I think buffalo may have been the only team that was willing to pay him that much. You can't pay for what you don't know so lying for future production is impossible. You have to pay for what they've done and take into account what you think they can do and I think this is generally how it's done. Do you get hired for a job based on experience and a resume or what you tell them you are going to accomplish later?
- funmaster18

You get hired based on who you know, not what you know imo.

You get hired based on who you know, not what you know imo.
- stveshdy

Leino is my example above.
- stveshdy

I think Leino was paid based on hopeful future production as you are saying, and not based on 1 decent year with the flyers.

You get hired based on who you know, not what you know imo.
- stveshdy

Sometimes, yes.

Sometimes, yes.
- funmaster18

In my experience it happens more often than not.

Of course. Leino's contract is terrible but that's because of the market. Kopecky signed that deal with Florida and that set the bar for average, aging, mostly unproven wingers. I think most guys are overpaid except superstars like Crosby, Malkin, Giroux, etc. It's just a matter of how badly they were overpaid.
- NickTheKid87

Deals like Leino's leads directly into the discussion I was having the other day which is why your DONT pay players based on:

1 One Good Year
2 Market Value

Doesn't matter how important or irreplacable a guy is. You should only be paying for what they contribute, not what other people think they are worth. I think the Eagles have done a good job of thise over the years, except for Dawkins.

I think Leino was paid based on hopeful future production as you are saying, and not based on 1 decent year with the flyers.
- funmaster18

I don't think this is a one way or the other scenario. Some guys get paid for the future (Leino, JVR), some get paid for the past (Leighton) while some get paid for the past and future (Briere).

I think Leino was paid based on hopeful future production as you are saying, and not based on 1 decent year with the flyers.
- funmaster18

You can get that same production from a number of players that were on the market for cheaper. People that do scouting and spend time in the organization doing their research should be able to seperate the difference on expectations, imo of course.

I don't think this is a one way or the other scenario. Some guys get paid for the future (Leino, JVR), some get paid for the past (Leighton) while some get paid for the past and future (Briere).
- NickTheKid87

Honestly, I think both are taken into account for any player and contract.

You can get that same production from a number of players that were on the market for cheaper. People that do scouting and spend time in the organization doing their research should be able to seperate the difference on expectations, imo of course.
- stveshdy

Bad deals happen, it's the nature of the beast and the stupidity of some GMs.

Deals like Leino's leads directly into the discussion I was having the other day which is why your DONT pay players based on:

1 One Good Year
2 Market Value

Doesn't matter how important or irreplacable a guy is. You should only be paying for what they contribute, not what other people think they are worth. I think the Eagles have done a good job of thise over the years, except for Dawkins.
- RooNosHockey

I agree when it comes to the Flyers and signing market value contracts but that doesn't work league wide. If Team A wants the same player as Team B than the price will go up. That's just the principles of supply and demand at work.

Honestly, I think both are taken into account for any player and contract.
- funmaster18

I think on the whole, definitely. Sometimes though, like with JVR, they gave him that extension and raise because of future production. But definitely I'd say the vast majority of the time they look at both.

Bad deals happen, it's the nature of the beast and the stupidity of some GMs.
- funmaster18

That part I agree with. Bad deals happen when you overpay for a player thats not worth his production. Now some of that has to do with doing your homework and scouting. Will it be perfect? Nope. Teams that overspend are usually big market teams that are willing to take that chance.

I think on the whole, definitely. Sometimes though, like with JVR, they gave him that extension and raise because of future production. But definitely I'd say the vast majority of the time they look at both.
- NickTheKid87

But I understand that move because hes a 22 year old kid & #2 pick (younger when he signed the extension) and has great potential and upside.

But I understand that move because hes a 22 year old kid (younger when he signed the extension) and has great potential and upside.
- stveshdy

Yes that's a completely understandable signing. Leino's was silly even before he suited up for the Sabres.

Yes that's a completely understandable signing. Leino's was silly even before he suited up for the Sabres.
- NickTheKid87

Detroit doesn't let diamonds in the rough slip away very often, especially not for guys like OKT.

Detroit doesn't let diamonds in the rough slip away very often, especially not for guys like OKT.
- funmaster18

Didn't really hurt Detroit that much though in the long run.

Didn't really hurt Detroit that much though in the long run.
- NickTheKid87

What I mean is if Leino really was a 4.5 million dollar player, Detroit would not have traded him for pennies.

Yes that's a completely understandable signing. Leino's was silly even before he suited up for the Sabres.
- NickTheKid87

Lets look at it.

He was healthier than any player during the playoffs from playing minimal during the year. It took a Carter injury for him to even get into the lineup.

The following year he has a decent season but not like his playoff run. He continues to have hip issues.

So lets sign him to a huge contract based on what? 1yr and 1playoff? Crazy.

What I mean is if Leino really was a 4.5 million dollar player, Detroit would not have traded him for pennies.
- funmaster18

Oooooooh ok. I agree with that. Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Howard are proof of that.

Lets look at it.

He was healthier than any player during the playoffs from playing minimal during the year. It took a Carter injury for him to even get into the lineup.

The following year he has a decent season but not like his playoff run. He continues to have hip issues.

So lets sign him to a huge contract based on what? 1yr and 1playoff? Crazy.
- stveshdy

To be fair, his not getting into the lineup right away was more a product of Laviolette not changing what ain't broke, IIRC.

Lets look at it.

He was healthier than any player during the playoffs from playing minimal during the year. It took a Carter injury for him to even get into the lineup.

The following year he has a decent season but not like his playoff run. He continues to have hip issues.

So lets sign him to a huge contract based on what? 1yr and 1playoff? Crazy.
- stveshdy

That was the market though. Buffalo wanted him enough and that was the price it cost to get him. Otherwise he may have been back in Philly. Personally and didn't want him back.

Oooooooh ok. I agree with that. Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Howard are proof of that.
- NickTheKid87

Obviously some guys blossom later, but Detroit usually has a good nose for that.

Good afternoon and welcome to the Nick, Steve, and Fun show!

Good afternoon and welcome to the Nick, Steve, and Fun show!
- funmaster18

It's good to be here. I've been posting since 9 AM. This gets me through the work day.