How do they do it!

(i know i know.. they find gems in the draft)
- jak521

Ken Holland has a witch.

I agree. Enstrom is a nice player but I wouldn't put him in Timonen's class. Especially when Timonen first came here to the Flyers.
- MJL

Enstrom, Edler, and White are the best available next offseason. So I wonder if Homer is going to make a move this summer for a defenseman? Then there is the possibility of Weber (but I think I have a better chance of winning the megamillions).

No question. I think Detroit is the lone possibility outside of him staying with the Devils. I have read he's very tight with Suter and if Suter lands in Detroit I'm sure Parise would give it some thought.
- PLindbergh31

I do think he stays in Jersey, though. If they win the Cup, I think it jumps to 99.999999999999999%

There is no doubt he is good in his own end, but the way I see it, if I am moving JvR I am doing so in a package for a better d-man.
- jak521

Erik Johnson, Dmitry Kulikov, Nik Hjalmarsson, Jared Cowan, & Luke Schenn are the kind of guys that I would target if JvR's what you've got as your principle trading chip.

Flyers haven't had any luck drafting d-men. I wonder if it makes them gun shy about drafting them. Lots of swings and misses. Much more success drafting forwards.
- PLindbergh31

I think the other reason behind it is because it is so easy to go out and add a d-man.. Maybe not a #1-2 (oh wait they did both of those in a matter of 5 years)...

Heres how I see it. Very few d-men are starting at 18-21... So that means you have to wait about 3-4 years just for them to get a shot at top AHL time... Ultimately, you can go out and get guys like Carle or Meszy and not have to break the bank.. Unfortunately you cant go out and just get Webers or Doughtys without breaking the bank...

Thats where the drafting comes in... Look at this past draft. SOOOO MANY ppl wanted the Flyers to take Dougie Hamilton with the #8 pick.. The #1 weakness had been defense at the time... Instead they take Coots.. and can a single person honestly question that now? So if the best player available is a winger.. take him.. if its a center... take him.. if its a d-man... take him.

I guess my point is... yes you can get someone similiar later. But they Flyers dont have a good history of this, and the chances that a team lands that guy is way down as well.

It like playing long shots at the track.
You could take the favorite but you have to put up more money to win a large amount. Your more likely to win though. (first round picks)

Or you could play the under-dog. Someone that is similiar to the favorite, but still has a chance to win, although much smaller. But you get a better return on your money.( 2nd-3rd round picks)

Or you could take a long shot. Someone that has little to no shot, but has some kind of fluke potential and pays off big... (4th and later)
- RooNosHockey

But that's not what the point is. The point is that with the history of defenseman being drafted and the depth in the draft of defenseman, your chances of getting a good player in later rounds isn't much different from a first round pick if the player doesn't have a very high upside offensively. So why move up or down to draft a position. Take the best player available in the first regardless of position.

I think the other reason behind it is because it is so easy to go out and add a d-man.. Maybe not a #1-2 (oh wait they did both of those in a matter of 5 years)...

Heres how I see it. Very few d-men are starting at 18-21... So that means you have to wait about 3-4 years just for them to get a shot at top AHL time... Ultimately, you can go out and get guys like Carle or Meszy and not have to break the bank.. Unfortunately you cant go out and just get Webers or Doughtys without breaking the bank...

Thats where the drafting comes in... Look at this past draft. SOOOO MANY ppl wanted the Flyers to take Dougie Hamilton with the #8 pick.. The #1 weakness had been defense at the time... Instead they take Coots.. and can a single person honestly question that now? So if the best player available is a winger.. take him.. if its a center... take him.. if its a d-man... take him.
- jak521

I wanted them to take Hamilton because there's no way Couturier should have fallen past the Isles. I was certain the Jets would take Couts. When they didn't, Couturier was a no brainer.

god bless this post.

(bill's, not mine.)

I think the other reason behind it is because it is so easy to go out and add a d-man.. Maybe not a #1-2 (oh wait they did both of those in a matter of 5 years)...

Heres how I see it. Very few d-men are starting at 18-21... So that means you have to wait about 3-4 years just for them to get a shot at top AHL time... Ultimately, you can go out and get guys like Carle or Meszy and not have to break the bank.. Unfortunately you cant go out and just get Webers or Doughtys without breaking the bank...

Thats where the drafting comes in... Look at this past draft. SOOOO MANY ppl wanted the Flyers to take Dougie Hamilton with the #8 pick.. The #1 weakness had been defense at the time... Instead they take Coots.. and can a single person honestly question that now? So if the best player available is a winger.. take him.. if its a center... take him.. if its a d-man... take him.
- jak521

Good post Jak. I agree with you 100%.

Erik Johnson, Dmitry Kulikov, Nik Hjalmarsson, Jared Cowan, & Luke Schenn are the kind of guys that I would target if JvR's what you've got as your principle trading chip.
- Tomahawk

I would only trade JVR if we can send him to a team that will win the cup.

Richards
Carter
J. Williams
Brind'Amour

I'm sure I'm missing other forwards.

If we don't send him to a cup team, then we are breaking tradition.

Erik Johnson, Dmitry Kulikov, Nik Hjalmarsson, Jared Cowan, & Luke Schenn are the kind of guys that I would target if JvR's what you've got as your principle trading chip.
- Tomahawk

I'd much rather keep JVR than acquire any of those guys for him. Kulikov is at least tempting.

Erik Johnson, Dmitry Kulikov, Nik Hjalmarsson, Jared Cowan, & Luke Schenn are the kind of guys that I would target if JvR's what you've got as your principle trading chip.
- Tomahawk

Kulikov is a guy I would kill to have.. He is young, an extremely talented skater, has great offensive instincts, and has the size to be a very solid player in his own end. Plays a bit chippy sometimes too. Nik Hjalmarsson isnt on my list, as I see him as a poor mans Coburn. Jared Cowan is certainly an entertaining idea. Schenn would have to be part of a package... and a pretty nice one at that.

Erik Johnson worries me. He is 24 and has yet to have a season that ppl expected to be the norm for him..

No way huh? He's the Captain of the team, by all accounts loves playing and living in NJ, and his team is currently in the SCF. Seems like a miserable situation for him to be in.
- PLindbergh31

they dont have money to offer him hes not gonna take a discont

god bless this post.

(bill's, not mine.)
- OrangeBlack27

I'd much rather keep JVR than acquire any of those guys for him. Kulikov is at least tempting.
- bradleyc4

+1

Good post Jak. I agree with you 100%.
- PLindbergh31

I think most people say take the best player. However, you will never hear a team say they took the third best player available b/c they needed the position.

Of course, I better be careful of using the word "never", b/c the semantic police will soon be arriving (not mentioning any names though)

I wanted them to take Hamilton because there's no way Couturier should have fallen past the Isles. I was certain the Jets would take Couts. When they didn't, Couturier was a no brainer.
- Jsaquella

Yup. No question. Cheveldayoff, and Snow really screwed the pooch. Would have been interesting if Couturier was off the board what the Flyers would have done. I would think Hamilton would have been a no brainer, but Siemens and Murphy rumors were floating around. Thank God Couturier was there, because I would have been ill if they didn't get Hamilton.

I think most people say take the best player. However, you will never hear a team say they took the third best player available b/c they needed the position.

Of course, I better be careful of using the word "never", b/c the semantic police will soon be arriving (not mentioning any names though)
- Daman

Just playing devils advocate, what if a goaltender is the best player remaining on the Flyers board when they select?

Why trade up? So give up assets to get a guy who "potentially" has a little bit of a higher upside?

Also, where are they so glaringly deficient?

Defense? What with Gusty, MAB waiting and possibly gaining spots? Yes they are lacking a top d-prospect that is a set in stone top 4 guy... But honestly, how many teams have those kinda of prospects?

If there is a weakness in the org.. I would say it would be Right Wing.
- jak521

Voracek, Simmonds, Read, Wellwood, Giroux, and Rinaldo all play right wing.

I'd much rather keep JVR than acquire any of those guys for him. Kulikov is at least tempting.
- bradleyc4

thought ej's peripherals were better, but he plays in mostly offensive situations and still doesn't put up great numbers. exhibit A why you don't take a dman first overall, but i'm pretty sure he was the consensus at the time.

Just playing devils advocate, what if a goaltender is the best player remaining on the Flyers board when they select?
- PLindbergh31

Take him. Never know whats going to happen.

I'd much rather keep JVR than acquire any of those guys for him. Kulikov is at least tempting.
- bradleyc4

Heres a few guys I would be willing to package JvR for ..

Tyler Myers.
Alex Pietrangelo
Alex Edler
Brent Seabrooke

Obviously, JvR wouldnt likely get the job done alone..

Voracek, Simmonds, Read, Wellwood, Giroux, and Rinaldo all play right wing.
- RooNosHockey

I thought we were talking about in the farm system?
Giroux is a center.. he likely wont ever play right wing again.. Wellwood is a 4th liner, as is Rinaldo.
Timonen, Carle, Coburn, Grossmann, Meszy, Gusty, MaB, Lilja all play defense.

Heres a few guys I would be willing to package JvR for ..

Tyler Myers.
Alex Pietrangelo
Alex Edler
Brent Seabrooke

Obviously, JvR wouldnt likely get the job done alone..
- jak521

Highly doubt any of them are available, and most of them would likely require Couturier or Schenn, more so than JVR.

Highly doubt any of them are available, and most of them would likely require Couturier or Schenn, more so than JVR.
- bradleyc4

I know you may not be a fan of this suggestion. JvR for Yandle?