If I were the owners one thing I would try to get rid of would be the floor.
- Al

not sure where i read it, but one team is going to have to spend something like $30M to get to the floor. I think it was colorado. Granted, they have a lot of RFA's, so part of that money is already ear-marked for elsewhere. Even still...that's a lot of dough to pass around.

ok, Mr. Kane, sr.
- furso27

I understand how it came off that way, but when this is the case I think it does play a role in his behavior. It's hard for a kid to stand up there next to JT who is the Captain, Conn Smythe Winner, Gold Medalist, etc. Kane is like the frustrated little brother that cant ever beat or get out of the shadow of the older brother. Everyone who watches the Hawks knows the skill set he brings, id like to see one season where Q lets him play with the same to guys for more than a month.

Interesting quote from the article about Lidstrom...

"He never hit you, he's never played physical, but you can never get to the net, you can never get around him. He had such a great stick.

hmmmmmmm....
- Beaver-Warrior

I don't think this is an endorsement of the "dark" side of the active stick philosophy (ie, never engaging physically). Really it is just acknowledging the fact that the stick, the boards, the net, and (as far as the rules allow) other players are ALL things that should can be used by a smart defenseman to take space away from opponents.

I think there is a very valid beef that some (including myself) have with the Hawks failure to clear the front of their net, and those who say it's part of the "active stick" philosophy. Look no further than two of Lidstrom's better teammates—Kronwall and Stuart— who not only use their bodies but their sticks (in a basically illegal way)— to clear the front of the net.

It has to be tied to revenue sharing and revenue sharing (unlike MLB) must force the receiving teams to actually use their incoming monies from RS on payroll, not pocket it like MLB teams Pgh and KC presently do.
- blackhawk24

i agree. you can't have a cap and no floor. that was part of the argument in the last CBA. i remember Roenick being an advocate of a floor (if there was a cap). yet, i'm not sure how it helps the overall health of some teams to spend $20-30M just to get to a point where they can compete. Great for the players union.

If I were the owners one thing I would try to get rid of would be the floor.
- Al

Absolutely I agree the owners would want to dump the floor.

But, would the players accept that since that would lead to less money overall to the players? Part of the limit compromise was the floor to keep money going to the players.

Some other compromise would have to take the place of the floor I would think.

I understand how it came off that way, but when this is the case I think it does play a role in his behavior. It's hard for a kid to stand up there next to JT who is the Captain, Conn Smythe Winner, Gold Medalist, etc. Kane is like the frustrated little brother that cant ever beat or get out of the shadow of the older brother. Everyone who watches the Hawks knows the skill set he brings, id like to see one season where Q lets him play with the same to guys for more than a month.
- nickmo2699

You cant compare him to JT. He is in a class of guys like Yzerman and Messier. However, there is a pattern of behavior here that you can look at. If his partying is effecting his play and preparation then that is a major issue. Just as it would you or I in our jobs. I am not standing on some moral soap box clamoring for them to trade him because he drinks too much. I think they should trade him in a deal for Rick Nash because it would make the Hawks better. I really don't think any other deal, except maybe a Getzlaf deal, makes sense to trade Kane.

Spector made a great comment this morning about Suter playing in Detroit.

Basically saying he may not want to play in Detroit because he'll always be compared to Lidstrom as the guy who took over, a lot of pressure with that.
- pri$ey

I agree, thinking the same myself this morning. Suter is a very, very good player. But he will not be Lidstrom, and that is a fact.

And the Detroit fans, if not the organization, will in many ways be counting on him to be Lidstrom, Part Deux. It is all part of the unavoidable dropoff in talent they will experience over then ext five years, even if they are trying to avoid acknowledging it.

If Parise is the eventual "replacement" for Datsyuk, albeit at W instead of C, same thing.

And that will be the thinking and the expectation in Detroit.

While all of this makes sense, it still seems like the smaller market teams will cry foul, just like in MLB.

It appears to me the real way to make a cap/floor concept work is to have a strong revenue-sharing system. That second part is where Rocky would get unhappy but if the league wants parity, they have to consider this.

If not, then get rid of all of it and let the teams do what they want. But then the league has to more strongly consider re-location or the dreaded contraction.
- blackhawk24

At first blush the smaller mkts would cry but...

If large contracts could be moved wherby the selling team was able to absorb a portion of the contract and not suffer cap consequences that could even things up.

In that way a larger contract like Hossa for example could be dealt and the selling team would assume a part of the salary but not the cap hit....

Similar to baseball in some ways so then a smaller mkt team could attract big name players without breaking the bank...

The point about overall revenue sharing growing is valid and will take awhile...

As far as Rocky and other bigger mkt owners....The league which runs the best is the NFL and there is a socialistic type of system their...The big support the small but they make it work so everyone benefits.

Also, ALs point is probably the best...he will always be good; but he will only be great ....Made a comment on XM the other day when asked about the drive of Kane and Keith..

I said there is a difference between being very good and great....Both have the chance to be great but there are reasons why many fall short of achieving that level.

But if they get to the highest level they will be considered great in Chgo long after their playing days end...
- Al

I didn't hear your piece, Al. But I think there is a big difference in the drive of Kane and Keith. BIG.

Kane was born with a ton of talent above his shoulders and Keith with a ton below his shoulders. But I think Keith has worked much harder however on the mental part of his game than Kane has on the physical part of his. And Keith has also worked hard physically.

When Keith won the Norris, it was no fluke. And there is a similarity between these two guys in that they both thrive when surrounded with the right players, as Keith was in 09-10.

But Keith has evidenced a much greater capacity for hard work and sacrifice in order to get better, IMO.

You cant compare him to JT. He is in a class of guys like Yzerman and Messier. However, there is a pattern of behavior here that you can look at. If his partying is effecting his play and preparation then that is a major issue. Just as it would you or I in our jobs. I am not standing on some moral soap box clamoring for them to trade him because he drinks too much. I think they should trade him in a deal for Rick Nash because it would make the Hawks better. I really don't think any other deal, except maybe a Getzlaf deal, makes sense to trade Kane.
- furso27

Agree 1000% my only worry/issue is his age and what MAY come of the move we make. Honestly, I would much rather look to Pittsburgh for Staal or maybe even LA for Dustin Brown. Even thought the Kings are rolling and are possibly going to win it all, they still do struggle scoring and I can see them moving Brown and letting Richards be the guy who IMO has really turned it around.

not sure where i read it, but one team is going to have to spend something like $30M to get to the floor. I think it was colorado. Granted, they have a lot of RFA's, so part of that money is already ear-marked for elsewhere. Even still...that's a lot of dough to pass around.
- eburgio

...Like Florida last year, but at least they got to the playoffs.

I didn't hear your piece, Al. But I think there is a big difference in the drive of Kane and Keith. BIG.

Kane was born with a ton of talent above his shoulders and Keith with a ton below his shoulders. But I think Keith has worked much harder however on the mental part of his game than Kane has on the physical part of his. And Keith has also worked hard physically.

When Keith won the Norris, it was no fluke. And there is a similarity between these two guys in that they both thrive when surrounded with the right players, as Keith was in 09-10.

But Keith has evidenced a much greater capacity for hard work and sacrifice in order to get better, IMO.
- John Jaeckel

This !

Very well said JJ I agree.

I didn't hear your piece, Al. But I think there is a big difference in the drive of Kane and Keith. BIG.

Kane was born with a ton of talent above his shoulders and Keith with a ton below his shoulders. But I think Keith has worked much harder however on the mental part of his game than Kane has on the physical part of his. And Keith has also worked hard physically.

When Keith won the Norris, it was no fluke. And there is a similarity between these two guys in that they both thrive when surrounded with the right players, as Keith was in 09-10.

But Keith has evidenced a much greater capacity for hard work and sacrifice in order to get better, IMO.
- John Jaeckel

Agree partially.

Keith has a very strong Work ethic, but he is older and they play different positions. When we saw Kaner at the Convention last summer he had gotten bulked up quite a bit. I think they both have tremendous skill at their respective positions, but where I agree most is that they are limited due to the situation they are presented with on this roster. Kane needs a big physical Lucic like player on his line. Keith needs a D-man that can help him shave down his minutes. He plays well with Seabrook and we have seen issues on the behalf of Keith when they dont play together, the 3-4 guy they pick up this off season could help return Keith to the Norris Convo.

Agree 1000% my only worry/issue is his age and what MAY come of the move we make. Honestly, I would much rather look to Pittsburgh for Staal or maybe even LA for Dustin Brown. Even thought the Kings are rolling and are possibly going to win it all, they still do struggle scoring and I can see them moving Brown and letting Richards be the guy who IMO has really turned it around.
- nickmo2699

Cup teams usually don't dump their Captain even though the Flyers did....

Especially when Brown is at the top of his game...

With Sutter the Kings offense was fine and they sit in great shape for next year....They have cap space and could resign Quick sooner.

At first blush the smaller mkts would cry but...

If large contracts could be moved wherby the selling team was able to absorb a portion of the contract and not suffer cap consequences that could even things up.

In that way a larger contract like Hossa for example could be dealt and the selling team would assume a part of the salary but not the cap hit....

Similar to baseball in some ways so then a smaller mkt team could attract big name players without breaking the bank...

- Al

I'll re-bring up a crazy concept from MLS where you can trade cap space.

Keep the concept that the floor/cap is supposed to support in that league wide salary is within a certain range.

Smaller market teams can trade off some cap space to larger market teams and stock up on young (cheaper) players and draft picks.

Smart smaller market teams can manage this to be competitive at a smaller salary.

Helps the players because the same amount of money is floating around. And perhaps some big contracts don't end up in the AHL because the larger revenue teams can grab some cap space.

Cap space is also awarded to team in certain situations for missing the playoffs or losing a star player. But, maybe that's going to far.

Doubt the NHL would go for anything that radical. But, I like the thought process around it.

Agree partially.

Keith has a very strong Work ethic, but he is older and they play different positions. When we saw Kaner at the Convention last summer he had gotten bulked up quite a bit. I think they both have tremendous skill at their respective positions, but where I agree most is that they are limited due to the situation they are presented with on this roster. Kane needs a big physical Lucic like player on his line. Keith needs a D-man that can help him shave down his minutes. He plays well with Seabrook and we have seen issues on the behalf of Keith when they dont play together, the 3-4 guy they pick up this off season could help return Keith to the Norris Convo.
- nickmo2699

I agree about Keith and I agree with JJ and said so...He has been leaned on too much.

The point I made is both could be HOF players but there is a difference between very good and great....Some players always remain a step below great and others find a way to take the next step.

I'll re-bring up a crazy concept from MLS where you can trade cap space.

Keep the concept that the floor/cap is supposed to support in that league wide salary is within a certain range.

Smaller market teams can trade off some cap space to larger market teams and stock up on young (cheaper) players and draft picks.

Smart smaller market teams can manage this to be competitive at a smaller salary.

Helps the players because the same amount of money is floating around. And perhaps some big contracts don't end up in the AHL because the larger revenue teams can grab some cap space.

Cap space is also awarded to team in certain situations for missing the playoffs or losing a star player. But, maybe that's going to far.

Doubt the NHL would go for anything that radical. But, I like the thought process around it.
- shruew

Good points but my worry is there isn't enough time to put in things we suggested.

I would like to see a basic agreement done without a work stoppage and then somehow it could be modified over the next year.

Article on ESPN: Jesse Rogers Q and A.

http://espn.go.com/blog/c...hould-the-hawks-deal-kane

At first blush the smaller mkts would cry but...

If large contracts could be moved wherby the selling team was able to absorb a portion of the contract and not suffer cap consequences that could even things up.

In that way a larger contract like Hossa for example could be dealt and the selling team would assume a part of the salary but not the cap hit....

Similar to baseball in some ways so then a smaller mkt team could attract big name players without breaking the bank...

The point about overall revenue sharing growing is valid and will take awhile...

As far as Rocky and other bigger mkt owners....The league which runs the best is the NFL and there is a socialistic type of system their...The big support the small but they make it work so everyone benefits.
- Al

I'd also like to see a system in place that rewards teams that draft and develop their own talent by allowing them to sign players they have drafted with a lower cap hit than players signed as a FA or traded for. Players would still be able to sign with the highest bidder but at least the team that drafted them would be able to have a chance to retain players instead of loosing them solely because of the cap.

I'd also like to see a system in place that rewards teams that draft and develop their own talent by allowing them to sign players they have drafted with a lower cap hit than players signed as a FA or traded for. Players would still be able to sign with the highest bidder but at least the team that drafted them would be able to have a chance to retain players instead of loosing them solely because of the cap.
- jhawk159

Many things could be done and changes can be made to benefit both sides and fans...]

Need to make the process such so meaningful change has time to happen.

Too much of the last agreement looks as if thrown together over a long weekend and in a panic....Which was probably the case.

I'd also like to see a system in place that rewards teams that draft and develop their own talent by allowing them to sign players they have drafted with a lower cap hit than players signed as a FA or traded for. Players would still be able to sign with the highest bidder but at least the team that drafted them would be able to have a chance to retain players instead of loosing them solely because of the cap.
- jhawk159

Exactly!This way,for instance the Hawks would have been able to keep someone like Buff for a smaller cap hit

Many things could be done and changes can be made to benefit both sides and fans...]

Need to make the process such so meaningful change has time to happen.

Too much of the last agreement looks as if thrown together over a long weekend and in a panic....Which was probably the case.
- Al

Hi Al!

Is it true that as of right now the cap ceiling is 70.3mil? I read that if the owners get the players to take a cut from 57% down to 50% that the cap ceiling could drop to 63mil..the thing I don't get is,if the ceiling is now 70.3 and say it drops to 63,how would a team that spent to 70.3 be expected to get under 63? Would they havr to trade players or stash them in the AHL?

Article on ESPN: Jesse Rogers Q and A.

http://espn.go.com/blog/c...hould-the-hawks-deal-kane
- nickmo2699

Thanks for the link. Lots of fan disappointment with Stan. Not surprising.

Thanks for the link. Lots of fan disappointment with Stan. Not surprising.
- Lido_Shuffle

Sorry double post

Thanks for the link. Lots of fan disappointment with Stan. Not surprising.
- Lido_Shuffle

And it also sounds like next year's team is the same as last year's minus OD and Bruno, while adding rookies.

Typical StanBow conservatism. He must not think sizing up or adding any new good FAs is required.

You watch - StanBow will not spend to the $70.3MM. He's going to stay at $64.3MM.

That = FAIL to me.