So will it be interational sized ice or regular NHl size like the lat Olympics. Because Lucic would not be a wise choice on the big ice.
- RogerRoeper

big ice

Russian Hockey Tipped As 2014 Olympic Favorite
7/25/2013 7:30 PM ET

Russia is tipped to win the gold medal in men's ice hockey at the 2014 Winter Olympics, according to the odds-makers.

Though the Russian Olympic team lineup - or any other country's Olympic team lineup, for that matter — has yet to be announced, the national team's odds are set at 11-5 by odds-makers Bovada.

The team likely will boast such National Hockey League firepower as Alex Ovechkin, Pavel Datsyuk and Evgeni Malkin, among others.

Odds for other teams stand at 9-4 (Canada), 4-1 (Sweden), 6-1 (USA), 17-2 (Czech Republic), Finland (10-1), Switzerland (20-1), Slovakia (25-1) and Norway (200-1). Austria and Slovenia both netted 900-1 odds of winning.

The games will be held in Sochi, Russia in February. Canada won the gold medal in 2010 when the games were hosted in Vancouver.

by RTT Staff Writer
http://www.rttnews.com/21...ogle&utm_campaign=sitemap
- Doppleganger

I could put some money on USA at 6-1 odds, they could easily win with Solid G'tendin

Canada will have the best team. They'll be the favourite based on that. All the top teams will be comprised of a majority of players in the NHL, which are mostly accustomed these days to playing on NHL ice surfaces.
- prock

At this point we don't even know what the Olympic hockey teams are going to look like for the Game in Sochi this upcoming February but when has that ever stopped the odds-makers from setting lines?


Russia labeled 11-5 favorite to win hockey gold in 2014 Olympics
By Brian Stubits | Hockey writer
July 25, 2013 10:12 am ET
Not long after the NHL announced it was going to let its players participate in the Olympics and then the countries released their invite list to orientation camps, Bovada put the odds on who the favorites are to win the gold medal.

Considering the Games are in Russia, the Russians are atop the list, not the talent-laden Canadians, who won gold in 2010.

Russia 11-5
Canada 9-4
Sweden 4-1
USA 6-1
Czech Republic 17-2
Finland 10-1
Switzerland 20-1
Slovakia 25-1
Norway 200-1
Latvia 400-1
Austria 900-1
Slovenia 900-1

All you have to do is look at the track record of teams in the Olympics and where the Games are to understand why Canada is not the favourite. They won gold on home ice in 2010, didn't even medal in Italy in 2006, won gold not far from home in Salt Lake City for the 2002 Games and failed to medal in Japan back in 1998. As you can tell, not quite the same results outside of North America.

The Americans come in fourth, ostensibly meaning they are not expected to medal but the reigning Silver medalists aren't far back in terms of the odds. Finland being at 10-1 seems a bit low considering the Finns have medaled in three of the past four Games.

http://www.cbssports.com/...key-gold-in-2014-olympics




I hate to say I told you so.......................

so don't you think with a younger, more dynamic team than in any previous tournament on international ice surface that canada is going to be considered the favorite? their depth of talent is unparalleled by any other country.
- sens rock

Neither I or the "Odds makers" are considering the Canadians "the Favourite".

Russian Hockey Tipped As 2014 Olympic Favorite
7/25/2013 7:30 PM ET

Russia is tipped to win the gold medal in men's ice hockey at the 2014 Winter Olympics, according to the odds-makers.

Though the Russian Olympic team lineup - or any other country's Olympic team lineup, for that matter — has yet to be announced, the national team's odds are set at 11-5 by odds-makers Bovada.

The team likely will boast such National Hockey League firepower as Alex Ovechkin, Pavel Datsyuk and Evgeni Malkin, among others.

Odds for other teams stand at 9-4 (Canada), 4-1 (Sweden), 6-1 (USA), 17-2 (Czech Republic), Finland (10-1), Switzerland (20-1), Slovakia (25-1) and Norway (200-1). Austria and Slovenia both netted 900-1 odds of winning.

The games will be held in Sochi, Russia in February. Canada won the gold medal in 2010 when the games were hosted in Vancouver.

by RTT Staff Writer
http://www.rttnews.com/21...ogle&utm_campaign=sitemap
- Doppleganger

this isn't about what oddsmakers say. I never argued that the oddsmakers don't take other factors into account. but im not much of a vegas better, so its fairly irrelevant to me.
no one ever argued that the big ice isn't a factor in their decision.
I will say our failing to medal in nagano is a bit overblown as we dominated the czechs and ran into a wall in hasek, then kinda didn't even show up for the disappointing bronze medal game.
but turin was certainly a disaster.

This entire conversation started by u retorting to my canadian juggernaut comment with;
' the only juggernaut team will be the home team'.
which is absolutely Laughable.

Canadians still have the best team on paper by far without a doubt.
more depth than any other nation by a huge margin. in fact, the states are the only ones with comparable depth. and Sweden has a much better defence and goaltending than the Russians, so id put them ahead too.

the Russians are gonna have guys from the khl in their bottom 6 and bottom pairings. we're gonna be leaving OFF nhl all stars.

the oddsmakers are certainly taking any minutiae into account with home ice, ice size and one of the best teams. and a combo of the 3 would make sense that Russian gets their nod. and it also makes sense that a team that has failed to medal in both Olympics on the big ice and struggled at the world championships as of late, still gets a close second in odds....because they have the best roster.
as far as just the team, Canada is by far the best and deepest.

if I had to pick;
Canada
usa
Sweden
russia

this isn't about what oddsmakers say. I never argued that the oddsmakers don't take other factors into account. but im not much of a vegas better, so its fairly irrelevant to me.
no one ever argued that the big ice isn't a factor in their decision.
I will say our failing to medal in nagano is a bit overblown as we dominated the czechs and ran into a wall in hasek, then kinda didn't even show up for the disappointing bronze medal game.
but turin was certainly a disaster.

This entire conversation started by u retorting to my canadian juggernaut comment with;
' the only juggernaut team will be the home team'.
which is absolutely Laughable.

Canadians still have the best team on paper by far without a doubt.
more depth than any other nation by a huge margin. in fact, the states are the only ones with comparable depth. and Sweden has a much better defence and goaltending than the Russians, so id put them ahead too.

the Russians are gonna have guys from the khl in their bottom 6 and bottom pairings. we're gonna be leaving OFF nhl all stars.

the oddsmakers are certainly taking any minutiae into account with home ice, ice size and one of the best teams. and a combo of the 3 would make sense that Russian gets their nod. and it also makes sense that a team that has failed to medal in both Olympics on the big ice and struggled at the world championships as of late, still gets a close second in odds....because they have the best roster.
as far as just the team, Canada is by far the best and deepest.

if I had to pick;
Canada
usa
Sweden
russia
- hugefemale dog77

Yes, your assertion that Canada will be a Juggernaut, suggested it would be a cake walk from them in 2014, and they need fear no other team.

Anyway, i have no worries with price between the pipes for the juggernaut canada'll be.
- hugefemale dog77

Well Canada was NOT a Juggernaut in the 2010 Olympics, needing overtime to win, so I took issue with your charaterization of the upcoming tournament.

Perhaps you'll agree that NO team will be a Juggernaut, and will have an edge. playing at home, just as Canada had one in Vancouver.


Russia is the favourite for a lot of reasons. Patriotism played a big part in Canada's gold, when playing in front of the home fans, and this will now be in favour of the Russians.

Russians have grown up playing on International sized ice surfaces, and with International rules.

Russians have much more experience with International refereeing, knowing what not to do, and what they can get away with.

It looks like you're not expecting the Russians to even medal, and I would take that bet, as they are clearly the favourites and should at least medal.

No team is a true juggernaut coming in, every team has question marks.

Canada has such a glut of talent to choose from that so long as the powers that be are cognizant of what playing on bigger ice demands of a team's skillset, they should have no problem putting up the best collection of skaters in the world.

In goal, there are certainly some question marks. I have no idea what coaching will be like in terms of team philosophy, but picking a team best suited for international ice will go a long way to informing and cultivating that philosophy.

This reminds me of the 2011 NLDS (bear with me). The Philadelphia Phillies, the best team in baseball by 5 games were generally considered as having an unmatchable rotation 1 through 5. But they met St Louis in the first round, a best of five series. Despite the fact that St Louis had a less deep squad, they had three pitchers that could certainly go toe to toe with Philly's best three. In a longer series, the phillies would certainly have won, but St Louis despite having less depth rose to the occasion in a shorter series.

Canada has about 40 players that could make probably any other country's olympic team. And a canadian squad in a 7-game series would wear down most any other squad. But since we're talking about 22 guys and single elimination, their depth will only count if they select the right men for the job.

In other words, Canada can be the most talented and also not the favourite.

Yes, your assertion that Canada will be a Juggernaut, suggested it would be a cake walk from them in 2014, and they need fear no other team.




Well Canada was NOT a Juggernaut in the 2010 Olympics, needing overtime to win, so I took issue with your charaterization of the upcoming tournament.

Perhaps you'll agree that NO team will be a Juggernaut, and will have an edge. playing at home, just as Canada had one in Vancouver.


Russia is the favourite for a lot of reasons. Patriotism played a big part in Canada's gold, when playing in front of the home fans, and this will now be in favour of the Russians.

Russians have grown up playing on International sized ice surfaces, and with International rules.

Russians have much more experience with International refereeing, knowing what not to do, and what they can get away with.

It looks like you're not expecting the Russians to even medal, and I would take that bet, as they are clearly the favourites and should at least medal.
- Doppleganger

it's right from my post you quoted to start the conversation!
" I never said Canada has no chance of losing., they wouldn't bother playing if it was all academic. it would be pretty foolish to underestimate any of Russia, Sweden, usa, Czechs etc"

so I guess we'll just throw out the first stanza of your post.


Russia has the 4th best team on paper imo. but I think they've been bumped up as theyre at home.
I wouldn't surprised if they medal, theyre a great team. and at home.

I just find it funny you're still arguing that a team that might have such names on their roster as ilya nikulin, yevgeny Medvedev and denis kokarev as the clear favourites against a team that might match those spots with taylor hall, jay bouwmeester and ryan getzlaf for example. or 20 other names every bit as good.
or maybe you just think their top tier of the malkins etc are just too much for the Canadians?
after all, all we have is Crosby, stamkos, Giroux, Tavares etc etc..

wtf are we even arguing?
the Russians have a lot of the intangibles that are gonna make them tough to beat.
while the canadians have the best and deepest roster in the tournament. Which is also gonna make the very hard to beat.

now we'll just wait and see how it all plays out.
go canada

No team is a true juggernaut coming in, every team has question marks.

Canada has such a glut of talent to choose from that so long as the powers that be are cognizant of what playing on bigger ice demands of a team's skillset, they should have no problem putting up the best collection of skaters in the world.

In goal, there are certainly some question marks. I have no idea what coaching will be like in terms of team philosophy, but picking a team best suited for international ice will go a long way to informing and cultivating that philosophy.

This reminds me of the 2011 NLDS (bear with me). The Philadelphia Phillies, the best team in baseball by 5 games were generally considered as having an unmatchable rotation 1 through 5. But they met St Louis in the first round, a best of five series. Despite the fact that St Louis had a less deep squad, they had three pitchers that could certainly go toe to toe with Philly's best three. In a longer series, the phillies would certainly have won, but St Louis despite having less depth rose to the occasion in a shorter series.

Canada has about 40 players that could make probably any other country's olympic team. And a canadian squad in a 7-game series would wear down most any other squad. But since we're talking about 22 guys and single elimination, their depth will only count if they select the right men for the job.

In other words, Canada can be the most talented and also not the favourite.
- Morris

My point exactly, when you take into account the unfamiliar ice surface, international rules & refereeing, the Russians having "Home ice advantage" for every game, every other team "stepping it up" when playing the defending gold medallists.

My point exactly, when you take into account the unfamiliar ice surface, international rules & refereeing, the Russians having "Home ice advantage" for every game, every other team "stepping it up" when playing the defending gold medallists.
- Doppleganger

That being said, Canada has all the depth needed to pick a team that in terms of on-ice quality could easily be the favourites. If they pick a team of forwards that skate well and avoid the costly penalties that can come with too much grit, defenders that adjust to the larger width well and goaltenders that track off-angle shots well I don't see the intangibles mattering too too much.

In short, I'll reserve my judgement until we narrow the squad down.

That being said, Canada has all the depth needed to pick a team that in terms of on-ice quality could easily be the favourites. If they pick a team of forwards that skate well and avoid the costly penalties that can come with too much grit, defenders that adjust to the larger width well and goaltenders that track off-angle shots well I don't see the intangibles mattering too too much.

In short, I'll reserve my judgement until we narrow the squad down.
- Morris

In the past, the Russians have shown an edge in NOT taking stupid or costly penalties, when compared to Canada.

The bigger ice surface is better suited to the Russian style of play, and they will have not have the problem of "adapting" to it like the Canadians will.

Price carries a garbage team on his back in probably the biggest fishbowl in hockey. All while not being French and at the age of 24. Stud goaltender.
- bureforearthsprez

His most recent playoff failing may hurt his chances of being in the "starter"conversation. (3.26 GAA / .894 Sv%)

He'll really have to get his act together this season to improve his stock.

In the past, the Russians have shown an edge in NOT taking stupid or costly penalties, when compared to Canada.

The bigger ice surface is better suited to the Russian style of play, and they will have not have the problem of "adapting" to it like the Canadians will.
- Doppleganger

The majority of the top players on every team plays in the NHL. The big ice surface "advantage" is a myth I think.

The majority of the top players on every team plays in the NHL. The big ice surface "advantage" is a myth I think.
- daeth

If you're born in Russia/Europe and play from an early age, right up until you're drafted, you've been playing on the International sized ice for the better part of your life, and it becomes second nature..................just as the reverse would be for players born in North America.

Besides, there will be players on the Russian team that have been playing in the KHL, while I doubt there is any North American players, playing in Europe, that will be on either the Canadian or American teams at the Olympics.


Logically this is an advance for players brought up playing on the larger ice surface.


The last time Canada won gold on international sized ice, was in 1952.

Canada has NOT even Medaled on International sized ice, since the NHLers were allowed to compete at the Olympics


Logically this (International sized ice) is a disadvantage for players brought up on NHL sized ice surfaces.

If you're born in Russia/Europe and play from an early age, right up until you're drafted, you've been playing on the International sized ice for the better part of your life, and it becomes second nature..................just as the reverse would be for players born in North America.

Besides, there will be players on the Russian team that have been playing in the KHL, while I doubt there is any North American players, playing in Europe, that will be on either the Canadian or American teams at the Olympics.


Logically this is an advance for players brought up playing on the larger ice surface.


The last time Canada won gold on international sized ice, was in 1952.

Canada has NOT even Medaled on International sized ice, since the NHLers were allowed to compete at the Olympics


Logically this (International sized ice) is a disadvantage for players brought up on NHL sized ice surfaces.
- Doppleganger

Canada has won golds at wc's on that ice size. Pros werent playing until 98, so everything before that is pretty moot.

And even in that tourney, they BADLY outplayed the czechs in the semis and ran into an unconcious hasek.
The bronze game they didnt even show up.
The only real failure due to a bad team makeup was 06.

I cant see some khl player bringing more to the table than drew doughty on any ice surface. It wont be the nikuluns who win gold, itll be the kovalchuks.

Canada has won golds at wc's on that ice size. Pros werent playing until 98, so everything before that is pretty moot.

And even in that tourney, they BADLY outplayed the czechs in the semis and ran into an unconcious hasek.
The bronze game they didnt even show up.
The only real failure due to a bad team makeup was 06.

I cant see some khl player bringing more to the table than drew doughty on any ice surface. It wont be the nikuluns who win gold, itll be the kovalchuks.
- hugefemale dog77

WC is not best on best, so it's never a good measure on who is better on which ever ice surface.

Since 1992, when the NHL allowed their season to be stopped, and sent their best players (for all teams) Canada has NOT won any medal on International sized ice.

It's a single game elimination tournament. Luck and quick chemistry are more important than ice size I'd say. One fantastic goaltending performance by the other team and you're out. One bad bounce and you're out. One bad call by a ref and you could be out.

Guys with speed and skill are going to love the larger ice. Canada's D is probably going to be pretty skilled and mobile (understatement) and their forwards will take full advantage over the extra space as well.

WC is not best on best, so it's never a good measure on who is better on which ever ice surface.

Since 1992, when the NHL allowed their season to be stopped, and sent their best players (for all teams) Canada has NOT won any medal on International sized ice.
- Doppleganger

1992? What are you talking about?

The nhl pros werent allowed to play before 98.

Giroux crosby stamkos
Eberle Toews sharp
Nash getzlaf perry
Lucic bergeron marchand
Staal

Keith seabrook
Weber doughty
Staal subban
Letang

Price/luongo/brodeur

It's a single game elimination tournament. Luck and quick chemistry are more important than ice size I'd say. One fantastic goaltending performance by the other team and you're out. One bad bounce and you're out. One bad call by a ref and you could be out.

Guys with speed and skill are going to love the larger ice. Canada's D is probably going to be pretty skilled and mobile (understatement) and their forwards will take full advantage over the extra space as well.
- daeth

This.
No one ever said there wasnt intangibles involved. Home ice, single elimination, coaching etc etc
But the bottom line is that on paper canada will have the best and deepest team.
This isnt even debateable

1992? What are you talking about?

The nhl pros werent allowed to play before 98.


- hugefemale dog77

Yes your right, I made a simple mistake, but my point is still valid.............Canada has NOT Medaled since NHL pros were allowed, when playing on the larger ice surface.


1998 Czech Republic Russia Finland
2002 Canada United States Russia
2006 Sweden Finland Czech Republic
2010 Canada United States Finland

Yes your right, I made a simple mistake, but my point is still valid.............Canada has NOT Medaled since NHL pros were allowed, when playing on the larger ice surface.


1998 Czech Republic Russia Finland
2002 Canada United States Russia
2006 Sweden Finland Czech Republic
2010 Canada United States Finland
- Doppleganger

it is still valid. i was just trying to take some steam away from your counterpoint by attempting to make you look dumb. that's how the debate game is played after all...

and i will point again to the fact that saying Canada hasn't medaled on the big ice is abit overblown. in 98 they played great. the big ice didn't have a lot to do with it imo. they badly outplayed the Czechs in the semis but ran into a wall in hasek. if there ever was an mvp of a tourney, he'd be it in 98.
and with the gold gone, they didn't even show against finland.

but ive got no real argument against 06. total debacle. they had just won gold in 02 and the world cup in 04 and basically tried to pick the same team and play the nhl game with a ton of size.

they'll be much better coached, prepared and selected this time around imo.
leaving off iginla, morrow, marleau etc is proof positive of this by not going with the old guard from 2010from reputation alone

Guess Canada lost in the shootout in '98 because of the big ice.

Also notice how Russia has had basically equal success on small and big ice even though by Dopps theory* they should be better on the big ice.

*Well, not just his. I hear it a lot on TV/radio as well

Guess Canada lost in the shootout in '98 because of the big ice.

Also notice how Russia has had basically equal success on small and big ice even though by Dopps theory* they should be better on the big ice.

*Well, not just his. I hear it a lot on TV/radio as well
- daeth

tough one to argue with.....

tough one to argue with.....
- hugefemale dog77

Well....they didn't win.