For much of the last year and a half through all the injuries the Penguins did play like they have been there before. They did remarkable things in the face of adversity. However there is a breaking point with adversity and it came to a boil when all their players were healthy and they thought things would be easy and just come to them. It didnt, they got frustrated, and had a bad month. Much like the Flyers finally getting over their hump (the Penguins) and not sticking to the plan that got them past the Penguins when playing the Devils.

The Penguins getting all of their top guns back gave them a false sense of security. The goals allowed stats show just that. I dont think the team is in as bad of a place as some people are making them out to be. They are true professionals and have shown that for the better part of 4 years now. Im not going to let one brutal month erase the larger picture.
- Gunner Staal

I, in no way, think the team is "in a bad place". I do think they need some changes....probably more than you do. The larger picture for me is windows close very quickly in any sport.....especially ones with salary caps. How many people thought after the '93 loss to the Isle thought this team will have plenty more chances.

Still, I think you're twisting my thoughts a little which was more of a compliment to the Red Wings and how Jersey just demolished a team that made our team look like a circus act. It wasn't the loss to a good team, It was the embarrassing manner in which they lost.

Yes, I expected more from the coach and yes I expected more from players even when they're frustrated. In my business....(In any business)....frustrated is an excuse.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I will add, judging by the look on Mario's face and the tone of Shero in the post mortem interviews.....I'd say they probably agree with me.

Trade. Simple as that. I am not sure that anyone is happy with the situation in Nashville. I think with the ties to Shero, as he drafted him, he would sign a big deal for the pens. Trade for him just like Toronto when they picked up Kessel. I still think Malkin is movable, although he is worth much more then Weber. I am firmly behind moving one of either Staal or Malkin at this point and getting a huge return for them. At no time previous has their trade values been higher. This would present a great way to get rid of Martin's contract as well. I would much perfer a Malkin trade packaged with Martin, this may have to be a three way deal with edmonton maybe?

Malkin to Edmonton, 1st overall pick and Martin to Nashville, Weber and Hemsky(maybe) to Pittsburgh

I really am trying to think outside the box. I love Geno as a pen, but im not sure we can keep all three for much longer anyways.
- taleisyreXIII

So, were you assuming a few years ago that Dan Hamhuis would be open to signing in Pittsburgh because of that same connection to Shero as Weber has. Hamhuis had NO INTEREST despite that.

So, you trade Malkin for Hemsky, because you are shipping off the first and Martin for Weber? Not a chance of happening. Malkin is worth far more than the first and Hemsky. Hemsky is worthless and is making five million the next two years. Why would Nashville want Martin?

Trade. Simple as that. I am not sure that anyone is happy with the situation in Nashville. I think with the ties to Shero, as he drafted him, he would sign a big deal for the pens. Trade for him just like Toronto when they picked up Kessel. I still think Malkin is movable, although he is worth much more then Weber. I am firmly behind moving one of either Staal or Malkin at this point and getting a huge return for them. At no time previous has their trade values been higher. This would present a great way to get rid of Martin's contract as well. I would much perfer a Malkin trade packaged with Martin, this may have to be a three way deal with edmonton maybe?

Malkin to Edmonton, 1st overall pick and Martin to Nashville, Weber and Hemsky(maybe) to Pittsburgh

I really am trying to think outside the box. I love Geno as a pen, but im not sure we can keep all three for much longer anyways.
- taleisyreXIII

So we basically end up trading Malkin & Martin for Weber and Hemsky? No thanks...

I like Weber a lot... but not as an $8+ million player.

There is no need to trade Malkin at all... You will lose out in any deal involving him.

With Despres and Morrow on the horizon, and Letang's contract coming up in a oouple of years, I have no appetite for taking on another high priced defenseman.

I'd be much more comfortable getting rid of Martin, and trading for a simple defensive defenseman in the $1.5-$3.5 mil range like a Ryan O`Byrne, Rob Scuderi, Mark Stuart, Shane O'Brien type player... or even go as far as checking out Bryan Allen as a UFA, but he will probably have offers out there with more term or money than I'd be comfortable with.

If a player like Malkin is happy and content with being a Penguin and the role he has with the team, you just dont trade guys like that, regardless of the return they bring. Malkin is literally one of the very few options that can provide injury insurance for Crosby's talents. Staal just does not provide that kind of insurance. Malkin's pros are more than Staal. I want to keep all three and am willing to make sacrifices on the roster to do so but if you want to play the either or game, Staal is the one on his way out, not Malkin. Furthermore Malkin is more entertaining to watch, and that is a main component for why most people watch hockey, which is better for the business side of things as well.
- Gunner Staal

While I agree with most of what you are saying here. I believe the defensive side of Staal's game, coupled with a decent output on the scoresheet(this will continue to rise) is something you cannot overlook. His cap hit will always be lower, and unless Malkin AND Crosby will forever take discounts to play in Pittsburgh(they wont!) there is no way we can move forward with two 10 plus million dollar centerman. With Sid and Geno making 10 say after the next contract, there is a risk of losing Letang as well. For this year and next year, yes, Malkin is good right where he is. But, I am also trying to look long term here too.

So we basically end up trading Malkin & Martin for Webbr and Hemsky? No thanks...

I like Weber a lot... but not as an $8+ million player.

There is no need to trade Malkin at all... You will lose out in any deal involving him.

With Despres and Morrow on the horizon, and Letang's contract coming up in a oouple of years, I have no appetite for taking on another high priced defenseman.

I'd be much more comfortable getting rid of Martin, and trading for a simple defensive defenseman in the $1.5-$3.5 mil range like a Ryan O`Byrne, Rob Scuderi, Mark Stuart, Shane O'Brien type player... or even go as far as checking out Bryan Allen as a UFA, but he will probably have offers out there with more term or money than I'd be comfortable with.
- rival22

Shero's one area he lacks in is drafting forwards that are not in the top 5 overall. This means that the young defensemen on rookie deals need to play, and they need to play well.

So we basically end up trading Malkin & Martin for Weber and Hemsky? No thanks...

I like Weber a lot... but not as an $8+ million player.

There is no need to trade Malkin at all... You will lose out in any deal involving him.

With Despres and Morrow on the horizon, and Letang's contract coming up in a oouple of years, I have no appetite for taking on another high priced defenseman.

I'd be much more comfortable getting rid of Martin, and trading for a simple defensive defenseman in the $1.5-$3.5 mil range like a Ryan O`Byrne, Rob Scuderi, Mark Stuart, Shane O'Brien type player... or even go as far as checking out Bryan Allen as a UFA, but he will probably have offers out there with more term or money than I'd be comfortable with.
- rival22

Martin is a flat out rid ourselves of the contract. Id take Weber straight up for Malkin at this point. But that is a slight over payment. Malkin is amazing and in no way am I undervaluing him to our team. But we NEED defence and GREAT defence. Weber to the blue line is what Malkin is to scoring. Add to it all that Geno DISAPPEARS when Sid is playing and this begins to make sense. I do not want to see Sid traded, but if you are all so worried about his health, then I guess maybe he can be moved?

Martin is a flat out rid ourselves of the contract. Id take Weber straight up for Malkin at this point. But that is a slight over payment. Malkin is amazing and in no way am I undervaluing him to our team. But we NEED defence and GREAT defence. Weber to the blue line is what Malkin is to scoring. Add to it all that Geno DISAPPEARS when Sid is playing and this begins to make sense. I do not want to see Sid traded, but if you are all so worried about his health, then I guess maybe he can be moved?
- taleisyreXIII

Nashville had great defense and it got them nowhere. You need balance.

Nashville had great defense and it got them nowhere. You need balance.
- Gunner Staal

And be able to hold a lead! Please. Something we have been sh1tty at for a while now. No joke.

Speaking of Good D, how much do we miss Scuderi, he is having another wonderful year in the post-season!

Martin is a flat out rid ourselves of the contract. Id take Weber straight up for Malkin at this point. But that is a slight over payment. Malkin is amazing and in no way am I undervaluing him to our team. But we NEED defence and GREAT defence. Weber to the blue line is what Malkin is to scoring. Add to it all that Geno DISAPPEARS when Sid is playing and this begins to make sense. I do not want to see Sid traded, but if you are all so worried about his health, then I guess maybe he can be moved?
- taleisyreXIII

Can we get past that? Malkin won a Conn Smythe with Sid in the lineup, and he put up 100 point seasons with Sid largely in the lineup, and his production didn't change this year with Sid in.

Speaking of Good D, how much do we miss Scuderi, he is having another wonderful year in the post-season!
- taleisyreXIII

I dont think it was ever in question that we would miss him.

Nashville had great defense and it got them nowhere. You need balance.
- Gunner Staal

I didnt say trade our whole team for Nashville. But look at the remaining teams in the playoffs. All lower scoring, Defense first, Goaltending first, shot-blocking teams. If the interference and clutch and grab is back to stay, we need to adjust and trading one of our MANY offensive stars to get ONE defensive star, could give us the BALANCE your suggesting we NEED??

I think the only thing that could have saved either PIT or PHI after that emotional series, was having the SCF as the next round. Anybody can get up for the Finals, tough to get up for the 2nd round from a mental aspect after such an emotional series on both sides. Something to keep in mind for those that were in favor of the proposed realignment and how the playoffs would work. Hell the Capitals in the newer format would not have even made the playoffs and they have won more games than PIT or PHI.

Hartnell made a comment on how he was surprised at how hard the Devils were trying

"I don't think we thought we were going to win four straight," Hartnell said today, "but definitely, they've played a lot stronger and a lot harder than me personally would have thought they'd come with. They've been on a high the last few weeks obviously, beating Florida in Game 7.

I mean what did you think they were going to do, lie down?

"We have to have a bit more attitude," Scott Hartnell said. "Obviously between the whistles, not taking stupid penalties. It was pretty easy to get that emotion up versus Pittsburgh. It just seems like you'd watch the Devils-Florida series and there wasn't much emotion at all.

Just goes to show how much the emotion played into PHI's success against PIT. Playing like robots is a better approach in a series like that.
- Gunner Staal

Yeah I saw those interviews with them. They seemed to be drained and a few other kinda hinted towards not being able to get the same amount of emotion going against the devils as they had against us. Understandably so.

Nashville had great defense and it got them nowhere. You need balance.
- Gunner Staal

For as talented as that defense looks on paper, that defense sure as hell surrendered alot of shots that Rinne had to turn aside.

I didnt say trade our whole team for Nashville. But look at the remaining teams in the playoffs. All lower scoring, Defense first, Goaltending first, shot-blocking teams. If the interference and clutch and grab is back to stay, we need to adjust and trading one of our MANY offensive stars to get ONE defensive star, could give us the BALANCE your suggesting we NEED??
- taleisyreXIII

The way the Penguins are set up those defensive stars are already in the organization. Despres and Morrow are going to get a look to play that role before they go out and spend big money on another D man, especially with Letang making peanuts for what he brings.

For as talented as that defense looks on paper, that defense sure as hell surrendered alot of shots that Rinne had to turn aside.
- Oneonta Penguin

I saw very little of the Yotes Preds series. Bits and pieces of all games. What I did see was a lot of Nashville playing all over the Yotes. I believe Chicago was also all over the Yotes.

Nash 21 GA in 10 games Pit 30 GA in 6 games

Nash 29.6 shots against avg Pit 27.5 shots against average

Shots against is a FIVE man defense stat, this isnt a stat that is all about the D-men.

So, after going into what could accurately be called a "Hockey-induced emotional tailspin" by the round 1 loss to the Flyers [my Flyers co-worker didn't help the matter much], I think I'm finally ready to jump back into hockey talk.

So aside from lynching, Martin (and maybe Fleury...) after the round 1 loss, what's everyone thinking should be the offseason plan?

My 'To Do' list for Shero:

1) Trade Martin: I've defended the guy for so long, but I've just had it. The Pens need a big, bruising Dman like Grossman. Martin just doesn't fit at all.

2) Sign a solid back-up G: Johnson's Cap Hit was $600K/yr and went 6-7-2 (14pts). Martin Biron (NYR) was $875K/yr and went 12-6-2 (26pts). I'd say the extra ~12pts in the standings and rest for Fleury is work $275K/yr.

3) Do something with Niskanen: Ideally, sign him to a 2-yr deal at ~$2.25M/yr if Martin can be moved. If not, he's still a RFA that could net some value in a trade.

So, after going into what could accurately be called a "Hockey-induced emotional tailspin" by the round 1 loss to the Flyers
- s0rcerer1984[my Flyers co-worker didn't help the matter much], I think I'm finally ready to jump back into hockey talk.

So aside from lynching, Martin (and maybe Fleury...) after the round 1 loss, what's everyone thinking should be the offseason plan?

My 'To Do' list for Shero:

1) Trade Martin: I've defended the guy for so long, but I've just had it. The Pens need a big, bruising Dman like Grossman. Martin just doesn't fit at all.

2) Sign a solid back-up G: Johnson's Cap Hit was $600K/yr and went 6-7-2 (14pts). Martin Biron (NYR) was $875K/yr and went 12-6-2 (26pts). I'd say the extra ~12pts in the standings and rest for Fleury is work $275K/yr.

3) Do something with Niskanen: Ideally, sign him to a 2-yr deal at ~$2.25M/yr if Martin can be moved. If not, he's still a RFA that could net some value in a trade.

The general conversation has been to trade Malkin/Staal/Crosby/Fleury for draft picks, weber, Schneider or Luongo, etc. So in other words you haven't missed much except for some fun "What if" conversations.

So, after going into what could accurately be called a "Hockey-induced emotional tailspin" by the round 1 loss to the Flyers
- s0rcerer1984[my Flyers co-worker didn't help the matter much], I think I'm finally ready to jump back into hockey talk.

So aside from lynching, Martin (and maybe Fleury...) after the round 1 loss, what's everyone thinking should be the offseason plan?

My 'To Do' list for Shero:

1) Trade Martin: I've defended the guy for so long, but I've just had it. The Pens need a big, bruising Dman like Grossman. Martin just doesn't fit at all.

2) Sign a solid back-up G: Johnson's Cap Hit was $600K/yr and went 6-7-2 (14pts). Martin Biron (NYR) was $875K/yr and went 12-6-2 (26pts). I'd say the extra ~12pts in the standings and rest for Fleury is work $275K/yr.

3) Do something with Niskanen: Ideally, sign him to a 2-yr deal at ~$2.25M/yr if Martin can be moved. If not, he's still a RFA that could net some value in a trade.

Welcome back... you missed some people blowing up the team. I think we had calls to trade Staal, Malkin, Martin, Orpik, Fleury, Bylsma, Shero, Neal... and maybe a couple others.

I think most of us are in agreement with your three points.

So, after going into what could accurately be called a "Hockey-induced emotional tailspin" by the round 1 loss to the Flyers
- s0rcerer1984[my Flyers co-worker didn't help the matter much], I think I'm finally ready to jump back into hockey talk.

So aside from lynching, Martin (and maybe Fleury...) after the round 1 loss, what's everyone thinking should be the offseason plan?

My 'To Do' list for Shero:

1) Trade Martin: I've defended the guy for so long, but I've just had it. The Pens need a big, bruising Dman like Grossman. Martin just doesn't fit at all.

2) Sign a solid back-up G: Johnson's Cap Hit was $600K/yr and went 6-7-2 (14pts). Martin Biron (NYR) was $875K/yr and went 12-6-2 (26pts). I'd say the extra ~12pts in the standings and rest for Fleury is work $275K/yr.

3) Do something with Niskanen: Ideally, sign him to a 2-yr deal at ~$2.25M/yr if Martin can be moved. If not, he's still a RFA that could net some value in a trade.

1) YES!

2) YES!

3) Maybe...Gill is a UFA...everyone knows i want Weber too haha

The general conversation has been to trade Malkin/Staal/Crosby/Fleury for draft picks, weber, Schneider or Luongo, etc. So in other words you haven't missed much except for some fun "What if" conversations.
- kgrpitt

How can you forget Hemsky coming back as well?

Welcome back... you missed some people blowing up the team. I think we had calls to trade Staal, Malkin, Martin, Orpik, Fleury, Bylsma, Shero, Neal... and maybe a couple others.

I think most of us are in agreement with your three points.
- rival22

The best one was Malkin and Neal in the same package.

2) Sign a solid back-up G: Johnson's Cap Hit was $600K/yr and went 6-7-2 (14pts). Martin Biron (NYR) was $875K/yr and went 12-6-2 (26pts). I'd say the extra ~12pts in the standings and rest for Fleury is work $275K/yr.

- s0rcerer1984

Are those 12 points because Biron is that much better, though, or because he was good enough to win behind New York's exceptional defensive team? Just a thought, the extra salary is negligible and I don't know what Johnson will be looking for. Also, I'm still a fan of Marty.

Are those 12 points because Biron is that much better, though, or because he was good enough to win behind New York's exceptional defensive team? Just a thought, the extra salary is negligible and I don't know what Johnson will be looking for. Also, I'm still a fan of Marty.
- BulliesPhan87

I think Biron was the beneficiary of a good situation as well as being a good backup goalie.

I really think we will pay if we trade Staal...He is the only guy on the team that can be counted on to forcheck the other team into dust. Time and time again that man grinds out shifts like no other in the offensive zone. His ability to kill penalties is near the top on the team. The way he plays against top level talent is the best we have for containing the stars of other teams.

Malkin; For all his line did this season on the scorecard, how many countless times did we see geno neal and kunitz running around their own zone, getting trapped out on long shifts and costing us goals against?