Wanna blog? Start your own hockey blog with My HockeyBuzz. Register for free today!
 
Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Flyers Won't Draft by Position
Author Message
bradleyc4
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: the jewelry is still out
Joined: 01.16.2007

Jun 1 @ 9:58 AM ET
Considering that Kimmo's up at the end of next season, does anyone know who the top UFAs are in 2013?
- GeorgeBailey


http://www.capgeek.com/fr...sition_id=-1&fa_type_id=2
PLindbergh31
Location: NJ
Joined: 02.01.2008

Jun 1 @ 9:59 AM ET
Pierre Mcguire was on WFAN radio yesterday for an hour, and took calls from fans. Was pretty cool.

He said look for Anaheim to be unable to sign Justin Schultz, and for Schultz to end up with the NYR. Pierre said the kid is NHL ready right now, and is a can't miss top pairing guy. Just what the Rags need to add to Mcdonagh, Staal, Girardi, and Del Zotto.
bradleyc4
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: the jewelry is still out
Joined: 01.16.2007

Jun 1 @ 10:00 AM ET
nor would I.

If I am moving JvR, its for a more well rounded guy.

- jak521


I love JVR. But I would trade him for Enstrom. He's small, but as well-rounded as they come. He's in a similar situation as Ryan Suter (with Weber and Byfuglien).

(edit: I see that Enstrom is a UFA after this upcoming season, so that changes things)
Bill Meltzer
Editor
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 07.13.2006

Jun 1 @ 10:00 AM ET
Bill,

Good job(s) as usual.

Do you feel any team drafts and develops defenseman better than most others (i.e. Devils)? The Flyers haven't drafted, developed, and maintained too many good ones over the years. However, I think we all agree that this isn't the end of the world.

If you had to rank the top 3 d-men over the last 5 - 10 years, who would they be? I'll go Chara, Pronger, Lindstrom.

- Daman


If you go 10 years out, I'd say 1) Lidström, 2)Pronger, 3) Niedermayer.

If you go only 5 years out, I'd say 1) Chara, 2) Lidström, 3) Weber.


Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

Jun 1 @ 10:00 AM ET
Parise Career points 502 194 216 410
Carter Career points 516 202 175 377

Pretty comparable I would say and not like Carter was a dud at 11. If we are really getting technical we missed out on Corey Perry as well who went 29 and we took Richards just before him. So yes deep draft that year

- Daceroni


Sorry, I'll have to go back and see where I said Carter was a dud....OK, never did.

Parise was much more highly touted during the year leading up to their draft, and when he was available, I wanted the Flyers to select him. Carter wasn't totally out of left field, but Parise was more of a sure bet in the eyes of most analysts and experts.

Also, Parise plays in New Jersey, in a far less offensively aggressive system than Carter played in during most of his time with the Flyers.
jak521
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Buckle Up.
Joined: 02.19.2008

Jun 1 @ 10:00 AM ET
Considering that Kimmo's up at the end of next season, does anyone know who the top UFAs are in 2013?
- GeorgeBailey

There are a few big names, like Edler and Enstrom, but no Charas or guys in the top level.

Douglas Murray is another name... There are a bunch of guys who could make reliable 4-6 d-men.
RooNosHockey
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bear, DE
Joined: 10.25.2011

Jun 1 @ 10:01 AM ET
Very often with defensemen, unless a team is willing to live with up to five years of growing pains from his draft year to his third or fourth pro season, it will be the defenseman's SECOND NHL organization that reaps the benefits.

The Flyers simply are not willing to wait that long, so they pull the plug on a lot of young defensemen. But they've also been the beneficiaries a few times of other teams dealing too soon, such as acquiring Coburn right at the point where he was finally ready to compete for a full-time NHL job.

- bmeltzer


Yea, but Bill. How many of the Defenseman the Flyers drafted have turned out to be above average NHL defenseman after the Flyers gave up on them? Maybe Pitkanen? Maybe Niinimaa? They are average, but I dont think the FLyers gave up really special players... Not like islanders trading Chara...
Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

Jun 1 @ 10:01 AM ET
nor would I.

If I am moving JvR, its for a more well rounded guy.

- jak521


He is a pretty well rounded guy, but I worry about his size and that he tends to get worn down.
Tomahawk
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner bandwagon. Grab 'em by the Corsi.
Joined: 02.04.2009

Jun 1 @ 10:03 AM ET
Very often with defensemen, unless a team is willing to live with up to five years of growing pains from his draft year to his third or fourth pro season, it will be the defenseman's SECOND NHL organization that reaps the benefits.
- bmeltzer



It's tied to their goaltending, too. Teams like the Rangers and Predators can live with mistakes from young D because they've traditionally had great goaltending to cover up any mishaps. We know the Flyers haven't exactly had that luxury.

The team's incredible streak of selecting impact forwards in the mid-late 1st-round should be enough to dispel the notion that they'll be drafting by position.

Claude Giroux > Bobby Sanguinetti.
PLindbergh31
Location: NJ
Joined: 02.01.2008

Jun 1 @ 10:03 AM ET
This seems to be a fairly deep draft. The Pronger injury had a significant trickle down effect on this franchise, had he not been injured Flyers would likely still have both second round picks. The trade for Grossmann was a good one, as Flyers were able to lock him up, but the Kubina trade simply looks horrific right now.
funmaster18
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz and I'm fine.
Joined: 03.15.2009

Jun 1 @ 10:03 AM ET
Because a lot of police officers don't know the law. This wasn't the first time a ticket happy clown tried to write me up for something that isn't illegal. Also, I have 4 uncles, a step dad, 2 cousins, and 5 other extended family members who are in law enforcement.

As the boy scouts say, be prepared.

- Jsaquella


Is this the only law you carry with you or do you have many print outs?
phi1671
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 08.06.2007

Jun 1 @ 10:04 AM ET
Great blog.

Don't know the source but saw a recent commentary saying a team should never use a first round pick to take a Dman unless it was for a #1 guy like a Doughty or Karlsson who had clear offensive upside. Great, stay at home Dmen are slow to develop and guys like Chara, Weber and Lidstrom often only begin to show their offensive edge once they get their defensive game in place.

The same comment suggested that you never waste an early round pick on a goalie. There will always be an exception (Cary Price). But, most top prospect goalies never actually make it to the elite level. On the other hand, if you look at the top goalies, how many we're taken in the late rounds.

A team should use their early picks to draft kids who can see and anticipate the game, who can skate, have size and good hand/eye coordination.

- Daman


I read Bill's blog and that's it...
overall outside of maybe the top 20 and even then it's a true crap shoot. It's all about needs.
Each team is different with how they draft.
Instead of adding, it's always something about disagreeing or adding questions to the fire...not worth having yourself get banned.
jak521
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Buckle Up.
Joined: 02.19.2008

Jun 1 @ 10:04 AM ET
I love JVR. But I would trade him for Enstrom. He's small, but as well-rounded as they come. He's in a similar situation as Ryan Suter (with Weber and Byfuglien).
- bradleyc4

I disagree B-rad... I know he isnt a Mike Green, but he also isnt a guy like Letang. I want a guy who can bring it offensively, but is better in his own end.
Bill Meltzer
Editor
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 07.13.2006

Jun 1 @ 10:04 AM ET
Pierre Mcguire was on WFAN radio yesterday for an hour, and took calls from fans. Was pretty cool.

He said look for Anaheim to be unable to sign Justin Schultz, and for Schultz to end up with the NYR. Pierre said the kid is NHL ready right now, and is a can't miss top pairing guy. Just what the Rags need to add to Mcdonagh, Staal, Girardi, and Del Zotto.

- PLindbergh31


Schultz/Del Zotto would be pretty redundant, IMO. They both play the same sort of role.

I give Del Zotto huge credit for remaking his game -- he was considered very suspect defensively when he came into the NHL. It remains to be seen if Schultz could be a good fit in Tortorella's system. Right now, I don't think he can. I think he'd spend a lot of time as a healthy scratch his first NHL season if he played for the Rangers.



Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

Jun 1 @ 10:04 AM ET
Yea, but Bill. How many of the Defenseman the Flyers drafted have turned out to be above average NHL defenseman after the Flyers gave up on them? Maybe Pitkanen? Maybe Niinimaa? They are average, but I dont think the FLyers gave up really special players... Not like islanders trading Chara...
- RooNosHockey


Pitkanen, Niinimaa, Seidenberg. You can probably add Sbisa in there, as well, although getting Pronger was big.

That said, given the Flyers history of drafting defensemen, what gives you confidence that they'll draft John Carlson and not Colten Tuebert or Thomas Hickey?
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Jun 1 @ 10:05 AM ET
The real question is who did Parise have playing with him... That team never had half the offensive talent the Flyers had..

On top of it, Parise is a much better all around impact player.

- jak521



I think in terms of impact on a team they are both comparable. The edge that I think Parise has is that he has been more consistent offensively, and has been a better playoff performer.
PLindbergh31
Location: NJ
Joined: 02.01.2008

Jun 1 @ 10:06 AM ET
Schultz/Del Zotto would be pretty redundant, IMO. They both play the same sort of role.

I give Del Zotto huge credit for remaking his game -- he was considered very suspect defensively when he came into the NHL. It remains to be seen if Schultz could be a good fit in Tortorella's system. Right now, I don't think he can. I think he'd spend a lot of time as a healthy scratch his first NHL season if he played for the Rangers.

- bmeltzer


I haven't seen Schultz play Bill so I will defer to you here. Do you think the Flyers will be in the mix for Schultz?
RooNosHockey
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bear, DE
Joined: 10.25.2011

Jun 1 @ 10:06 AM ET
My question is why do you have a printout of the seat belt laws on you?
- aightwebang17


So he can stick it to the man..... Just like someone else here sits with a print-out of the NHL CBA's Salary Cap... Stick it to da man.....
Bill Meltzer
Editor
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 07.13.2006

Jun 1 @ 10:06 AM ET
I disagree B-rad... I know he isnt a Mike Green, but he also isnt a guy like Letang. I want a guy who can bring it offensively, but is better in his own end.
- jak521


I think Enström is decent in his own end of the ice. He has always had some trouble coping with big, strong forwards but he moves the puck very effectively under pressure.

Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

Jun 1 @ 10:07 AM ET
Is this the only law you carry with you or do you have many print outs?
- funmaster18


Nope this is the one I carry, because of past experience. Basically, it started when we were at a party, and all the cop in laws were there. One asked about the car seat configuration, and it led to a discussion where the 7 cops present all had different answers to the question of what the law said.

I printed it out that night and carry it to avoid having to go to court with the printout.
bradleyc4
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: the jewelry is still out
Joined: 01.16.2007

Jun 1 @ 10:08 AM ET
I disagree B-rad... I know he isnt a Mike Green, but he also isnt a guy like Letang. I want a guy who can bring it offensively, but is better in his own end.
- jak521


We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think you're giving Enstrom enough credit for what he does/brings to their blueline. It's because of his play that Byfuglien can do the things he does in the offensive zone.
Jsaquella
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bringing Hexy Back
Joined: 06.16.2006

Jun 1 @ 10:08 AM ET
So he can stick it to the man..... Just like someone else here sits with a print-out of the NHL CBA's Salary Cap... Stick it to da man.....
- RooNosHockey


Why have a print out? Anyone can just go to www.capgeek.com


Hell, you can even send them question to clarify and they respond back pretty quickly
jak521
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Buckle Up.
Joined: 02.19.2008

Jun 1 @ 10:09 AM ET
Yea, but Bill. How many of the Defenseman the Flyers drafted have turned out to be above average NHL defenseman after the Flyers gave up on them? Maybe Pitkanen? Maybe Niinimaa? They are average, but I dont think the FLyers gave up really special players... Not like islanders trading Chara...
- RooNosHockey

I think his point is that if you look at the Flyers when they pick d-men in the 1st round... and you see this..

#19 Luca Sbisa
#4 Joni Pitkanen
#28 Jeff Woywitka
#20 Darren Rumble
#20 Kerry Huffmann
#16 Steve Smith


Tomahawk
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner bandwagon. Grab 'em by the Corsi.
Joined: 02.04.2009

Jun 1 @ 10:09 AM ET
Pitkanen, Niinimaa, Seidenberg. You can probably add Sbisa in there, as well, although getting Pronger was big.

That said, given the Flyers history of drafting defensemen, what gives you confidence that they'll draft John Carlson and not Colten Tuebert or Thomas Hickey?

- Jsaquella



Seidenberg is the one that got away, IMO. They completely misread his areas of strength and rushed him up badly.
griouxmvp2012
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: NJ
Joined: 06.27.2011

Jun 1 @ 10:09 AM ET
In the immortal words of Dean Wormer 0.0%

90% chance Parise stays in NJ
10% chance he joins Suter in Detroit

- PLindbergh31

no way he signs in nj
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22  Next