I think one could make the argument that Giroux intended to hit Zubrus high on his chest, based on body position.

But still, it's a hit that the league rightfully wants to eliminate. G deserves a game, imo.
- FlyerGuy

It also doesn't help how visibly frustrated Giroux was. He clearly chased Zubrus down and slipped into to get him high in the chest/head.

Yea but Doboer had Lemaire and Robinson to consult, Lavi has Berube...
- canadianpenfan

thought i saw adam oates over there too hmmm

I still think the Flyers can win this series, but they have to commit to defending. like eayost just mentioned they did it in March why can't they do it now?
- JoeRussomanno

Their 200 foot game has to be a lot better. Intensity is the first thing, followed closely by execution. Both elements have been lacking against New Jersey.

It's not as cut and dried as some would like it to be. There's no one guy or one thing that can be blamed. I know that some folks like to have that easy scapegoat, but it's a team situation and there's many, many factors to it.

It also doesn't help how visibly frustrated Giroux was. He clearly chased Zubrus down and slipped into to get him high in the chest/head.
- markmark

agreed ... he was definitely looking to make a hit after the blown call on Brodeur.

just a stupid, dirty play born out of frustration.

Their 200 foot game has to be a lot better. Intensity is the first thing, followed closely by execution. Both elements have been lacking against New Jersey.

It's not as cut and dried as some would like it to be. There's no one guy or one thing that can be blamed. I know that some folks like to have that easy scapegoat, but it's a team situation and there's many, many factors to it.
- Jsaquella

Briere got us into this mess. He shall get us out of it.

On the bright side, Schenn has looked good!

Their 200 foot game has to be a lot better. Intensity is the first thing, followed closely by execution. Both elements have been lacking against New Jersey.

It's not as cut and dried as some would like it to be. There's no one guy or one thing that can be blamed. I know that some folks like to have that easy scapegoat, but it's a team situation and there's many, many factors to it.
- Jsaquella

I'm just singling out the easiest thing to fix. Let's face it, Jvr doesn't let Zidlicky skate past him, hartnell doesn't lose his man and this thing could be a Flyers win. That's just two plays off the top of my head. The parise goal in game 3 was another prime example. I think those things are easier to fix than all the offensive issues, although I don't know how hard it is to get to the net, screen the goalie and find the rebounds. It's the little things that count, ya know?

The question is, why would players who have not quit the entire season suddenly stop working hard? Philly has been amazingly resilient in staging comebacks. The same players who showed will and hustle: what happened to them?
- PT21

There is working hard, and there is working SMART. They are not working SMART. In my opinion they are trying to do TOO MUCH out there. Trying to make the great play instead of the simple play. Inexperience contributes to this of course, and that is where the vets need to step up and educate. Problem is, the vets are as beat up and frustrated as the kids.

Lavy can only tell them to keep it simple so many times. This is on the players. They give you the standard "we need to work harder to win" line, but in the end the expend TOO MUCH effort trying to make up for mistakes resulting from trying to do too much.

I keep thinking about Giroux a minute in to the game. The Flyers had the puck in the zone. No one was near him, and he tried to force some low percentage pass through three Devils which resulted in a breakout the other way. Stupid stupid stupid!

Keep it simple, idiots!

agreed ... he was definitely looking to make a hit after the blown call on Brodeur.

just a stupid, dirty play born out of frustration.
- FlyerGuy

Malkin never got suspended so...

Briere got us into this mess. He shall get us out of it.
- OrangeBlack27

He's another guy. He just looks disinterested when he doesn't have the puck on his stick. He's never been known for defence though, so I suppose he gets a bit of a pass.

The future also looked bright with Carter, Richards, JVR and Giroux 3 years ago. There is many a slip between the cup and the lip, as they say.

In the playoffs:

Schenn: has contributed negligibly in offensive zone, bad in defensive zone
Couts: Amazing defensive game, but offensive upside is still TBD. But probably the best find of the season.
Simmonds: Given that his game is supposed to be about winning battles and showing emotion and he looks healthy, his awful play raises a huge red flag to me, especially since last year he was much more noticeable in LA. AT best, he seems like a streaky player.
JVR: His value will never be lower. I would hang on to him and trade him after he puts up some decent points. Which he will.
Voracek: Second best find, and you can see this is a player who continues to work even when the chips are down.
Jagr: Bye bye.

Lavy: well, the entire flyers game is predicated on having enough offense and forecheck to overcome poor defensive play by forwards. This is a pretty spectacular meltdown and if it wasn't for Brodeur, Flyers would have been shut out a couple of times.
- PT21

I agree with most of your assesment but:

Schenn: 8 pts in 10 gms not negligible. I think his defensive game could use a boost.

JVR: Value is still high cause his potential is off the charts. There are a lot of teams that would give up defense in order to attain his services.

It's much easier to blame the Coach rather then the players who are actually on the ice. And to look and see what's really happening out there.
- MJL

If it were a matter of 3-4 players not playing, or a weak 3rd pairing getting taken advantage of, then sure, blame the players... But when the entire team is making the same mistakes 3 games in a row... then its time to blame the coach. Debour adjusted his team after game 1 to exploit phillys weaknesses... Philly isn't doing anything effective to stop this.

He's another guy. He just looks disinterested when he doesn't have the puck on his stick. He's never been known for defence though, so I suppose he gets a bit of a pass.
- canadianpenfan

yea you just opened this

I'm just singling out the easiest thing to fix. Let's face it, Jvr doesn't let Zidlicky skate past him, hartnell doesn't lose his man and this thing could be a Flyers win. That's just two plays off the top of my head. The parise goal in game 3 was another prime example. I think those things are easier to fix than all the offensive issues, although I don't know how hard it is to get to the net, screen the goalie and find the rebounds. It's the little things that count, ya know?
- JoeRussomanno

That's intensity & execution in a nutshell.

The Ponikarovsky OT winner was because of a ridiculously dumb and badly timed line change. That's on the players. JvR & Hartnell blowing coverages are individual breakdowns that cost them. Others have had them, too. Carle on the first goal, as well.

There's been more issues that haven't ended up in the Flyers net. But you get the Devils down low, cycling and it saps energy. You get a bad turnover instead of a clear or outlet pass and it saps energy.

Their confidence is low, so now execution errors cause a drop in intensity, and things snowball.

That's intensity & execution in a nutshell.

The Ponikarovsky OT winner was because of a ridiculously dumb and badly timed line change. That's on the players. JvR & Hartnell blowing coverages are individual breakdowns that cost them. Others have had them, too. Carle on the first goal, as well.

There's been more issues that haven't ended up in the Flyers net. But you get the Devils down low, cycling and it saps energy. You get a bad turnover instead of a clear or outlet pass and it saps energy.

Their confidence is low, so now execution errors cause a drop in intensity, and things snowball.
- Jsaquella

gotcha

He's another guy. He just looks disinterested when he doesn't have the puck on his stick. He's never been known for defence though, so I suppose he gets a bit of a pass.
- canadianpenfan

Most polarizing player in NHL history. His lines typically get out-chanced 5-on-5 (not by a small margin, might I add), but he doesn't need many opportunities to make amends for it because he's such a lethal finisher. I can't imagine a guy has ever been on the ice for so many total goals in 15-16 minutes every night.

If you cant get the players to respond..... then thats on the coach. It's not like it's 1-2 guys losing this series. The whole team can't get anything done. And that has to fall on the coach either not making the right adjustments, or not being able to get the players to respond...
- RooNosHockey

Ultimately the Coach normally pays the price. But it's really not on the Coach, if the players don't respond. It's on the players who don't respond. The ones who actually have the opportunity to go on the ice and play.

gotcha
- JoeRussomanno

Also, as a follow up, MB mentions that they are working hard...and they ARE. They're working hard for the most part, but they're playing some dumb hockey...and when they get caught not working, and been burned by it on the scoreboard, it's usually right after a dumb mistake causes a lull in the intensity

If it were a matter of 3-4 players not playing, or a weak 3rd pairing getting taken advantage of, then sure, blame the players... But when the entire team is making the same mistakes 3 games in a row... then its time to blame the coach. Debour adjusted his team after game 1 to exploit phillys weaknesses... Philly isn't doing anything effective to stop this.
- RooNosHockey

Debour did no such thing. The Devils have played the same way all four games.

This is ALL on the players. Lavy doesn't make stupid puck decisions. Lavy doesn't try to beat three guys by himself on a rush. Lavy doesn't try to throw a cross ice pass through three Devils. Lavy doesn't stand still in the neutral zone and lose his check in the defensive zone. Lavy doesn't lose puck battles in the corner.

So you suggest that we should just call up the Phantoms at this point? Because short of that, Lavy can do NOTHING about these players not executing. And if they just simplified their game and executed when they needed to, this would be a different series.

If it were a matter of 3-4 players not playing, or a weak 3rd pairing getting taken advantage of, then sure, blame the players... But when the entire team is making the same mistakes 3 games in a row... then its time to blame the coach. Debour adjusted his team after game 1 to exploit phillys weaknesses... Philly isn't doing anything effective to stop this.
- RooNosHockey

DeBoer hasn't changed anything. They are playing their style and dictating play. It's just the opposite from what your saying. If it's one or two players, or one defense pair, then it's up to the Coach to make lineup changes. Change icetimes, or look to get better matchups to lessen the effect of a player or two. When it's an entire team getting outplayed. It's definitely not on the Coach.

yea you just opened this


- JoeRussomanno

My work here is done.

Also, as a follow up, MB mentions that they are working hard...and they ARE. They're working hard for the most part, but they're playing some dumb hockey...and when they get caught not working, and been burned by it on the scoreboard, it's usually right after a dumb mistake causes a lull in the intensity
- Jsaquella

In my opinion this has been their MO when facing adversity in any game. They tend to try to get cute and do too much when they should be going back to basics. And they are at their best when they play basic hockey. Youth and lack of experience.


They were coming back all season and getting on the Pens BECAUSE they simplified everything. I thought they had finally gotten it. But the Devils have played almost perfect hockey.

DeBoer hasn't changed anything. They are playing their style and dictating play. It's just the opposite from what your saying. If it's one or two players, or one defense pair, then it's up to the Coach to make lineup changes. Change icetimes, or look to get better matchups to lessen the effect of a player or two. When it's an entire team getting outplayed. It's definitely not on the Coach.
- MJL

The Flyers knew that was a huge game and they came out extrememly flat. Either Lavi has some really brutal pregame speeches or the Devils came out of the room wanting it more. I would lean towards the latter. I think if each team was allowed 5 timeout's the Flyers would win the cup though.

If it were a matter of 3-4 players not playing, or a weak 3rd pairing getting taken advantage of, then sure, blame the players... But when the entire team is making the same mistakes 3 games in a row... then its time to blame the coach. Debour adjusted his team after game 1 to exploit phillys weaknesses... Philly isn't doing anything effective to stop this.
- RooNosHockey

You're looking for a scapegoat. It's not as easy as saying that Laviolette is to blame. He shares in the blame, but it's on everybody.

Also, as a follow up, MB mentions that they are working hard...and they ARE. They're working hard for the most part, but they're playing some dumb hockey...and when they get caught not working, and been burned by it on the scoreboard, it's usually right after a dumb mistake causes a lull in the intensity
- Jsaquella

yea I mean I know they are working hard, just those breakdowns jump right out at me. getting beat is one thing, but having breakdowns to me is another.