Imagine the conspiracy conversation on that, and the 20 year history in which the Flyers have been screwed by the League.
- MJL

it could be longer than 20 years, i only became a flyers fan that long ago. it could go back to the inception of the franchise for all i know.

i'm 32 but never had any kind of hockey influences until the flyers got lindros. that got my interest because unlike the phillies, sixers and eagles at the time atleast that team wanted to win. i've been hooked ever since. the end.

there was NO intent behind shaw's actions. he wasn't out of control he was skating hard, playing hockey not targetting a defenseless goalie. he couldn't stop he was skating too fast. i've seen that kind of play a million times and the first 999.999 times the goalie got out of the way or didn't take up the whole entire space.
- flyerscup2011

Intent or no intent, you can't do that. Randy Jones didn't intend to ram Bergeron into the boards head first either.

Asham is gonna have to pay $10 for every house on his properties and an extra $50 for every hotel.

Neal will be going directly to free parking (without passing go). Much to his chagrin, there's no money in it.

A goon is typically a player who is basically in the League because of his toughness and fighting ability. Neal being a goal scorer, and a 40 goal scorer at that. Eliminates him from the goon label.
- MJL

ok fine, elite goal scorer with goonish tendencies?

asham is. neal will soon be receiving his 2 suspension and 4th disciplinary action, to me that makes you a good especially considering he got away with attempted murder on petr prucha
- flyerscup2011

Neither Neal or Asham are goons. Playing dirty, or committing a suspendable offense doesn't make one a goon. Mark Messier was suspended 6 or 7 times. He was not a goon.

A goon is strictly somebody who is in the NHL for his fists. That doesn't apply to either Asham or especially Neal.

it could be longer than 20 years, i only became a flyers fan that long ago. it could go back to the inception of the franchise for all i know.

i'm 32 but never had any kind of hockey influences until the flyers got lindros. that got my interest because unlike the phillies, sixers and eagles at the time atleast that team wanted to win. i've been hooked ever since. the end.
- flyerscup2011

Oh absolutely. It goes all the way back to 67, when Lou Angotti was suspended by then NHL disciplinarian Fred Smith for a legal body check on Fred Stanfeild of the Bruins. The Bruins were clearly the darlings of the League back then similar to how the Pens are today.

Intent or no intent, you can't do that. Randy Jones didn't intend to ram Bergeron into the boards head first either.
- MJL

that's fair, but it was such a common type of play and normally the goalie isn't blocking the entire area behind the net. from what i saw shaw was trying to get out of the way, even jumped to do so. unfortunately he couldn't avoid smith. he did everything in his power to avoid a guy who quite frankly got in his way

Neither Neal or Asham are goons. Playing dirty, or committing a suspendable offense doesn't make one a goon. Mark Messier was suspended 6 or 7 times. He was not a goon.

A goon is strictly somebody who is in the NHL for his fists. That doesn't apply to either Asham or especially Neal.
- Jsaquella

those are good points. i think asham is one half speck of talent away from being purely a goon. he's just a little bit skilled. weird he was never such a cheap shot when he played here

Oh absolutely. It goes all the way back to 67, when Lou Angotti was suspended by then NHL disciplinarian Fred Smith for a legal body check on Fred Stanfeild of the Bruins. The Bruins were clearly the darlings of the League back then similar to how the Pens are today.
- MJL

see, i'm right

there was NO intent behind shaw's actions. he wasn't out of control he was skating hard, playing hockey not targetting a defenseless goalie. he couldn't stop he was skating too fast. i've seen that kind of play a million times and the first 999.999 times the goalie got out of the way or didn't take up the whole entire space.
- flyerscup2011

His intent does not matter. Not sure how much more plainly that can be stated. It does not matter. He hit the goalie in the head. Can't do that. For any reason. And for the record, 'skating too fast' = 'out of control'. At least in this context. The goalie is under no obligation to give the skater room to get around him, or to get out of his way. Personally, I think that's a flaw in the rule (one of many), but it's still the rule.

There is simply no way to excuse, mitigate, or otherwise remove Shaw from being subject to the rule. If you don't like the rule, that's another story. But Shaw was 100% wrong in what he did on that play, no matter what his intent was. And, again per the current rule, Smith did nothing wrong. Shaw was doomed to get suspended as soon as he touched Smith's head.

And with that, I'm done with this topic. I will now move on to asking for updates on Neal and Asham every 5 minutes like the rest of the thread.

those are good points. i think asham is one half speck of talent away from being purely a goon. he's just a little bit skilled. weird he was never such a cheap shot when he played here
- flyerscup2011

He didn't do anything as egregious as his hit on Schenn, but he definitely could play dirty. He's a solid 4th liner with toughness though, could score 10-15 goals in his prime.

His intent does not matter. Not sure how much more plainly that can be stated. It does not matter. He hit the goalie in the head. Can't do that. For any reason. And for the record, 'skating too fast' = 'out of control'. At least in this context. The goalie is under no obligation to give the skater room to get around him, or to get out of his way. Personally, I think that's a flaw in the rule (one of many), but it's still the rule.

There is simply no way to excuse, mitigate, or otherwise remove Shaw from being subject to the rule. If you don't like the rule, that's another story. But Shaw was 100% wrong in what he did on that play, no matter what his intent was. And, again per the current rule, Smith did nothing wrong. Shaw was doomed to get suspended as soon as he touched Smith's head.

And with that, I'm done with this topic. I will now move on to asking for updates on Neal and Asham every 5 minutes like the rest of the thread.

- BringBack25

well most of my arguments aren't necessarily based on what the rule book or precedent says. i follow the eye test rule. if it looks bad and intentional it is and vice versa. my eye test says shaw did nothing wrong.

He didn't do anything as egregious as his hit on Schenn, but he definitely could play dirty. He's a solid 4th liner with toughness though, could score 10-15 goals in his prime.
- Jsaquella

i remember he had a few particularly nice snipes for us. i even saw him do a few of them for the pens

well most of my arguments aren't necessarily based on what the rule book or precedent says. i follow the eye test rule. if it looks bad and intentional it is and vice versa. my eye test says shaw did nothing wrong.
- flyerscup2011

I agree. No reason to take the rule book into account.

If I'm the Flyers, Shelley is in the lineup on Wednesday in place of Rinaldo.
- MJL

What's crazy is, I was just thinking the same thing as I was heading to work this morning. Joe Vitale is a player that needs to be watched by the entire team and a player like Deryk Engelland matches up well against Shelley. I don't think the Pens antics aren't over.

Has any decision been made by Shanahan on Neal yet?

i just watched the asham play again. injury or not he deserves 25 games

I agree. No reason to take the rule book into account.
- MJL

imo the eye test is better for determining suspensions. rule book doesn't even apply during the games sometimes, it seems.

i just watched the asham play again. injury or not he deserves 25 games
- flyerscup2011

I was gonna go with 20, but 25 is good. And some community service.

imo the eye test is better for determining suspensions. rule book doesn't even apply during the games sometimes, it seems.
- flyerscup2011

I figured that. How can you know if the rule book applies if you don't know the rules?

I was gonna go with 20, but 25 is good. And some community service.
- MJL

How many did Boulerice get? Kesler wasn't injured....also wasn't playoffs.

I was gonna go with 20, but 25 is good. And some community service.
- MJL

Well wait a second, what type of community service are you thinking about?

How many did Boulerice get? Kesler wasn't injured.
- Jsaquella

I forget. But Boulerice was a Flyer. So the conspiracy against the Flyers is involved there

Well wait a second, what type of community service are you thinking about?
- ob18

Manscaping consultant at The Bald Patch in Miami Beach

Well wait a second, what type of community service are you thinking about?
- ob18

Not sure, any suggestions?

How many did Boulerice get? Kesler wasn't injured....also wasn't playoffs.
- Jsaquella

He got 25