Ive always liked him, and his nut shot blocking ability, but he is not, and never will be, NHL material.
- jak521

I thought he played well during his time in Philly. Just couldn't score goals to save his life at NHL level (but he has been a fine scorer at every other level, including AHL and international hockey).

Tougher players than most other teams or they drank a lot of milk growing up.

Either way you put it, they play through a lot of bumps and bruises. That isn't lucky at all. They have played this style for more than just this season.
- MidnightMarauder

yea and look what happened in those other seasons, guys were done in through injury. I doubt and hate to say one team is just tougher than everyone else, sure you might have a few players who are in the top of that category but puh-lease, you're gonna tell me to a man, they are tougher? Don't get me wrong Girardi and Callahan are probably the two that come to mind in terms of toughness but Gaborik, Richards and Hagelin don't strike me as tough.

I thought he played well during his time in Philly. Just couldn't score goals to save his life at NHL level (but he has been a fine scorer at every other level, including AHL and international hockey).
- bmeltzer

dime-a-dozen darroll powe-type that we seem to have in spades in our system.

They aren't saying he isnt a good goalie. They say that his, and your whole team's ability to stay healthy is just... vexing.
- RooNosHockey

This is true...it is pretty messed up how they can block that amount of shots and not get injured.

PS - Rags aren't my team...for what that's worth.

You misread the conversation.

The lucky horse shoe had to do with the massive number of shots blocked without significant resulting injury.

Flyers who do that tend to end up with injuries. In the case of Lappy, a career ending one. In the case of many others, broken feet.

EDIT: Oh, I see Marc's post. Well, I have NO idea what HE was thinking!?
- bodiva88

Thanks!

Yes, I've been corrected and address appropriately.


Stupid Juice, read the entire conversation before you reply.

I'll go back to my cave now.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Should Schenn Play Center or Wing?
- bmeltzer

Nice work, Bill. Should the proposed move of "JVR for a defenseman to be loved later" bandied about by (mostly impatient fans) come to pass, Schenn could have a future at LW here.

Any truth to the rumor that Schenn cringes whenever he is shopping and is asked for "correct change?"

I know this is off topic of Schenn but you did mention about Jagr not coming back. I thought this year was a great mix of Youth & Vets. However if Pronger is not due back I feel that Jagr's positition as an elder statesmen becomes more important. If Jagr does not come back for whatever Reason, I hope we look for another Vet rather than Youth we seem to all of a sudden be overflowing with.

Thanks!

Yes, I've been corrected and address appropriately.


Stupid Juice, read the entire conversation before you reply.

I'll go back to my cave now.
- Juice

Well, we have no juice right now, so you probably should stay.

I know this is off topic of Schenn but you did mention about Jagr not coming back. I thought this year was a great mix of Youth & Vets. However if Pronger is not due back I feel that Jagr's positition as an elder statesmen becomes more important. If Jagr does not come back for whatever Reason, I hope we look for another Vet rather than Youth we seem to all of a sudden be overflowing with.
- flyler

i also would like the flyers to add a vet or two... i just hope theyre closer to 30 than 40

By "lucky horse shoe" do you mean "and his consistently year after year top stats regardless of the team in front of him"?
- Juice

yes
frank

You misread the conversation.

The lucky horse shoe had to do with the massive number of shots blocked without significant resulting injury.

Flyers who do that tend to end up with injuries. In the case of Lappy, a career ending one. In the case of many others, broken feet.

EDIT: Oh, I see Marc's post. Well, I have NO idea what HE was thinking!?
- bodiva88

i thought the devils had them last night, their fore check in the second period reminded of the flyers series, the rangers defense looked gassed, and then lundqvist stops parise point blank x3 and the rags score

yuck awful

I can't remember, is that a Stevensism or a Lavaism?

But really, agree so much with this.

And as for the whole buried on the third line, was that true of Primeau who was a third line center when people fell in love with him? Or Brindy who was a third line center when he won the Cup?
- bodiva88

I think Hitch was the guy who liked to use the "bigger bite" metaphor.

dime-a-dozen darroll powe-type that we seem to have in spades in our system.
- OrangeBlack27

Thoresen is a much better offensive player than any of them. In the NHL, he didn't have much offensive confidence. If he were to return to the NHL, it would not surprise me one iota if he became a good secondary scorer for some team in addition to being a good PK player.

It's not unprecedented for NHL role players to go to Europe, rediscover their scoring touch and parlay it into a successful return to the NHL for a few years.

For example, Ville Peltonen was out of the NHL for 5 years (and never had more than 6 goals in an NHL season) before reviving his career in Europe with HC Lugano and Finland's Jokerit Helsinki. Upon his return to the NHL, he scored 17 goals in his first campaign with the Florida Panthers. Much like Thoresen, Peltonen had been a top-end scorer everywhere BUT the NHL.

Well, we have no juice right now, so you probably should stay.
- bodiva88

Go onnnnnnn.....

Thoresen is a much better offensive player than any of them. In the NHL, he didn't have much offensive confidence. If he were to return to the NHL, it would not surprise me one iota if he became a good secondary scorer for some team in addition to being a good PK player.

It's not unprecedented for NHL role players to go to Europe, rediscover their scoring touch and parlay it into a successful return to the NHL for a few years.

For example, Ville Peltonen was out of the NHL for 5 years (and never had more than 6 goals in an NHL season) before reviving his career in Europe with HC Lugano and Finland's Jokerit Helsinki. Upon his return to the NHL, he scored 17 goals in his first campaign with the Florida Panthers. Much like Thoresen, Peltonen had been a top-end scorer everywhere BUT the NHL.
- bmeltzer

If it wasn't for the 50 contract issue. It might be worth a shot.

Thoresen is a much better offensive player than any of them. In the NHL, he didn't have much offensive confidence. If he were to return to the NHL, it would not surprise me one iota if he became a good secondary scorer for some team in addition to being a good PK player.

It's not unprecedented for NHL role players to go to Europe, rediscover their scoring touch and parlay it into a successful return to the NHL for a few years.

For example, Ville Peltonen was out of the NHL for 5 years (and never had more than 6 goals in an NHL season) before reviving his career in Europe with HC Lugano and Finland's Jokerit Helsinki. Upon his return to the NHL, he scored 17 goals in his first campaign with the Florida Panthers. Much like Thoresen, Peltonen had been a top-end scorer everywhere BUT the NHL.
- bmeltzer

I loved Thoresen.
Big heart.

i thought the devils had them last night, their fore check in the second period reminded of the flyers series, the rangers defense looked gassed, and then lundqvist stops parise point blank x3 and the rags score

yuck awful
- Marc D

That was crazy. The King gave Parise absolutely no where to shoot except directly into him.

Some thoughts on the stats used to back up Briere's apparent negative contribution b/c his +/- exceeds his ppg and so on.
1. First, Briere's points tend to be those in which he played a really pivotal role in the goal. Almost half his points are goals, and rarely does he get secondary assists. Meaning he is probably a key contributor in say 75% of the goals scored.
2. However, Briere is probably one the culprit in the goals scored against only 25% of the times. Just because he is hovering near the blue line does not mean he is responsible for the breakdown.
3. Briere is not the only playoff stud (around 1 ppg or more in playoffs) with a negative +/-. He is joined by Toewes, Kane, Brad Richards, and Stamkos (small sample, but still not a great defensive player). Yes, I know Toews is a very good 2 way player, but so was Sakic (also in the negative column over career in playoffs). Scott Hartnell has a far lower ppg and a significantly worse +/- in the post-season. So does Mike Richards. Eric Staal makes a lot more money and his career ps stats prorate to very similar to Briere's.
4. Briere was the biggest reason after Pronger we went to game 6 of SCF in '10.

I loved Thoresen.
Big heart.
- Marc D

I don't think he has the "cohones" that it takes to play NHL hockey....

Some thoughts on the stats used to back up Briere's apparent negative contribution b/c his +/- exceeds his ppg and so on.
1. First, Briere's points tend to be those in which he played a really pivotal role in the goal. Almost half his points are goals, and rarely does he get secondary assists. Meaning he is probably a key contributor in say 75% of the goals scored.
2. However, Briere is probably one the culprit in the goals scored against only 25% of the times. Just because he is hovering near the blue line does not mean he is responsible for the breakdown.
3. Briere is not the only playoff stud (around 1 ppg or more in playoffs) with a negative +/-. He is joined by Toewes, Kane, Brad Richards, and Stamkos (small sample, but still not a great defensive player). Yes, I know Toews is a very good 2 way player, but so was Sakic (also in the negative column over career in playoffs). Scott Hartnell has a far lower ppg and a significantly worse +/- in the post-season. So does Mike Richards. Eric Staal makes a lot more money and his career ps stats prorate to very similar to Briere's.
4. Briere was the biggest reason after Pronger we went to game 6 of SCF in '10.
- PT21

All decent points, but in a cap world, when you have 7-8 players capable of playing center at a fraction of the price, you want you high priced players to be a positive impact, with no negative impact.

I like Briere, but unless Timonen retires, i think we could definately use the cap space, and give our young guys oppertunity to fill thier roles.

I don't know why, but I think its a done fact they are moving guys. With Pronger being out, Timonen on his last year, and might not be ready for camp/ start of the season... They have to make some kind of insurance move. Whether its a semi cap dump like JVR for a decent young d-man and a top pick in this draft and sign Suter, or what have you... But I think something is going to be done.
- RooNosHockey

I hope they don't trade JVR simply as a salary dump. The only way I trade him is for bonafide NHL player, IMO. I just wouldn't want to lose him to make salary room. Not sure that's what you were suggesting, just my opinion.

All decent points, but in a cap world, when you have 7-8 players capable of playing center at a fraction of the price, you want you high priced players to be a positive impact, with no negative impact.

I like Briere, but unless Timonen retires, i think we could definately use the cap space, and give our young guys oppertunity to fill thier roles.
- RooNosHockey

Opportunity cuts both ways. You may end up with a more solid defensive player who can't score clutch goals like Briere can. Then we will moan for him.

I think Briere's ability to score big goals is a rare asset that we are lucky to have. The team needs to do a much better job of planning around his liability rather than shuttling him all over the place. They need to put him in as the 2nd line center, give him steady, reasonably defensive wingers and stick with it, even if sometimes things look rocky.

I like Briere, but unless Timonen retires, i think we could definately use the cap space, and give our young guys oppertunity to fill thier roles.
- RooNosHockey

IMO, that's a good way to turn into a big-market version of the Edmonton Oilers. You need a mix of veterans -- including A couple ones in their mid-30s -- and young players in key roles. Too much youth equals flashes of potential but inability to compete with the big boys.

Also, there is no one the Flyers could bring in with that cap space who would produce as much in big games as Briere, or have a better understanding of what it takes to succeed in Philadelphia (or have more appreciation for playing and living here, either).

All decent points, but in a cap world, when you have 7-8 players capable of playing center at a fraction of the price, you want you high priced players to be a positive impact, with no negative impact.

I like Briere, but unless Timonen retires, i think we could definately use the cap space, and give our young guys oppertunity to fill thier roles.
- RooNosHockey

There is no such thing as a player who has no negative impact at any point.

IMO, that's a good way to turn into a big-market version of the Edmonton Oilers. You need a mix of veterans -- including A couple ones in their mid-30s -- and young players in key roles. Too much youth equals flashes of potential but inability to compete with the big boys.

Also, there is no one the Flyers could bring in with that cap space who would produce as much in big games as Briere, or have a better understanding of what it takes to succeed in Philadelphia (or have more appreciation for playing and living here, either).
- bmeltzer

Well said Bill.