I disagree that Oduya is better defensively. Carle is underrated defensively. Not sure what you mean by in terms of value. Oduya is no where near as good of a player as Carle is.
- MJL

In addition, I'd retract my original statement that their values are similar. Carle has a higher value.

I disagree. Johnny Oduya is a very sturdy defensemen. Solid and unspectacular.

I in no way ment that Carle is an in-adequate defensive player. Carle is under-rated defensively by most.

The 36 give aways and 23 takeaways by Oduya are just superior to Carles 55 giveaways and 18 takeaways. I guess Oduya is just a bit sturdier defensively, if that's the proper way to put it.

Their both tremendous skaters. In reference to hits and blocked shots, they are essentially even.

However, Carle gives you 40 points a season, where as with Oduya your lucky to get 20. So I would say Carle is definitely the superior, all-around defensemen. But Oduya is no slouch, if that's a better way of putting it.
- mochoson

Your being biased here. Your saying that similar numbers in one category makes Oduya superior. But not calling Carle's better blocked shots superior. Carle is the better player, in every facet in my opinion. In fact I don't see them as comparable. Oduya is a #4 defenseman. Carle is a #2.

I have no doubt that the Flyers could get a quality return for JVR. Not saying that I'm advocating tradig him.
- MJL

I want to hold on to him. I want to see what he can do with a healthy season playing with Giroux. I think he will be given every opportunity to replace Jagr on the top line.

I have no doubt that the Flyers could get a quality return for JVR. Not saying that I'm advocating tradig him.
- MJL

i would rather trade read before jvr, but the problem is jvr should have a higher trade value.

So Chris Rooney gets a Game 7 reffing assignment for NYR-WASH. Could be quite interesting to see the league's most thin-skinned ref vs. Tortorella, with whom he has clashed several times (BTW, the Flyers have also had their share of problems with Rooney, including this season).

It has been said of Rooney that he gets the red-ass if anyone questions him. He will not explain calls and he is accused of holding grudges and sticking it to certain teams and coaches.

I hear you, but his contract isn't very friendly right now. He's largely being paid on potential. Some teams won't want to roll the dice, that he becomes a consistent 25+ goal scorer, which he will need to be to validate the contract. There is also his shortcomings defensively to consider.
- PLindbergh31

One thing I want to say about shortcomings defensively. They aren't permanent. A player can work at that and improve in that area. If I'm a talent evaluator, I have no doubt that if JVR stays healthy, he can be a 25+ goal scorer.

Your being biased here. Your saying that similar numbers in one category makes Oduya superior. But not calling Carle's better blocked shots superior. Carle is the better player, in every facet in my opinion. In fact I don't see them as comparable. Oduya is a #4 defenseman. Carle is a #2.
- MJL

I essentially agree, because the bolded is accurate.

I wouldnt say Carle is a better defensive player. They are honestly even. Oduya has lower give-aways were Carle has more blocked shots. Statstically, they aren't far off from one another in most areas.

But Carle gives you the offense, where Oduya, although mobile and somewhat skilled, does not.

So yes, I take Carle over Oduya anyday. And I definitely take him over Wideman.

i would rather trade read before jvr, but the problem is jvr should have a higher trade value.
- mydoglicks

Trading Read is counter-productive. What you'd get for him in a trade is nowhere hear his level of contribution if you keep him + and his ridiculously cheap salary.

I essentially agree, because the bolded is accurate.

I wouldnt say Carle is a better defensive player. They are honestly even. Oduya has lower give-aways were Carle has more blocked shots. Statstically, they aren't far off from one another in most areas.

But Carle gives you the offense, where Oduya, although mobile and somewhat skilled, does not.

So yes, I take Carle over Oduya anyday. And I definitely take him over Wideman.
- mochoson

Oduya isn't on the ice as much as Carle is, nor does he handle the puck as much as Carle does.

So Chris Rooney gets a Game 7 reffing assignment for NYR-WASH. Could be quite interesting to see the league's most thin-skinned ref vs. Tortorella, with whom he has clashed several times (BTW, the Flyers have also had their share of problems with Rooney, including this season).

It has been said of Rooney that he gets the red-ass if anyone questions him. He will not explain calls and he is accused of holding grudges and sticking it to certain teams and coaches.
- bmeltzer

Wouldn't it seem that it would be a smart move for the League to not have a Referee that has a history with one of the teams Head Coaches, officiate a 7th game? So as to not have any semblance of potential perceived controversy.

One thing I want to say about shortcomings defensively. They aren't permanent. A player can work at that and improve in that area. If I'm a talent evaluator, I have no doubt that if JVR stays healthy, he can be a 25+ goal scorer.
- MJL

There is no doubt he "can" improve defensively and "can" become a 25+ goal scorer, but until he does it, it's fair to question.

There is no doubt he "can" improve defensively and "can" become a 25+ goal scorer, but until he does it, it's fair to question.
- PLindbergh31

Well that's what talent evaluating is all about. What you think he "can" become.

Oduya isn't on the ice as much as Carle is, nor does he handle the puck as much as Carle does.
- MJL

Oduya's average TOI reads 20:27. However, I don't know if that's a season average, and if there would be a disparity between how much time he saw in Winnipeg vs. Chicago.

He certainly doesn't handle the puck as much as Carle, but that's honestly dependant on the system and coach.

Oduya has proven he is capable of handling the puck and being a mobile, active dman. He doesn't have anywhere near the abilities offensively that Carle posses' though.

Well that's what talent evaluating is all about. What you think he "can" become.
- MJL

No clue, I have no idea about his work ethic, and his willingness to improve. The talent is there obviously. Evaluating talent isn't an exact science. No way to measure a guys heart. If talent evaluation was that easy, Bill Walsh one of the best their ever was in any sport, wouldn't have said Ryan Leaf would be a better pro than Peyton Manning.

Wouldn't it seem that it would be a smart move for the League to not have a Referee that has a history with one of the teams Head Coaches, officiate a 7th game? So as to not have any semblance of potential perceived controversy.
- MJL

I would think so, too. I was surprised when I saw he's getting the game tonight.

It bears watching. Mind you, I don't think Rooney will be out to deliberately screw the Rangers. But if there are any marginal calls involving Rooney and Rangers ultimately lose, I could see Tortorella insinuating a biased ref after the game tonight.

What you have in Rooney and Torts are two extremely thin-skinned people and, in the emotion of a Game 7, it's a potential powder keg.

I would have thought the NHL would gone with something more like Kelly Sutherland and Paul Devorski since it's the only game in the league tonight.

Oduya's average TOI reads 20:27. However, I don't know if that's a season average, and if there would be a disparity between how much time he saw in Winnipeg vs. Chicago.

He certainly doesn't handle the puck as much as Carle, but that's honestly dependant on the system and coach.

Oduya has proven he is capable of handling the puck and being a mobile, active dman. He doesn't have anywhere near the abilities offensively that Carle posses' though.
- mochoson

Oduya not handling the puck as much as Carle does is dependent on the player himself. Look at Oduya's games played total. That tells you it's a Season average. Carle is the better player in every facet. Including defensively.

No clue, I have no idea about his work ethic, and his willingness to improve. The talent is there obviously. Evaluating talent isn't an exact science. No way to measure a guys heart. If talent evaluation was that easy, Bill Walsh one of the best their ever was in any sport, wouldn't have said Ryan Leaf would be a better pro than Peyton Manning.
- PLindbergh31

That was my point. That it's not an exact science.

I would think so, too. I was surprised when I saw he's getting the game tonight.

It bears watching. Mind you, I don't think Rooney will be out to deliberately screw the Rangers. But if there are any marginal calls involving Rooney and Rangers ultimately lose, I could see Tortorella insinuating a biased ref after the game tonight.

What you have in Rooney and Torts are two extremely thin-skinned people and, in the emotion of a Game 7, it's a potential powder keg.

I would have thought the NHL would gone with something more like Kelly Sutherland and Paul Devorski since it's the only game in the league tonight.
- bmeltzer

I'll tell you. A lot of people don't like Tortorella. But I like him. He cracks me up.

I'll tell you. A lot of people don't like Tortorella. But I like him. He cracks me up.
- MJL

A fantastic representation of the NHL. Squirting fans with water, profanity laced press conferences, and challenging beat writers to fights. Class act.

Oduya not handling the puck as much as Carle does is dependent on the player himself. Look at Oduya's games played total. That tells you it's a Season average. Carle is the better player in every facet. Including defensively.
- MJL

I only agree with the bolded in terms of confidence. A coach can definitely tell a player like Oduya to keep it simple and carry the puck on as few occasions as possible, where as a clearly competent offensive player like Matt Carle is likely told to carry the puck with confidence.

If it's a season average, then 20 minutes is significant ice time. That shows me that two different coachs trusted Oduya enough on the ice almost as much as Lava trusts Carle on the ice.

I dont know how you conclude he's better defensively. I consider them essentailly even, but we'll agree to disagree. Carle is the better player hand down IMO, but as I've previously said, a player like Oduya is no slouch.

Are you good with prospects at all? I was looking to move the discussion blog-wide in that direction. I feel like we talk about guys like Carle and Bryz and JVR to absolute death on here.

Most mocks have Olli Maatta, Jordan Schmaltz, Ludvig Bystrom and Hampus Lindholm being around when the Flyers choose.
- Jsaquella

From someone who's seen all of them play atleast a few times, I can tell you I'd absolutely poop myself if the Flyers got Maata.

I don't expect him to be around past the 15th pick, but the other guy's you listed certainly could be.

Id rank them in the following order.

Maata
Bystrom
Schmaltz
Lindholm

A fantastic representation of the NHL. Squirting fans with water, profanity laced press conferences, and challenging beat writers to fights. Class act.
- PLindbergh31

I have no problem with any of it. How about your Coach jumping up on the bench getting in the other Coaches face? I respect a man who says what's on his mind. Not to mention he's a very good Coach. There's no doubt he's a nut case. And I guess he's the first Coach of a Pro sports team to curse at a press conference.

I only agree with the bolded in terms of confidence. A coach can definitely tell a player like Oduya to keep it simple and carry the puck on as few occasions as possible, where as a clearly competent offensive player like Matt Carle is likely told to carry the puck with confidence.

If it's a season average, then 20 minutes is significant ice time. That shows me that two different coachs trusted Oduya enough on the ice almost as much as Lava trusts Carle on the ice.

I dont know how you conclude he's better defensively. I consider them essentailly even, but we'll agree to disagree. Carle is the better player hand down IMO, but as I've previously said, a player like Oduya is no slouch.

Are you good with prospects at all? I was looking to move the discussion blog-wide in that direction. I feel like we talk about guys like Carle and Bryz and JVR to absolute death on here.
- mochoson

I have no idea about prospects. I couldn't even name one for you. The blog was about Carle.

I have no problem with any of it. How about your Coach jumping up on the bench getting in the other Coaches face? I respect a man who says what's on his mind. Not to mention he's a very good Coach. There's no doubt he's a nut case. And I guess he's the first Coach of a Pro sports team to curse at a press conference.
- MJL

I wouldn't argue that he's a good coach, obviously his resume shows he is.
I don't like the guy based on his behavior, he's an all around unlikable guy. Most people agree with that fact.

I have no idea about prospects. I couldn't even name one for you. The blog was about Carle.
- MJL

Indeed it was, just thought I'd offer up a different topic to discuss as well.

There is no doubt in my mind Carle will be discussed plenty throughout the course of the day.