I really think we will pay if we trade Staal...He is the only guy on the team that can be counted on to forcheck the other team into dust. Time and time again that man grinds out shifts like no other in the offensive zone. His ability to kill penalties is near the top on the team. The way he plays against top level talent is the best we have for containing the stars of other teams.

Malkin; For all his line did this season on the scorecard, how many countless times did we see geno neal and kunitz running around their own zone, getting trapped out on long shifts and costing us goals against?
- taleisyreXIII

Malkin will never reach the defensive zone levels that Staal can (Selke nomination) but he is far from a liability.

I think Biron was the beneficiary of a good situation as well as being a good backup goalie.
- Gunner Staal

I agree, the unknown in my situation is Johnson. From what little I'd seen, he was alright in the backup role.

I agree, the unknown in my situation is Johnson. From what little I'd seen, he was alright in the backup role.
- BulliesPhan87

He was, but he did have a poor season this year. Seems there is no middle ground with Johnson. Last year he was lights out when Fleury had his struggles and this year his poor play forced Bylsma's hand to give Fleury more work than he probably should have had.

I think Biron was the beneficiary of a good situation as well as being a good backup goalie.
- Gunner Staal

100% agree here! This is also why Quick should win the Vezina and Should have been given the nod for the Hart!

Are those 12 points because Biron is that much better, though, or because he was good enough to win behind New York's exceptional defensive team? Just a thought, the extra salary is negligible and I don't know what Johnson will be looking for. Also, I'm still a fan of Marty.
- BulliesPhan87

Easy to say without knowing the cap and other pieces, but I'd like to see Shero bring a guy in like Niittymaki or Al Montoya who can start 25 games, and cut Fleury's workload back a bit.

He was, but he did have a poor season this year. Seems there is no middle ground with Johnson. Last year he was lights out when Fleury had his struggles and this year his poor play forced Bylsma's hand to give Fleury more work than he probably should have had.
- Gunner Staal

Fair enough. Another benefit of Biron, as I see it, is he's a great guy in the locker room. Very positive, great with the media.

Easy to say without knowing the cap and other pieces, but I'd like to see Shero bring a guy in like Niittymaki or Al Montoya who can start 25 games, and cut Fleury's workload back a bit.
- rival22

Also solid backup options. I was a fan if Niitty while he was in Philly, even if injury prevented his perceived potential. He can take a big share of starts as a backup.

Malkin will never reach the defensive zone levels that Staal can (Selke nomination) but he is far from a liability.
- Gunner Staal

Not so much anymore...but he sure was a couple years back. Geno has rounded his game somewhat. It's nice to debate and go back and forth with this. But I am afraid of losing Staal and not finding a suitable replacement upfront for him. If we can somehow keep all three without using more then 24 mil in cap space we may be ok. I just think Sid will want his money now(who knows when he will need to hang them up). Malkin will get what Sid gets. Staal is worth 5 mil per. Letang is a 6 mil per when his contract is up. In a few years, if we cannot get discounts...that is a lot of money for a very few players. These same players are also not even getting a sniff at the cup right now.

Fair enough. Another benefit of Biron, as I see it, is he's a great guy in the locker room. Very positive, great with the media.
- BulliesPhan87

Hes a good professional and the Sabres have consistently made the mistake of not signing him for a backup job after Biron's status as a starting goalie ended when his Philly tenure went kaput.

Not so much anymore...but he sure was a couple years back. Geno has rounded his game somewhat. It's nice to debate and go back and forth with this. But I am afraid of losing Staal and not finding a suitable replacement upfront for him. If we can somehow keep all three without using more then 24 mil in cap space we may be ok. I just think Sid will want his money now(who knows when he will need to hang them up). Malkin will get what Sid gets. Staal is worth 5 mil per. Letang is a 6 mil per when his contract is up. In a few years, if we cannot get discounts...that is a lot of money for a very few players. These same players are also not even getting a sniff at the cup right now.
- taleisyreXIII

If the Penguins cant keep all three, whichever one goes, you will not find the "replacement" for them. That is why they are considered excellent players.

Letang will get 7M/yr (might not be in PIT depending on Morrow, Despres, Harrington).

Easy to say without knowing the cap and other pieces, but I'd like to see Shero bring a guy in like Niittymaki or Al Montoya who can start 25 games, and cut Fleury's workload back a bit.
- rival22

If we keep MAF for the long run. He NEEDS to play no more then 55-60 games a season. We expect him to start 20-24 more in the post season so we need someone that can play behind him.

If the Penguins cant keep all three, whichever one goes, you will not find the "replacement" for them. That is why they are considered excellent players.

Letang will get 7M/yr (might not be in PIT depending on Morrow, Despres, Harrington).
- Gunner Staal

WE have a replacement ALREADY for Malkin....Sid. We do not have someone that can play Staal's role. Sid can more than carry this team offensively. We have Neal as well for offence. Our PP is terrible with Sid AND Malkin on it anyways. We Need two defence at the back end of it as well. Letang, Weber, Crosby, Neal, Kunitz would look amazing on the PP.

If we keep MAF for the long run. He NEEDS to play no more then 55-60 games a season. We expect him to start 20-24 more in the post season so we need someone that can play behind him.
- taleisyreXIII

Since the lockout, no Cup winning goalie has played more than 60 games with the exception of Fleury (62).

Since the lockout, no Cup winning goalie has played more than 60 games with the exception of Fleury (62).
- Gunner Staal

Very good stat there. Pretty much sums up why MAF may have been so terrible this year. But Quick might beat that, unless Holtby somehow finds a way to win the cup.

WE have a replacement ALREADY for Malkin....Sid. We do not have someone that can play Staal's role. Sid can more than carry this team offensively. We have Neal as well for offence. Our PP is terrible with Sid AND Malkin on it anyways. We Need two defence at the back end of it as well. Letang, Weber, Crosby, Neal, Kunitz would look amazing on the PP.
- taleisyreXIII

Evgeni Malkin in another month will become the 4th player ever to win a Conn Smythe, Hart, Art Ross, and Calder trophy. Yup, thats the guy you want to trade...

Are those 12 points because Biron is that much better, though, or because he was good enough to win behind New York's exceptional defensive team? Just a thought, the extra salary is negligible and I don't know what Johnson will be looking for. Also, I'm still a fan of Marty.
- BulliesPhan87

Not saying it was all due to Biron, but a single W would have given the Penguins the 1st overall seed & Johnson left a few points on the ice over the course of the season. Add to that the fact that Fleury had to play more games than ever before & I think spending an extra $300K on a solid back-up is just worth it.

Evgeni Malkin in another month will become the 4th player ever to win a Conn Smythe, Hart, Art Ross, and Calder trophy. Yup, thats the guy you want to trade...
- Gunner Staal

Hey the sports world revolves around one thing, MONEY. When Wayne Gretzky can be traded in the prime of his career than ANYTHING can and should be looked at.

Gunner, simple question? If(Big mother-effin IF here i know) trading Malkin brought us another cup or two in the end, would you want that? If keeping Malkin meant that he won a few more Art Ross's instead, would you rather this and keep your exciting team?

Gunner, simple question? If(Big mother-effin IF here i know) trading Malkin brought us another cup or two in the end, would you want that? If keeping Malkin meant that he won a few more Art Ross's instead, would you rather this and keep your exciting team?
- taleisyreXIII

Your entire premise is flawed.

If trading Malkin brought two Cups, everyone would do it; No question. But 95% of the Penguins fans on this board would argue that the action you propose is severly disconnected from the outcome you guarentee. It is like saying "If you burn your house to the ground, but end up winning the lottery would you do it?" If you are going to make that statement you have to lay out a path to get from point A (trading Malkin, burning down your house) to point B (winning 2 Cups, winning the lottery) that makes sense.

I don't think that trading either Malkin, or Staal is the answer. High end defensemen become free agents way more often then high end centers.

To be honest I don't believe that you need the same level of defensemen as you do centers. You need more consistant defensemen. I'd have no problem with the Penguins going with Letang and then 5-6 unsexy but steady names.

But I am a firm believer of building through the middle and having the team flow through the players at the center position.

Hey the sports world revolves around one thing, MONEY. When Wayne Gretzky can be traded in the prime of his career than ANYTHING can and should be looked at.
- taleisyreXIII

Im tired of the Gretzky comparisons. It was a different time and he was traded for reasons that had absolutely nothing to do with hockey.

I don't think that trading either Malkin, or Staal is the answer. High end defensemen become free agents way more often then high end centers.

To be honest I don't believe that you need the same level of defensemen as you do centers. You need more consistant defensemen. I'd have no problem with the Penguins going with Letang and then 5-6 unsexy but steady names.

But I am a firm believer of building through the middle and having the team flow through the players at the center position.
- Ben37

I think the Penguins just ran into very poor match-up in the 1st round more than anything else.

The Penguins desire to always push the play forward can lead to a mistake here or there (ie, pushing up ice before the puck is cleared, Dman making risky passes from time to time, etc...). Most teams don't capitalize on each and every mistake because they don't have the offensive skill across the board to do so. But the Flyers do and they did.

The Penguins also play a very passive PK. The box moves quickly & clogs lanes, but doesn't really pressure the puck carrier too aggressively. Against most teams, this method is extremely effective. But the Flyers have a lot of high-skill, L- & R-handed shots that can move the puck quicly and one-time it all over the ice. Passive doesn't work in this case; you need an aggressive PK that pressures the puck carrier & prevents easy passes. Just a bad match-up.

Gunner, simple question? If(Big mother-effin IF here i know) trading Malkin brought us another cup or two in the end, would you want that? If keeping Malkin meant that he won a few more Art Ross's instead, would you rather this and keep your exciting team?
- taleisyreXIII

You'll find that I dont have much interest in entertaining ideas that are 100% fiction based.

I think the Penguins just ran into very poor match-up in the 1st round more than anything else.

The Penguins desire to always push the play forward can lead to a mistake here or there (ie, pushing up ice before the puck is cleared, Dman making risky passes from time to time, etc...). Most teams don't capitalize on each and every mistake because they don't have the offensive skill across the board to do so. But the Flyers do and they did.

The Penguins also play a very passive PK. The box moves quickly & clogs lanes, but doesn't really pressure the puck carrier too aggressively. Against most teams, this method is extremely effective. But the Flyers have a lot of high-skill, L- & R-handed shots that can move the puck quicly and one-time it all over the ice. Passive doesn't work in this case; you need an aggressive PK that pressures the puck carrier & prevents easy passes. Just a bad match-up.
- s0rcerer1984

I agree.

I agree.
- Gunner Staal

Also, I think it bears mentioning that the Penguins essentially lost the series on special teams. Giving up 12PP goals on 23 chances & 2 SH goals really masks how well the Pens were 5v5 against the Flyers for most of the series.