Since it is the players that have the most to lose.
- victorymc98

Since they have a limited "life" on the ice (grass, hardcourt, astroturf), you are correct - which is also why they generally lose.

That is happening to me as we speak. Unions are a necessary (sadly) evil, nothing more, nothing less.

And now I'm done too.
- Ogilthorpe2

Unions are definetly are not what they used to be.

That's all I'm going to say.

I still think Hockey IMO..is safer than Football.
- victorymc98

As long as youth hockey players note - and abide by - the STOP sign on the backs of uniforms, etc.

Question is how many? Us here at this site? Yes... The vast majority who go to the games to dance to Chelsea Dagger? Likely not. In fact I'm willing to bet that not only is there 90-100% STH renewal, the wait list won't shrink much and they'll again play to 109% capacity in 12-13.
- blackhawk24

Long term though I think they understand that this will not work and when you are a top level executive for any organization your concern is always long term. From everything I've read and from some of the people I've talked to they all understand that winning is the number 1 ingredient for success. Now whether Stan has the capacity to make the right moves is another story but I dont get the feeling that the direction they are going in is one of, just sit on your hands because the turnstiles will keep turning.

I guess in the presser Keith mentioned he had Elbow surgery last summer...

JJ, any insight on what the uppers or lowers think of the job Stan-blows-man (sry I can't help myself) is doing, has done???? To say he's failed isn't cracking the atom here but maybe they see this as growing pains....I dunno????

Not sure so much about sports unions, but in general because they are inherently corrupt, drive production down and prices up, and try to put non-union competition out of business with their thuggish tactics.
- Ogilthorpe2

Listening to Fox news channel? How has big Businesses (Wal-mart) helped the economy who refuses to hire union help. Drive prices down, forcing local competition out of business then raise prices when nobody is left.

As corrupt as the Wall Street "thugs" who do it with journal entries and electronic weapons? Why some of those "goons" aren't in jail is a mystery to me.

Or how about companies that use the bankruptcy courts to void labor contracts - BINDING CONTRACTS - and then pay supposedly contractually obligated bonuses to management, or, worse, so-called retention bonuses to the same management that got them into trouble in the first place?

OK - this is a hockey board - I'm through.
- StLBravesFan

the most corrupt and the root of all americas problems can be found at the feet of our elected political class. the politicians set up the systems based on who contributes the most to their coffers. they incourage gaming the system for their own benefit

as hockey goes and listening to stan speak i think the hawks only chance to be competitive next year is one of the following
1. increase the size of all nhl rinks to olympic
2. move to a european league with their smerfs lineup
3. require every player take steriods in the off season to gain a minimum of 20 pounds

stan it sounded like to me will try to sign oduya and continue to field an undersize lineup
to bad since kane migh be a good center if he had two big bad a$$ wingers playing with him

I still think Hockey IMO..is safer than Football.
- victorymc98

I have 3 boys. And won't let them play football. A head collision is near guaranteed every play for most players. No thanks...

Since they have a limited "life" on the ice (grass, hardcourt, astroturf), you are correct - which is also why they generally lose.
- StLBravesFan

I almost always on the players side. This might get ripped here but I am against a salary cap, as it only benefits the owners.

Listening to Fox news channel? How has big Businesses (Wal-mart) helped the economy who refuses to hire union help. Drive prices down, forcing local competition out of business then raise prices when nobody is left.
- roenick

Listening to Fox news channel? How has big Businesses (Wal-mart) helped the economy who refuses to hire union help. Drive prices down, forcing local competition out of business then raise prices when nobody is left.
- roenick

its called the free market and that is what has given america the highest standard of living
wal mart also provides a low cost service and if they increas prices someone else will open a business to compete except wal mart would then try to get our politicians to not allow other companies to enter the market

I will remember that, in addition to union intransigence, it will likely be the owners that declare a lock-out and cancellation of games (seasons?)

It takes two to tango, for goodness sake - ownership is no more altruistic about hockey - or baseball, basketball, Wall Street companies, auto companies - than labor is.

Each is trying to maximize the return to its constituents - why is that OK for management but not OK for labor?
- StLBravesFan

Folks who labor? OK. Labor union reps? Not so much.

To correlate: Teachers? OK. Teachers unions? No so much.

Fehr cares only about himself. He could give a !@#$%^&*() about anyone else.

Owners have much more to lose since they've invested so much more.

I almost always on the players side. This might get ripped here but I am against a salary cap, as it only benefits the owners.
- victorymc98

this i agree with

Question is how many? Us here at this site? Yes... The vast majority who go to the games to dance to Chelsea Dagger? Likely not. In fact I'm willing to bet that not only is there 90-100% STH renewal, the wait list won't shrink much and they'll again play to 109% capacity in 12-13.
- blackhawk24

Don't know the the "vast majority who go to the games" go to dance to Chelsea Dagger: my guess is most in the stands are die-hard long-term Hawk fans.

It's the suites / sky boxes that should be the biggest worry: don't know when they all come up for renewal, but losing corporate consumers of the sky boxes would be a major blow.

I have 3 boys. And won't let them play football. A head collision is near guaranteed every play for most players. No thanks...
- ilinkhawk

I think it is called DTE, heard about it from teh B&B show on the score.. I don't have kids yet, but my soon to be wife get in debates about this.. she doesn't see the harm cause her brothers played.

I almost always on the players side. This might get ripped here but I am against a salary cap, as it only benefits the owners.
- victorymc98

I would agree with a salary cap IF there is a "ticket price cap" that goes along with it.

Totally agree on both points. Personally, the only player I would consider an untouchable however is #19, and maybe a healthy #81, and then maybe #7.

If a great, transformative offer came for Kane, Sharp, Keith, Leddy, you have to at least look at them.
- John Jaeckel

Actually Kane grew alot on me this year, I thought his overall effort level was the highest it has been since he came to Chicago. He made a real effort to fill the hole at #2 center. I think the kid really wants to win and he brings certain skills that are hard to find.

The problem is where to play him - he gets shut down in the playoffs because of his siize and perimeter play doesn't work postseason.

Would I trade him - yes, but it has to be a deal that really helps the hockey club.

its called the free market and that is what has given america the highest standard of living
wal mart also provides a low cost service and if they increas prices someone else will open a business to compete except wal mart would then try to get our politicians to not allow other companies to enter the market
- molly2522

We don't live in a free market society...

I would agree with a salary cap IF there is a "ticket price cap" that goes along with it.
- StLBravesFan

Exactly

Listening to Fox news channel? How has big Businesses (Wal-mart) helped the economy who refuses to hire union help. Drive prices down, forcing local competition out of business then raise prices when nobody is left.
- roenick

Free market enterprise? Those who control their cost structure do the best. Those who cave into unions struggle. Of course the split between private and public is the biggest strain. Private? They go out of biz unless they get bailed out by a Gov't. Public? Just increase the tax base. That's a primary reason why we have $16.3T in debt.

Hockey is no different. If the owners can't control their cost structure, they struggle. Those who spend foolishly, lose ... in more ways than one.

Folks who labor? OK. Labor union reps? Not so much.

To correlate: Teachers? OK. Teachers unions? No so much.

Fehr cares only about himself. He could give a !@#$%^&*() about anyone else.

Owners have much more to lose since they've invested so much more.
- blackhawk24

Are you serious? How many concussions has Rocky has? How many owners have died because of continuing head injuries? How long is an owner"s potential career compared to a player's - and what are the chances that an owner's career is cut short by injury?

Players have their LIVES invested.

Seems to me they deserve what they can get out of the system.

We don't live in a free market society...
- victorymc98

and that is why our standard of living continues to go down

keep growing government and we will soon be greece

I loved how Kane didn't hestitate. 'Net front presence...Brouwer, Kopecky, Buff'
- eburgio

Why was Bickell, Shaw, Mayers, Hayes not at least tried in those roles though? Never understand having four skilled forwards on one PP unit and no front presence. The players recognize part of the problem, but yet the coaches and front office don't?

Actually Kane grew alot on me this year, I thought his overall effort level was the highest it has been since he came to Chicago. He made a real effort to fill the hole at #2 center. I think the kid really wants to win and he brings certain skills that are hard to find.

The problem is where to play him - he gets shut down in the playoffs because of his siize and perimeter play doesn't work postseason.

Would I trade him - yes, but it has to be a deal that really helps the hockey club.
- RickJ

Agreed with every word