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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Frustrating Pattern
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Hextall271
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hart-Land, NB
Joined: 01.18.2007

May 7 @ 8:49 AM ET
oh my gaude
- feelingkettle


He'll probably get 15 games. Shea Weber can turnbuckle a guy's head and only get a fine, but this was completely off side.
stveshdy
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 06.28.2010

May 7 @ 8:52 AM ET
100% on Giroux getting a reprimand. Hearing at 11.

There's a multitude of reasons why NJ has a 3-1 lead. First of all, the Devils have play very well. They have a game plan, and are executing it very well.

The Flyers have helped them, too. IMO, the Flyers have a multitude of issues. For one thing they are very young and inexperienced. The Flyers have a lot of rookies, as well as second and third year guys under age 25, being asked to carry a ton of weight. That is great for learning purposes, but it can suck for winning today.

The Flyers are as banged up as any team left in the playoffs. Danny Briere said after the first round that there were a lot of guys dealing with pretty significant injuries. I have seen hints that Briere, Giroux, Hartnell, Schenn, JvR, Timonen, Grossmann, Kubina and Bryzgalov are all playing-or have played with-injuries that would likely keep them out of regular season games. This isn't an excuse, but a contributing factor to the way the series has played out.

There's also a visible let down coming out of the war against Pittsburgh. The first round was a physical and emotional battle. That there is a let down to some degree shouldn't amaze anyone. It's troubling that the let down has been to the extent that it has been. That said, bating the Pens gave a lot of people a false sense of security.

Finally, another big factor is, the Flyers have not found an effective counter to the Devils game. I don't want to lay this all on Laviolette, but his adjustments have not been effective, and I wonder if his full scale line changes after game two hurt more than helped. With the Flyers being such a young team, I wonder if the line juggling didn't send the wrong message.

I'm sure there's other issues, but those are the ones I see as being the big ones. The Flyers face long odds, that may well be insurmountable. But at the same time, we still have a lot of reason to be excite for the future of this team....and that includes Tuesday night.

- Jsaquella


The Flyers are being dominated all over the ice. The only player who has come to play in this series is Bryzgalov. I won't count them out because it takes four loses before your eliminated. Right now the Flyers dont deserve to be winning this series. Their having trouble in their own end handling the puck and they cant get any kind of pressure in the offensive zone. Its very frustrating to watch as a fan so it must be even worse for the players.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

May 7 @ 8:54 AM ET
Lavi is being outcoached.

I see no adjustmnents in the Flyers game plan.

They still dump the puck in and allow Marty to play it.

So fustrating to watch.

Bryz was simply awesome last night.

- ggunky



Do you think that the Coaching staff is not aware that they have to keep the puck away from Brodeur on the dump ins? The fans, the announcers, are all talking about it. The Coaches aren't? Is it the Coaches aren't making adjustments, or that they players are not executing the adjustments? I think it's the latter. Regardless of how the Coaches make adjustments, it has to be backed up by the players on the ice. Or it is worthless. This Series is not a Coaching issue.
Philly1980
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 12.30.2011

May 7 @ 9:01 AM ET
100% on Giroux getting a reprimand. Hearing at 11.

There's a multitude of reasons why NJ has a 3-1 lead. First of all, the Devils have play very well. They have a game plan, and are executing it very well.

The Flyers have helped them, too. IMO, the Flyers have a multitude of issues. For one thing they are very young and inexperienced. The Flyers have a lot of rookies, as well as second and third year guys under age 25, being asked to carry a ton of weight. That is great for learning purposes, but it can suck for winning today.

The Flyers are as banged up as any team left in the playoffs. Danny Briere said after the first round that there were a lot of guys dealing with pretty significant injuries. I have seen hints that Briere, Giroux, Hartnell, Schenn, JvR, Timonen, Grossmann, Kubina and Bryzgalov are all playing-or have played with-injuries that would likely keep them out of regular season games. This isn't an excuse, but a contributing factor to the way the series has played out.

There's also a visible let down coming out of the war against Pittsburgh. The first round was a physical and emotional battle. That there is a let down to some degree shouldn't amaze anyone. It's troubling that the let down has been to the extent that it has been. That said, bating the Pens gave a lot of people a false sense of security.

Finally, another big factor is, the Flyers have not found an effective counter to the Devils game. I don't want to lay this all on Laviolette, but his adjustments have not been effective, and I wonder if his full scale line changes after game two hurt more than helped. With the Flyers being such a young team, I wonder if the line juggling didn't send the wrong message.

I'm sure there's other issues, but those are the ones I see as being the big ones. The Flyers face long odds, that may well be insurmountable. But at the same time, we still have a lot of reason to be excite for the future of this team....and that includes Tuesday night.

- Jsaquella



No its Not SAQ....always wanted to say that
stveshdy
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 06.28.2010

May 7 @ 9:03 AM ET
Do you think that the Coaching staff is not aware that they have to keep the puck away from Brodeur on the dump ins? The fans, the announcers, are all talking about it. The Coaches aren't? Is it the Coaches aren't making adjustments, or that they players are not executing the adjustments? I think it's the latter. Regardless of how the Coaches make adjustments, it has to be backed up by the players on the ice. Or it is worthless. This Series is not a Coaching issue.
- MJL


I'm sure the coaching staff has made adjustments or things they would like to see diffferently. However, it doesn't look like it because they have played the same way for three straight games. I dont understand why the Devils pressure is getting to them. They play 82 regular season games and during the course of the year they have seen aggressive forchecks from other teams, so its mind boggling to me that they cant adjust and break the pressure. I dont think the Flyers are done just yet because you never know but if they continue to play the way they have over these past three games the odds of them winning are very slim.
feelingkettle
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: "No sir, I don't like it" Phil, PA
Joined: 11.13.2006

May 7 @ 9:06 AM ET
I'm sure the coaching staff has made adjustments or things they would like to see diffferently. However, it doesn't look like it because they have played the same way for three straight games. I dont understand why the Devils pressure is getting to them. They play 82 regular season games and during the course of the year they have seen aggressive forchecks from other teams, so its mind boggling to me that they cant adjust and break the pressure. I dont think the Flyers are done just yet because you never know but if they continue to play the way they have over these past three games the odds of them winning is zero percent.
- stveshdy

Flyers have no time and space, which is probably a big reason why they are making so many uncharacteristic mistakes. The Pitt series was a war and they are still without two of their top defensemen, Timonen is probably playing injured, along with a bunch of others, and they have had to battle through injuries and whatnot all year. Maybe it is finally catching up with them.

Either way, if the season is over in the next couple of games, I'd say over all it was a good season.
mydoglicks
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: downingtown, PA
Joined: 06.25.2009

May 7 @ 9:12 AM ET
cant blame the goalie this year, is it me or does our team look really small to the devils?

where has simmonds, jvr, hartnell, jagr's size gone? grosman doesent even look as physically big as he did.
eayost
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Into the Void, PA
Joined: 04.14.2010

May 7 @ 9:15 AM ET
...at least the playoffs aren't ending with a goaltending controversy right? That's a good thing at least.


As has been said, when there's no time and space, you have to make quick decisions. And at the NHL level, that's probably the hardest thing for inexperienced guys to do. And it's the sort of thing that separates ok players from really good/great players. The young guys will either figure things out this year or next year and beyond. I know that the "veterens" aren't playing great either, but it only takes one cog in the gears to bog everything down, and this team generally always has at least one or two younger guys out there at a time. They don't really have a choice. We all knew that coming in, so a probable playoff exit wasn't really all that unexpected when looking at things from afar. But it still sucks when it's actually happening.
bird_dog
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PEI
Joined: 09.30.2011

May 7 @ 9:18 AM ET
Time to talk draft prospects and FA signings, who stays who goes.
mydoglicks
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: downingtown, PA
Joined: 06.25.2009

May 7 @ 9:20 AM ET
...at least the playoffs aren't ending with a goaltending controversy right? That's a good thing at least.


As has been said, when there's no time and space, you have to make quick decisions. And at the NHL level, that's probably the hardest thing for inexperienced guys to do. And it's the sort of thing that separates ok players from really good/great players. The young guys will either figure things out this year or next year and beyond. I know that the "veterens" aren't playing great either, but it only takes one cog in the gears to bog everything down, and this team generally always has at least one or two younger guys out there at a time. They don't really have a choice. We all knew that coming in, so a probable playoff exit wasn't really all that unexpected when looking at things from afar. But it still sucks when it's actually happening.

- eayost



they have exceeded my expectations this year, i feel if it ends this way it really boosts bryz for next season because i really beleive he has been our best player this series.

the only thing that is bugging me is that coke head mrichards and crybaby carter may be going alot farther then us.
jd342
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 02.08.2012

May 7 @ 9:20 AM ET
Time to talk draft prospects and FA signings, who stays who goes.
- bird_dog


Bring back Richards and Carter
mydoglicks
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: downingtown, PA
Joined: 06.25.2009

May 7 @ 9:21 AM ET
Time to talk draft prospects and FA signings, who stays who goes.
- bird_dog



, i think they already where last game
BulliesPhan87
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: the lone wolf of hockeybuzz
Joined: 07.31.2009

May 7 @ 9:21 AM ET
The Flyers were not built for the playoffs. They have had a great season. They are not ready to shoot for all the marbles.

Nobody should suggest this has been anything like an unsatisfactory season. The Flyers will be Cup contenders for many years, they are a very young and a very talented team. It is okay to be disappointed with this series. But, Flyer fans should also be celebrating the incredible rebuild that Holmgren has pulled off over a single season.

- spatso

When all is said and done, I don't think this will be seen as a failure of a season. That the Flyers were even discussed as Cup competitors in the season after all that was done last summer is impressive.

That said, in the now this is really disappointing. Maybe their 'advantage' headed into the series was overstated, but I didn't expect this. They're not just losing, they're getting their collective ass kicked.

In conclusion, +1
sulshawn
Joined: 07.28.2008

May 7 @ 9:25 AM ET
100% on Giroux getting a reprimand. Hearing at 11.

There's a multitude of reasons why NJ has a 3-1 lead. First of all, the Devils have play very well. They have a game plan, and are executing it very well.

The Flyers have helped them, too. IMO, the Flyers have a multitude of issues. For one thing they are very young and inexperienced. The Flyers have a lot of rookies, as well as second and third year guys under age 25, being asked to carry a ton of weight. That is great for learning purposes, but it can suck for winning today.

The Flyers are as banged up as any team left in the playoffs. Danny Briere said after the first round that there were a lot of guys dealing with pretty significant injuries. I have seen hints that Briere, Giroux, Hartnell, Schenn, JvR, Timonen, Grossmann, Kubina and Bryzgalov are all playing-or have played with-injuries that would likely keep them out of regular season games. This isn't an excuse, but a contributing factor to the way the series has played out.

There's also a visible let down coming out of the war against Pittsburgh. The first round was a physical and emotional battle. That there is a let down to some degree shouldn't amaze anyone. It's troubling that the let down has been to the extent that it has been. That said, bating the Pens gave a lot of people a false sense of security.

Finally, another big factor is, the Flyers have not found an effective counter to the Devils game. I don't want to lay this all on Laviolette, but his adjustments have not been effective, and I wonder if his full scale line changes after game two hurt more than helped. With the Flyers being such a young team, I wonder if the line juggling didn't send the wrong message.

I'm sure there's other issues, but those are the ones I see as being the big ones. The Flyers face long odds, that may well be insurmountable. But at the same time, we still have a lot of reason to be excite for the future of this team....and that includes Tuesday night.

- Jsaquella


I agree with your points on being such a young team and a great amount of players playing with injuries that would force them to sit out a regular season game. You can easily tell some of them are laboring which makes it easier for the Devils to look much faster and tougher on the forecheck.

Overall, they just seem to stop skating at times and unsure how to play the puck or where to be position-wise. Someone brought up the Simmonds play and JVR missing Zidlicky. I think they are mentally spent. I hope they win tomorrow to extend the series. I'm not ready to pack it in but I realistically dont see them winning this series.
sulshawn
Joined: 07.28.2008

May 7 @ 9:27 AM ET
cant blame the goalie this year, is it me or does our team look really small to the devils?

where has simmonds, jvr, hartnell, jagr's size gone? grosman doesent even look as physically big as he did.

- mydoglicks


It's clear Grossmann as well as many others aren't healthy.
Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

May 7 @ 9:28 AM ET
I'm sure the coaching staff has made adjustments or things they would like to see diffferently. However, it doesn't look like it because they have played the same way for three straight games. I dont understand why the Devils pressure is getting to them. They play 82 regular season games and during the course of the year they have seen aggressive forchecks from other teams, so its mind boggling to me that they cant adjust and break the pressure. I dont think the Flyers are done just yet because you never know but if they continue to play the way they have over these past three games the odds of them winning are very slim.
- stveshdy


The coach has juggled the lines in each of the last two games. It's not as if they're standing by. It's just not working. My worry is that the changes were too much and backfired, causing a lack of confidence rather than a spark.
MBFlyerfan
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Be nice from now on, NJ
Joined: 03.17.2006

May 7 @ 9:30 AM ET
Bryzgalov is the only reason the Flyers have even been in the series.

As for the team, not only are they being outplayed by the Devils, they are being out thought. When you are getting outworked the tendency is sometime to try to do more, make the trickier pass, try to beat someone individually.

It may seem counter intuitive, but the Flyers need to start doing LESS. They need to start simplifying everything. Get the puck in the corner. Chip it in to the right place and get after it instead of trying a cross ice pass in to the middle.

Stop trying to skate the puck out of danger in the neutral zone, bear down and get it out.

Stop receiving outlet passes in a stationary position in the neutral zone.

Stop trying to make ill advised passes and be more patient. Chip it up the wall, wrap it around with authority when you have offensive zone pressure. Throw it at the net and crash!

I think a lot of this is a symptom of their youth, and getting frustrated because they have never faced REAL pressure like this from an established group of veteran NHL players.

Im sure the vets would like to help, but Jagr, Briere, Timonen, Hartnell, Grossman, Carle etc etc etc are all playing like crap as well. And probably banged up.

It is probably too late but Lavi has to go back to hockey 101 with these guys. Dump in the corners with speed. Win races and battles, get it to the net and score ugly. That is the only way.

The amount of time our defense has spent in their own zone...they must be exhausted.

Ugh. It looks hopeless. The Devils have "Red Winged" us like 1997.

Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

May 7 @ 9:32 AM ET
I agree with your points on being such a young team and a great amount of players playing with injuries that would force them to sit out a regular season game. You can easily tell some of them are laboring which makes it easier for the Devils to look much faster and tougher on the forecheck.

Overall, they just seem to stop skating at times and unsure how to play the puck or where to be position-wise. Someone brought up the Simmonds play and JVR missing Zidlicky. I think they are mentally spent. I hope they win tomorrow to extend the series. I'm not ready to pack it in but I realistically dont see them winning this series.

- sulshawn


I was just trying to say it's no one thing that's caused the Devils to take control of the series. There's a ton of factors at play and they have combined to get us where we are now. It sucks, but if nothing else, it's a great learning experience for the kids.

Only a fool would realistically see them winning the series. Regardless of me being positive and optimistic, I realize that overcoming a 3-1 deficit is not likely. I'm just going to root for them, like I always do and hope for the best.
bodiva88
Referee
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: There aren't any answers. Only choices.
Joined: 07.01.2007

May 7 @ 9:32 AM ET
It's nice to see Bryz playing so well given all the crap he received most of the year from the majority of the fan base. Such a shame the rest of the team is wasting his efforts!

- aantny88

It just shows what he can do with the foot finally healed. After the first round I was talking about how deep and determined this team was. Now I don't want to talk about this team. Sad.
feelingkettle
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: "No sir, I don't like it" Phil, PA
Joined: 11.13.2006

May 7 @ 9:33 AM ET
...at least the playoffs aren't ending with a goaltending controversy right? That's a good thing at least.


As has been said, when there's no time and space, you have to make quick decisions. And at the NHL level, that's probably the hardest thing for inexperienced guys to do. And it's the sort of thing that separates ok players from really good/great players. The young guys will either figure things out this year or next year and beyond. I know that the "veterens" aren't playing great either, but it only takes one cog in the gears to bog everything down, and this team generally always has at least one or two younger guys out there at a time. They don't really have a choice. We all knew that coming in, so a probable playoff exit wasn't really all that unexpected when looking at things from afar. But it still sucks when it's actually happening.

- eayost

Very good points.
sulshawn
Joined: 07.28.2008

May 7 @ 9:37 AM ET
I was just trying to say it's no one thing that's caused the Devils to take control of the series. There's a ton of factors at play and they have combined to get us where we are now. It sucks, but if nothing else, it's a great learning experience for the kids.

Only a fool would realistically see them winning the series. Regardless of me being positive and optimistic, I realize that overcoming a 3-1 deficit is not likely. I'm just going to root for them, like I always do and hope for the best.

- Jsaquella


Definitely agree with your assessments. I think its a great learning expwerience too and they just look physically and mentally spent. I'm still rooting and hoping for the best too. But even if they lose Tuesday, I still think this has been a really good season for them.
nastyflyergirl
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: this space for rent, PA
Joined: 09.19.2006

May 7 @ 9:37 AM ET
Do you think that the Coaching staff is not aware that they have to keep the puck away from Brodeur on the dump ins? The fans, the announcers, are all talking about it. The Coaches aren't? Is it the Coaches aren't making adjustments, or that they players are not executing the adjustments? I think it's the latter. Regardless of how the Coaches make adjustments, it has to be backed up by the players on the ice. Or it is worthless. This Series is not a Coaching issue.
- MJL



the fact that Lavy's head looks like its about to explode all throughout the games tells me the players are not executing what the coaching staff is telling them.
Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

May 7 @ 9:38 AM ET
Definitely agree with your assessments. I think its a great learning expwerience too and they just look physically and mentally spent. I'm still rooting and hoping for the best too. But even if they lose Tuesday, I still think this has been a really good season for them.
- sulshawn


There have been a lot of positives. It will be disappointing if things end Tuesday, or even Thursday, but that doesn't erase the positives.
nastyflyergirl
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: this space for rent, PA
Joined: 09.19.2006

May 7 @ 9:43 AM ET
There have been a lot of positives. It will be disappointing if things end Tuesday, or even Thursday, but that doesn't erase the positives.
- Jsaquella



with Pronger's situation and the contract status of Carle and Kubina (who obviously won't be back), the flyers definitely have some work to do on the back end.
Scoob
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: love is love
Joined: 06.29.2006

May 7 @ 9:44 AM ET
Bryz... just must be getting a little shell shocked.... the team is falling apart in front of him and he is doing what he can to keep us in it
- flyer186


He was the man last night for sure. After the Devils third goal I thought we were going to see a Cechmanek style flip out.
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