We can only hope Burke is in such a desperate state of desperation, that he signs Cory Schneider to an offer sheet he can't refuse.Luongo excites me about as much as day old donuts.Offer him 27.5 over 5 years, 30 if it gets it done - stoned
For a goaltender that has never played more then 33 games in a season, are you nuts? The contract alone would be ridiculous, not to mention the picks we'd have to give up as compensation. Vesa Toskala was an awesome backup goalie as well.
Howard, first of all, let me say that you and I tend to be either in complete agreement or at complete odds over any article of yours I've ever read, with very little, if any, middle ground. This is one of those occasions where we are on the same page.
Lookit, everone. We're all well aware of the media circus here in Toronto, and Luongo's hassles in Vancouver are also well documented. I don't think it's a stretch at all to suggest that his problems are related to confidence, as a number of commenters have pointed out.
Of course, there will be those who claim that because BobbyLu has experienced some struggles in the Cup Finals he will therefore collapse under the microscope here in Toronto. I'd suggest that such a position is seriously lacking in the perspective department. As Mr. Berger properly pointed out, making the playoffs in Toronto does NOT compare to game 7 of the SCF, period, amen.
Now, I'm not declaring that bringing Luongo to town will trigger plans for a Yonge St. parade, but I don't think the idea should be dismissed over fears of his supposed fragile ego, either.
For me, what it comes down to is return on investment. Luongo's contract is a pig, yes, but in length, not annual stipend. He's drawing $5.33 million over the next 10 seasons. Have a gander at salaries for #1 goaltenders around the league - Bryzgalov ($5.66mil), Rinne ($7mil), Miller ($6.25mil), Kiprusoff ($5.83mil), Fleury ($5mil), Thomas ($5mil), Lundqvist ($6.88mil), Hiller ($4.5mil), Backstrom ($6mil) - and you'll quickly realize that Luongo's number is not at all out of line. Heck, even Brodeur is still making $5.2mil this season. In fact, one could argue that the length of Luongo's deal will make him a bargain in the long run, since that number won't continue to climb like subsequent deals for other #1 guys will. Yes, there are relative or outright bargains like Quick ($1.8mil), Price ($2.75mil), Niemi ($3.8mil), Howard ($2.25mil), Smith ($2mil), Halak ($3.75mil) or Pavelec ($1.15mil), but they're short-lived, as they'll be commanding much more on their next deals. Besides, no one of that calibre and that price range is available for the Buds to pick up at the moment.
Are there potential negatives to acquiring Luongo? Yes, as the quality of his play in 2022 will almost assuredly be worth less than what he'd be making at that point, but this ain't Columbus, friends, so the actual dollars spent aren't the problem, so long as the cap can be managed (remember Jeff Finger?).
The other potential problem is that, while things open up considerably for the Leafs under the cap in 2013/14, Burkie doesn't have a ton of wiggle room for this upcoming season. If you can't trade a big contract to make this work, then send another underperforming millionaire to the minors (*cough*Komisarek*cough*).
I'm not normally one for long-term deals, any more than Burke has declared himself to be. But I'm also not one for making hard-and-fast rules. Flexibility and thoughtful consideration should always be part of decision-making of this sort. This might just be the exception that proves the rule. A season ago, we never would have entertained this idea. But after watching Reimer play this year, are any of you really still confident enough to pass up an opportunity like this to make a significant upgrade to our goaltending? Whatever his personal playoff demons, Roberto Luongo is a very good goalie.
The real test will be in what the Canucks want back (who knows, maybe the cap relief itself will prove to be most of what Vancouver would hope for out of such a deal - wouldn't be the first time a team let a good player go just to make a salary dump, or do you really think Lebda is the equivalent to Franson?), but I say we at least have to give it some serious thought.
Are you going to tell me Kessel doesn't face as much pressure as Louongo?
I believe Kessel knows the pressure of Olympics, of rabid media, and of an insane fan base. He, unlike Louongo, was brought to this team billed by management as a saviour. Our future as a team was mortgaged to obtain the kid.
But no one knows Louongos pressure eh?
Remember last year when they were up in the Boston series and Lou almost had a meltdown because no one was pumping his tires?
Totally handled that pressure well.
Louongo is a nut job. He would be eaten alive by the media.
Especially by guys like you. - IronMaidnick
I've lived in both Vancouver and Toronto - the pressure is about the same.
And for the record, Louongo was trying to make a joke about "pumping tires" - he wasn't having a "meltdown". The joke failed and his words were taken out of context.
But, yeah, he did have a meltdown on the ice - but if you think the pressure would be higher in Toronto than it was in the SCF in Vancouver you really don't know what its like outside TO.
"If anything, Luongo may have limited desire – at age 33 – to defer his contract privilege for a trade to a bottom-feeder"
This comment is funny Howard. You honestly seem to think Luongo will be some hot trade commodity. No one will want his contract. Who wants to give up any assets for a soon-to-be 34 year-old goalie who's lost his starting job and has 10 years left on his contract?
You think Luongo can pick and choose where he goes? Sure, he has a NTC, but there has to be multiple teams interested-And there won't be. He's worthless due to his contract.
The Toronto media is funny how they overrate the value of other team's players. Phil Kessel is worthless but an older, much more expensive and less productive Rick Nasdh is someone the Leafs need to give up Gardiner, Kadri 2 firsts for.
The Canucks are screwed right now. They desperately want to keep Schneider and ditch Luongo, but they have to find a sucker to do that.
Come on Howie, you have an opinion just the same as the rest of us. Just so happens that Luongo hasn't proven anything to me.
He's proven that he's good enough to take a good team to the Stanley Cup Finals once and not win. You know who else has done that? Michael Leighton. Ray Emery. Dwayne Roloson. All that a single trip to the SCF's proves is that even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.
So he won an Olympic gold medal? Sure, he did...barely. And they didn't have enough confidence in the guy coming into the Olympics to start him in his home arena, and instead went to an aging Martin Brodeur when it became apparent that he couldn't compete at that level.
Team Canada won that gold medal IN SPITE OF Luongo, and Thornton and Heatley for that matter. That team should have won those games for 4 or 5 more goals than they did. They squeaked in, they squeaked by, but Luongo was not a major player.
If he comes to Toronto, he's an upgrade. But he'll struggle, perhaps not all the time, but he'll struggle, just the same as he's struggled in Vancouver from time to time. The national media (as in Toronto media) constantly doubts that he should be starting in Vancouver, this isn't new. This has been going on for a couple of years. So what's gonna change with you and your cronies if/when Luongo comes to Toronto. You already cut the guy to ribbons every time he plays poorly, what are you gonna do when he plays for your own team. Your highs will be higher, your lows will be lower, and make no mistake about it, Roberto Luongo is not a goaltender who handles lows well at all. You'll get down on him, he'll get down on himself, and you'll get further down on him, and the cycle continues. You cannibalize your own players on a nightly basis for not being good enough, and there's definitely some truth to that, but pro athletes are still people, and opening up a newspaper or turning on the radio to hear people doubting your abilities at the only thing you've ever done well in your life is enough to break down even the most confident athlete, and Luongo's confidence has all the tensile strength of a Faberge egg.
You can hope you'll get him, and maybe Burke will do it. But make no mistake. You, and the hundreds of others just like you, will be killing this guy during his first losing streak, and he'll NEVER be the guy you want him to be for specifically that reason. Want to know part of the reason why the Leafs can't get it together? It's the pressure that you guys put on them in the public eye every stinking day of their lives. Until you guys learn to focus on the positives, instead of killing your captain or your young goaltenders or whoever committed an egregious turnover the previous night, your team is going to struggle just to get to the black ink. Go ahead and trade for Luongo, but you better hope that you've got more coming than him, because if you don't, all you'll have next year is a non-playoff team with a higher payroll and the perception that your heightened expectations were in any way justified. - the_terror
My goodness, someone who may hate the Leaf media as much as I do. I think the Leaf media has been an incredibly destructive force in influencing the decisions being made at MLSE on the acquisition of players.
However, I think you are being a bit unfair in lumping Howard into this group. Howard has been well ahead of the curve in challenging the savior mentality of MLSE. He clearly set out a long time ago that the Leafs were getting in trouble because of the pathway they had chosen to follow.
Many Leaf fans on this site want to still buy into the belief that the Leaf are just one great signing away from being a playoff contender next year. I think that is nonsense, except if that one great signing was a superb goaltender.
Overall, I agree with everything else that you say. In particular, we can be fairly certain that Luongo is Florida bound. Tampa is the likely destination but don't entirely discount the Panthers. Both teams have the picks and prospects that makes a deal fairly easy to accomplish.
Luongo's contract is not that bad as it was heavily front end loaded. The cap hit is manageable and, most important, if he retires the cap hit goes away immediately.
Odd you would mention 3 goalies who have won more playoff games this post season than him.
And isnt that what counts? - IronMaidnick
Spoken like a man who has no idea what he's talking about. Hockey is a team game and Luongo's biggest problem these past 2 playoffs is playing for a team that simply doesn't show up for big games. If you would honestly rather have Jose freakin Theodore playing goal for you, I honestly hope you get your wish. Except then I'll have to spend the next season listening to you damn self absorbed Leaf fans whinging about your goaltending troubles .
Luongo seems to be the Nickelback of goaltenders - people just love to hate this guy. However, the last thing you could fairly call a "choke" on Luongo's part would be conceding the tying goal in the Gold medal match, and that is disputable. It amazes me that people who claim to understand hockey and not be giant dumbasses blame Luongo for the Nucks not hoisting last year's Cup. They scored 8 goals against the Bruins in 7 games, yet somehow managed 3 wins. Of course no credit is due the goaltender - it's Luongo!
Anyways, with all that said, I don't recommend him for the Leafs... because the Leafs can't handle the pressure of having a goaltender that 40% of the hockey world wants to see fail every night for no better reason than to indulge their schadenfreud.
Location: Please don't mock me merciless, ON Joined: 10.15.2011
Apr 21 @ 9:48 AM ET
Spoken like a man who has no idea what he's talking about. Hockey is a team game and Luongo's biggest problem these past 2 playoffs is playing for a team that simply doesn't show up for big games. If you would honestly rather have Jose freakin Theodore playing goal for you, I honestly hope you get your wish. Except then I'll have to spend the next season listening to you damn self absorbed Leaf fans whinging about your goaltending troubles .
Luongo seems to be the Nickelback of goaltenders - people just love to hate this guy. However, the last thing you could fairly call a "choke" on Luongo's part would be conceding the tying goal in the Gold medal match, and that is disputable. It amazes me that people who claim to understand hockey and not be giant dumbasses blame Luongo for the Nucks not hoisting last year's Cup. They scored 8 goals against the Bruins in 7 games, yet somehow managed 3 wins. Of course no credit is due the goaltender - it's Luongo!
Anyways, with all that said, I don't recommend him for the Leafs... because the Leafs can't handle the pressure of having a goaltender that 40% of the hockey world wants to see fail every night for no better reason than to indulge their schadenfreud. - thefullnelson
Mr. President:
I'm grateful (and a little surprised) that a Maple Leaf fan is backing Lu as strongly as you are. Good for you. He is a good goalie. But I think you are a bit misguided in regards to his value to the Canucks. The Canuck players have lost faith in Lu. You can see it when Lu let's in one of his softies. At least one per game. It demoralizes the players. I've never seen a group react that way. When Schnieds goes in net there's a different look to the team. The players seem like they want to play harder for him. The defensemen definitely play different in front of Schnieds. More confident, more aggressive.
Most players have a time limit with a team, an expiry date so to speak. Lu's time has come with Canucks. We need his cap hit to get us some scoring help. When Lu leaves it will be addition by subtraction. - bloatedmosquito
Because of Lou's contract, you will not get a positive return. Think moving him for someone with a shorter, but still stinky contract. Don't expect to get a fair value for his talent.
Also, RE:winning gold in spite of the starting goaltender? Brodeur being given first start because Luongo is terrible? Canada should win medal matches by 4 or 5 goals?
Are you listening to yourselves?
We can only hope Burke is in such a desperate state of desperation, that he signs Cory Schneider to an offer sheet he can't refuse.Luongo excites me about as much as day old donuts.Offer him 27.5 over 5 years, 30 if it gets it done - stoned
I'd take Schneider over Luongo as well (Schneider is unproven but he's not a lightning rod for every jerk, troll and nasty, meanspirited comment on Earth). However, any offer sheet the Nucks can't match will cost you in draft picks (I had to be reminded about this earlier).
>6,539,062=4 #1 draft picks. Do you really think the Nucks would lose him for failing to match anything less? I disagree with the Nucks all the time - but no NHL franchise is that stupid. I'd trade Schneider for 4 #1 picks and laugh all the way to the bank, especially knowing I had Eddie Lack ~3 years behind Schneider in development.
The question though, is would you actually trade 4 #1 picks for the chance to give an unproven starter Cup-winner-money?
Location: not the BigSmoke anymore Joined: 10.29.2007
Apr 21 @ 10:36 AM ET
And let's talk pressure Berger.
Are you going to tell me Kessel doesn't face as much pressure as Louongo?
I believe Kessel knows the pressure of Olympics, of rabid media, and of an insane fan base. He, unlike Louongo, was brought to this team billed by management as a saviour. Our future as a team was mortgaged to obtain the kid.
But no one knows Louongos pressure eh?
Remember last year when they were up in the Boston series and Lou almost had a meltdown because no one was pumping his tires?
Totally handled that pressure well.
Louongo is a nut job. He would be eaten alive by the media.
Especially by guys like you. - IronMaidnick
Don't bother responding to Berger. Have you noticed, that he's been "writing(?)" more recently. This is vintage Berger, you know trying to provoke a reaction about a possible player move out of the less sophisticated within Leaf Nation.
Pressure, Howard, in Toronto comes in a different form than any place else - with the exception of Montreal. Constant media attention is the differentiator. Pressure comes from doinks in the media looking for a scheme or hidden story in anything and everything. Just rewind the clock to Kessel's comment that went something like "its not working here"... which probably spawned twenty five overblown stupid articles.
Whereas in the hockey universe does the media reach out the 22 year old rookie goalie's mother in rural Manitoba for a story?
This - like the Luongo "article" is another.
I guess the sting of losing the previous job is fading... good old Howard is back - writing about the fan base - not the hockey team.
Location: not the BigSmoke anymore Joined: 10.29.2007
Apr 21 @ 10:42 AM ET
Alright.
Howard, first of all, let me say that you and I tend to be either in complete agreement or at complete odds over any article of yours I've ever read, with very little, if any, middle ground. This is one of those occasions where we are on the same page.
Lookit, everone. We're all well aware of the media circus here in Toronto, and Luongo's hassles in Vancouver are also well documented. I don't think it's a stretch at all to suggest that his problems are related to confidence, as a number of commenters have pointed out.
Of course, there will be those who claim that because BobbyLu has experienced some struggles in the Cup Finals he will therefore collapse under the microscope here in Toronto. I'd suggest that such a position is seriously lacking in the perspective department. As Mr. Berger properly pointed out, making the playoffs in Toronto does NOT compare to game 7 of the SCF, period, amen.
Now, I'm not declaring that bringing Luongo to town will trigger plans for a Yonge St. parade, but I don't think the idea should be dismissed over fears of his supposed fragile ego, either.
For me, what it comes down to is return on investment. Luongo's contract is a pig, yes, but in length, not annual stipend. He's drawing $5.33 million over the next 10 seasons. Have a gander at salaries for #1 goaltenders around the league - Bryzgalov ($5.66mil), Rinne ($7mil), Miller ($6.25mil), Kiprusoff ($5.83mil), Fleury ($5mil), Thomas ($5mil), Lundqvist ($6.88mil), Hiller ($4.5mil), Backstrom ($6mil) - and you'll quickly realize that Luongo's number is not at all out of line. Heck, even Brodeur is still making $5.2mil this season. In fact, one could argue that the length of Luongo's deal will make him a bargain in the long run, since that number won't continue to climb like subsequent deals for other #1 guys will. Yes, there are relative or outright bargains like Quick ($1.8mil), Price ($2.75mil), Niemi ($3.8mil), Howard ($2.25mil), Smith ($2mil), Halak ($3.75mil) or Pavelec ($1.15mil), but they're short-lived, as they'll be commanding much more on their next deals. Besides, no one of that calibre and that price range is available for the Buds to pick up at the moment.
Are there potential negatives to acquiring Luongo? Yes, as the quality of his play in 2022 will almost assuredly be worth less than what he'd be making at that point, but this ain't Columbus, friends, so the actual dollars spent aren't the problem, so long as the cap can be managed (remember Jeff Finger?).
The other potential problem is that, while things open up considerably for the Leafs under the cap in 2013/14, Burkie doesn't have a ton of wiggle room for this upcoming season. If you can't trade a big contract to make this work, then send another underperforming millionaire to the minors (*cough*Komisarek*cough*).
I'm not normally one for long-term deals, any more than Burke has declared himself to be. But I'm also not one for making hard-and-fast rules. Flexibility and thoughtful consideration should always be part of decision-making of this sort. This might just be the exception that proves the rule. A season ago, we never would have entertained this idea. But after watching Reimer play this year, are any of you really still confident enough to pass up an opportunity like this to make a significant upgrade to our goaltending? Whatever his personal playoff demons, Roberto Luongo is a very good goalie.
The real test will be in what the Canucks want back (who knows, maybe the cap relief itself will prove to be most of what Vancouver would hope for out of such a deal - wouldn't be the first time a team let a good player go just to make a salary dump, or do you really think Lebda is the equivalent to Franson?), but I say we at least have to give it some serious thought. - Xalvion
I agree with everything you said after the first two paragraphs. Luongo would be decent financial option, but that is only going to be possible if Burke somehow frees himself of Komisarek, Connelly and Lombardi's contracts. Without those gone it is simply a non-starter period.
The stuff of Berger is offbase. He is one again simply baiting "Leafs nation" so he has more material for another lame blog.
Location: not the BigSmoke anymore Joined: 10.29.2007
Apr 21 @ 10:44 AM ET
Gee Wizz Howard
My opposition to "Lui" playing for the Leafs was based on performance and contract.Not the "pressure" of playing in Toronto.I did point out that Canada won the Gold "in spite of him, not because of him" though.I do have my doubts about "Lui" in pressure games, be it in Peoria or Toronto - stoned
Exactly.
But this direct response in such straightforward and clear wording doesn't leave room for Mr Berger to re-interpret what you mean.
Location: A van down by the river Joined: 02.22.2008
Apr 21 @ 12:44 PM ET
I'd take Schneider over Luongo as well (Schneider is unproven but he's not a lightning rod for every jerk, troll and nasty, meanspirited comment on Earth). However, any offer sheet the Nucks can't match will cost you in draft picks (I had to be reminded about this earlier).
>6,539,062=4 #1 draft picks. Do you really think the Nucks would lose him for failing to match anything less? I disagree with the Nucks all the time - but no NHL franchise is that stupid. I'd trade Schneider for 4 #1 picks and laugh all the way to the bank, especially knowing I had Eddie Lack ~3 years behind Schneider in development.
The question though, is would you actually trade 4 #1 picks for the chance to give an unproven starter Cup-winner-money? - thefullnelson
I wasn't aware that it would cost 4 #1's in that scenario.If so, of course he's not worth it.
The stuff of Berger is offbase. He is once again simply baiting "Leafs nation" so he has more material for another lame blog. - BorjeFan4Ever
Hey, to tell you the truth, I'd agree with your assessment of Berger's writing, 9 times out of 10. Far more often than not, I find his stuff to be worthy of that facial expression that most of us reserve for our most annoying relatives.
I feel the same way about a number of other writers in this market, as well, and I've written my share of scathing rebuttals to many of their nonsensical and self-serving "articles". Simmons is by far the worst, but certainly not the only culprit when it comes to this sort of thing.
On the other hand, I find Mark Ritter to be one of the few breaths of fresh air in an otherwise sorry literary lineup. It's nice to read articles that aren't laced with self-importance, and I generally find his thoughts to be worthwhile.
Having said that, though, I try not to pre-judge any article based simply on the name attached to it and, to be fair to Berger, there is the odd article of his with which I agree.
I wasn't aware that it would cost 4 #1's in that scenario.If so, of course he's not worth it. - stoned
lol I was whinging something fierce about people making offer sheets to the Oilers soontobeUFAs and someone pointed it out to me... settled me down nicely
