguins have been owned by the Flyers this year. They were favorites in a playoff series in which they led each of the first three games, and ended up losing each game, including two at home.

In each of their last six games against the Flyers, the Pens have taken an early lead, only to have the Flyers come back in each game. The only one of those 6 that the Pens won, the game was meaningless.

That equals frustration. The Pens have thrown everything but the kitchen sink at the Flyers and still can't beat them. Asham's crosscheck and punches to Schenn's head and Neal's hit were pure frustration.

Letang and Adams were cases of teammates coming to the aid of their team's star player. Just like Flyers fans would applaud Hartnell coming to the aid of Giroux.
- Jsaquella

Logic is fun and has its' place in all conversations, but you're clearly removing the human element from the conversation. In the technical sense, Crosby is to be blamed for Crosby-related incidents, just as Neal is to blame for Neal-related incidents. However, you cannot discount that players follow the lead from their captain.

If you have a calm and cool captain that rises above after-whistle scrums, then you know him to be that guy. But when you see him get involved in these scrums, and even instigate 2 or 3 of them; some of the more emotional players are likely to follow suit and do the same thing. It's the same "logic" that can be explained as to why a team gets so excited after seeing a Briere or Giroux fight/throw a big check. And the result? The team follows that emotion and can either use it as motivation to score goals, or try to replicate it and start hitting./fighting as well.

I have no issues with Crosby starting sh*t on the ice. Hartnell is guilty of it more than enough times. I'd say it's above Crosby, but nothing has worked for them in this series, so I'm not shocked by it. But the manner in which he does. Ganging up on Hartnell, grabbing players from behind, trying to fight a pacifist like Timonen, knocking the glove away from Vorcacek, whacking at Bryz's glove, etc. He simply did it without class. And either way you slice it, when you see your captain acting out of character, it's something that the teammates are going to notice and act on. Sucks for Pitt that they decided to goon it up instead of laying legal hits and scoring goals like they've been doing the whole series; but that was their choice. I still say Crosby bears some of the blame for the game getting out of hand.

Either way, this series is over after Wednesday and Crosby&Co. have all off-season to think back on how they embarrassed themselves.

Doesn't matter. They'll serve the suspensions during the preseason and their pockets are deep. If the Flyers stand to win this game in regulation someone is getting run at. They simply have no voice of reason on their bench. I wouldn't be surprised to see their whole team skip the handshakes. And really what have the Flyers done to them this series besides beat them? Its laughable how childish their on ice product is.


I love that they're imploding against such a young team too. It iust magnifies their foolishness even more.
- hereticpride

I'll say this much the Flyers are playing like a team that is on a mission. They need to continue to play their game and the rest will take care of itself. Would like to see Bryzgalov play alittle better than he did in Game 3. I think Bryz has done a solid job and has made some key stops but I think he can be better (I have faith he will also).

Every game I have been getting more amped than the last. Wednesday is gonna be ridiculous. I feel if they play clean(well, as clean as flyers can play) and get a goal or 2 on them early, the Pens will fold up shop. They don't have the mental toughness this year. I think all the media and the "experts" filled up their egos and they assumed we would be in awe of this team. We got that way last post season. We were the Flyers and could just flip a switch and get back to the Cup. Well, as we learned, we, as a team(Danny might be the exception) can not. I like how they are playing. People are saying if we were playing any other team we would be done. Pitt plays a run and gun game. We can keep up with that. But, if I remember correctly, we won a lot of games of the past two months of the regular season 2 to 1, 2 to 0, 1 to 0 and 3 to 1. Not a lot of offense because we were playing steady defense. I love this team and their never-say-die. But I really love this team because they are that, A TEAM.

he deserves blame for encouraging that type of behavior, yes.
- flyerscup2011

So in other words, you're blaming Crosby for the actions of Asham, Neal, Letang and Adams?

I'm not denying that Crosby played a role. But he's not the only guy in the league that tries to stir the pot when his team in in a hole or out of frustration.

Asham's known as a chippy player whether he's a Pen or Islander or Flyer or Devil. Neal got suspended as a member of Dallas. Adams and Letang intervened when their team's star player with concussion problems was involved in fights. You saying you'd have a problem if Hartnell jumped in if Giroux was sparring?

And if you want to blame Pens' leadership for the "debacle" yesterday, it starts with Mario Lemieux

So in other words, you're blaming Crosby for the actions of Asham, Neal, Letang and Adams?

I'm not denying that Crosby played a role. But he's not the only guy in the league that tries to stir the pot when his team in in a hole or out of frustration.

Asham's known as a chippy player whether he's a Pen or Islander or Flyer or Devil. Neal got suspended as a member of Dallas. Adams and Letang intervened when their team's star player with concussion problems was involved in fights. You saying you'd have a problem if Hartnell jumped in if Giroux was sparring?

And if you want to blame Pens' leadership for the "debacle" yesterday, it starts with Mario Lemieux
- Jsaquella

We have the Pens right were we want them. I couldnt ask for a better situation at this point in time. What happened yesterday was terrible but thankfully no Flyers were injured and on Wednesday night the Flyers can burry this team for good.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/

Logic is fun and has its' place in all conversations, but you're clearly removing the human element from the conversation. In the technical sense, Crosby is to be blamed for Crosby-related incidents, just as Neal is to blame for Neal-related incidents. However, you cannot discount that players follow the lead from their captain.

If you have a calm and cool captain that rises above after-whistle scrums, then you know him to be that guy. But when you see him get involved in these scrums, and even instigate 2 or 3 of them; some of the more emotional players are likely to follow suit and do the same thing. It's the same "logic" that can be explained as to why a team gets so excited after seeing a Briere or Giroux fight/throw a big check. And the result? The team follows that emotion and can either use it as motivation to score goals, or try to replicate it and start hitting./fighting as well.

I have no issues with Crosby starting sh*t on the ice. Hartnell is guilty of it more than enough times. I'd say it's above Crosby, but nothing has worked for them in this series, so I'm not shocked by it. But the manner in which he does. Ganging up on Hartnell, grabbing players from behind, trying to fight a pacifist like Timonen, knocking the glove away from Vorcacek, whacking at Bryz's glove, etc. He simply did it without class. And either way you slice it, when you see your captain acting out of character, it's something that the teammates are going to notice and act on. Sucks for Pitt that they decided to goon it up instead of laying legal hits and scoring goals like they've been doing the whole series; but that was their choice. I still say Crosby bears some of the blame for the game getting out of hand.

Either way, this series is over after Wednesday and Crosby&Co. have all off-season to think back on how they embarrassed themselves.
- steelydan

I'm not removing emotion from the issue at all. In fact, I blame the emotion of frustration and not being able to beat the Flyers, blowing leads in six straight games, and being largely outplayed by the Flyers as the main causes of their actions.

Certainly, Crosby deserves some of the blame-he initiated the fights that saw Adams and Letang booted and he certainly was trying to stir the pot. However, there's lots of guys that do the same kind of thing all over the NHL.

The incidents that bug me were Asham and Neal's two hits. The other stuff was just typical frustration and shenanigans that happen out of it.

I'm not removing emotion from the issue at all. In fact, I blame the emotion of frustration and not being able to beat the Flyers, blowing leads in six straight games, and being largely outplayed by the Flyers as the main causes of their actions.

Certainly, Crosby deserves some of the blame-he initiated the fights that saw Adams and Letang booted and he certainly was trying to stir the pot. However, there's lots of guys that do the same kind of thing all over the NHL.

The incidents that bug me were Asham and Neal's two hits. The other stuff was just typical frustration and shenanigans that happen out of it.
- Jsaquella

I hope the Pens keep running around like idiots giving the Flyers PP's because we are burry most of those chances. A lack of focus is just what the doctor ordered.

So in other words, you're blaming Crosby for the actions of Asham, Neal, Letang and Adams?

I'm not denying that Crosby played a role. But he's not the only guy in the league that tries to stir the pot when his team in in a hole or out of frustration.

Asham's known as a chippy player whether he's a Pen or Islander or Flyer or Devil. Neal got suspended as a member of Dallas. Adams and Letang intervened when their team's star player with concussion problems was involved in fights. You saying you'd have a problem if Hartnell jumped in if Giroux was sparring?

And if you want to blame Pens' leadership for the "debacle" yesterday, it starts with Mario Lemieux
- Jsaquella

I get where he's coming from. Crosby should be capable of controlling his team. He didn't control them. I think he spoke more words to the Flyers then he ever did with his whole bench. In fact he was out there doing his best Avery impersonation quite a bit too. He's not directly responsible for those named incidents but he should of urged those guys to play differently. Ultimately the Captain always has to answer for his team. And the fact Sid was instigating a bunch of the scrums puts him a bit more at fault than usual.

What a riot. You know the Pens have turned completely to the dark side when Isles, Rangers, and Devils fans are openly rooting for the Flyers

Put the dagger in on Wed. All the motivation you'd need in the world to complete the 2012 Embarrassment of The Pens was served up right there in Periods 1 & 3 yesterday. They need to come out with a workmanlike, all business Finish Them attitude and then go through the handshake with respect to the tradition, but without acknowledging the opponent's existence. Shake their hands, then move on. Not a word to them.