Why wouldn't he sign the deal? He was told they wanted him in Philly for 11 years. He could have just signed for a year or two, and left in Free Agency, and put himself out to the highest bidder. Then what would they have been saying about him? Recognize the entire situation and put yourself in his shoes.
- MJL

I agree to a point. I feel Homer did a terrible thing by having those two sign meg-deals. I also have no proof but am pretty confident that those two did not conduct themselves in a manner that was "committed" (I have no proof but even Bill has made comments about certain players not being committed to the tradition of the franchise- and that is a big deal in this org). I don't buy the drugs/drinking crap but they were given too much and not as "committed" as Philly wanted. I don't think Homer wanted to trade them, I think he felt he had to for the betterment of the organization. So, yes, I feel bad that Carter was left holding the bag after feeling he was locked in, but I think some of it falls on the players as well. WE WILL NEVER KNOW THE WHOLE STORY. Which makes me even more willing to let all parties take responsibility.

That all said, I think being traded from Philly was the best thing (not at the time but obviously now) for all parties involved. I wonder if Carter and Richards would be as "committed" as they wee currently on the Flyers?

Give me millions of dollars and no way to fire me and I will work less hard. I am not suggesting they don't have integrity but I do believe in human traits and social behavior being dictated by our genetics. More resources= less pressure to work hard. I believe being traded may have been the best thing for them and for the Flyers.

I blame Carter and his agent. Get a NMC and you dont have to worry about it. He pays his agent big money. That falls on them imo.
- stveshdy

Again, not aware of the facts. Carter did have that clause in his deal. A player is not eligible for a NTC/NMC until he has reached the point in his career of being eligible for UFA status. The Flyers traded Carter before the clause kicked in, which would have been after this Season. And also, because he was traded before hand, his NTC does not transfer to the team he was traded to.

Again, not aware of the facts. Carter did have that clause in his deal. A player is not eligible for a NTC/NMC until he has reached the point in his career of being eligible for UFA status. The Flyers traded Carter before the clause kicked in, which would have been after this Season. And also, because he was traded before hand, his NTC does not transfer to the team he was traded to.
- MJL

And again..Carter still had the choice to not sign the contract and wait. No one forced him to sign that deal. Thats my only point. He took the money and long term commitment knowing he was not protected. Its a business and nothing is guaranteed (as far as trades).

I find people today believe that owing an apology is tantamount to being wrong. I didn't say Homer was wrong. I said I think Homer owes him an Apology.
- flyler

I don't think you owe anyone an apology unless you did something wrong. Holmgren didn't do anything wrong in my opinion.

And again..Carter still had the choice to not sign the contract and wait. No one forced him to sign that deal. Thats my only point. He took the money and long term commitment knowing he was not protected. Its a business and nothing is guaranteed (as far as trades).
- stveshdy

No, he took the deal and the long term comittment to stay with the Flyers. Why wouldn't you sign the deal if your told they want to keep you for 11 years. And your happy playing where you are?

He didn't in any way come off like a victim. He was screwed by being sent to a dreadful Orginization that is going no where, and had no chance of winning at any time soon. And he had every right to be unhappy being sent there, and letting mnagement know that he wasn't happy there. Every right in the World. He gave up any control he had over his own career to stay in Philly. It's amazes me how people judge from afar without putting themselves in another's shoes. And money has nothing to do with it. And money doesn't take away human emotions. Ridiculous.
- MJL

See I don't see it that way. What is the difference if he signed for 3 years or 5 years, etc? He could have signed for, say, 3 years and re-signed once those years were up. he still would have had control over his career year by year if he chose. But he chose to take the security of 10 years. Do I blame him for taking 10 years? of course not. But do I blame the Flyers for changing their mind with the direction of the team? No, not in the least bit.

Back to Carter and Richards again? This is just so cheesy they could film it and run it at 1:00 p.m. on ABC.... Call it "As the Buzz turns".

I blame Carter and his agent. Get a NMC and you dont have to worry about it. He pays his agent big money. That falls on them imo.
- stveshdy

No, he took the deal and the long term comittment to stay with the Flyers. Why wouldn't you sign the deal if your told they want to keep you for 11 years. And your happy playing where you are?
- MJL

Cause its their word. Isnt that the point of a contract? You always ask for something in writing and signed thats just business. His agent I'm sure explained the possibilites that he was not protected.

- Don'tForgetTocchet

Point is he didnt have to sign that deal knowing he wasnt protected. Wait until you can get a NMC or sign the deal knowing that anything is possible. Simple concept.

Why would Homer have to apologize?
- stveshdy

I find people today believe that owing an apology is tantamount to being wrong. I didn't say Homer was wrong. I said I think Homer owes him an Apology.

Carter signed a long term deal that set the amount of money he will make for the best years of his career at a low rate so that he could play in Philly and allow Management to field a competitive team with the salary cap. Just before his no trade kicked in, Homer traded him to one of the worst teams in the League. Did Homer make a good move for Philly? Yes. Was it the right move? Yes. Does he owe the guy who took a lifetime paycut to play for him, only to trade him to some rinky Expansion team that's been to the Playoff's once and got swept?!?!?!? Yeah. I think he owes him a, "I'm sorry Jeff, let me buy you a beer..."

I don't begrudge Carter his feeling on being traded to Columbus one bit. For me, the money doesn't enter in to it. He signed a cap friendly, long term deal, foregoing free agency, to stay with a team he was happy playing for. He went from an organization that had a tradition of winning year after year, and was sent to hockey's equivalent of hell.

There is not one person here would be happy if their company decided to send them to Alaska with no choice but to go. I don't care who you are.

I know that if my company tripled my salary, and then said I have to work in Ethiopia with no choice in the matter, I would be pretty pissed off regardless of what they were paying me. Anyone who says otherwise is just being irrational.

It wasn't like Carter could just quit his job and go work for another team.

Sure he could have handled it better, but to say, "oh he makes such and such money he should just suck it up" has no basis in reality.

I think you place too much value in money. What good is money if you are miserable where you are.

I agree to a point. I feel Homer did a terrible thing by having those two sign meg-deals. I also have no proof but am pretty confident that those two did not conduct themselves in a manner that was "committed" (I have no proof but even Bill has made comments about certain players not being committed to the tradition of the franchise- and that is a big deal in this org). I don't buy the drugs/drinking crap but they were given too much and not as "committed" as Philly wanted. I don't think Homer wanted to trade them, I think he felt he had to for the betterment of the organization. So, yes, I feel bad that Carter was left holding the bag after feeling he was locked in, but I think some of it falls on the players as well. WE WILL NEVER KNOW THE WHOLE STORY. Which makes me even more willing to let all parties take responsibility.

That all said, I think being traded from Philly was the best thing (not at the time but obviously now) for all parties involved. I wonder if Carter and Richards would be as "committed" as they wee currently on the Flyers?

Give me millions of dollars and no way to fire me and I will work less hard. I am not suggesting they don't have integrity but I do believe in human traits and social behavior being dictated by our genetics. More resources= less pressure to work hard. I believe being traded may have been the best thing for them and for the Flyers.
- coffee junkie

Regardless of why you think the trades were made, they were made. And if it was just about money, Carter would have just collected the big checks and stayed in Columbus and not voiced his unhappiness in being there. Why would he be unhappy if it was just about money? Obviously, he wanted to be on a good team that had some kind of future and a good chance of winning and making the playoffs. I think both Carter and Richards have debunked that myth in LA that the millions they are earning has made them lazy and not wanting to play hard.

I find people today believe that owing an apology is tantamount to being wrong. I didn't say Homer was wrong. I said I think Homer owes him an Apology.

Carter signed a long term deal that set the amount of money he will make for the best years of his career at a low rate so that he could play in Philly and allow Management to field a competitive team with the salary cap. Just before his no trade kicked in, Homer traded him to one of the worst teams in the League. Did Homer make a good move for Philly? Yes. Was it the right move? Yes. Does he owe the guy who took a lifetime paycut to play for him, only to trade him to some rinky Expansion team that's been to the Playoff's once and got swept?!?!?!? Yeah. I think he owes him a, "I'm sorry Jeff, let me buy you a beer..."
- flyler

Still dont undestand the idea behind Homer giving Carter an apology.

Point is he didnt have to sign that deal knowing he wasnt protected. Wait until you can get a NMC or sign the deal knowing that anything is possible. Simple concept.
- stveshdy

and some people believe that taking a little less to commit to a place and then being pissed when the rug gets pulled out from under you is also a simple concept


everyone has their opinion, including ol' tubby and wides

I don't think you owe anyone an apology unless you did something wrong. Holmgren didn't do anything wrong in my opinion.
- MJL

So if someone paid you money to do a job that hurt someone, you can't man up and at least say Sorry? Geez man, no job is that "right".

http://www.hockeybuzz.com...hread.php?thread_id=98997

Take the Richards and Carter crap to the above thread...

Lets talk about the Current and Future Flyers......

Cause its their word. Isnt that the point of a contract? You always ask for something in writing and signed thats just business. His agent I'm sure explained the possibilites that he was not protected.
- stveshdy

Is it their word? What do you think Holmgren was telling them by siging them to 11 and 12 year deals. That they're going to trade them in a year? Or that they want to keep them for the bulk of thier careers?

Still dont undestand the idea behind Homer giving Carter an apology.
- stveshdy

I guess you don't.

So if someone paid you money to do a job that hurt someone, you can't man up and at least say Sorry? Geez man, no job is that "right".
- flyler

I understand what your saying. But as some are saying, it is a business. And I have no problem with anything Holmgren did. But I have a real problem with outside criticism of Carter because he didn't want to be in Columbus and telling him he should "man up". That's ridiculous.

and some people believe that taking a little less to commit to a place and then being pissed when the rug gets pulled out from under you is also a simple concept


everyone has their opinion, including ol' tubby and wides
- Don'tForgetTocchet

I'm not knocking Carter for taking a deal and expecting to be with the Flyers through that long term deal. However, the NHL is a business and thats why players have agents. The Flyers can sell him the world but if its not in the contract (which wasnt allowed, NMC) then Carter still needs to protect himself. Carter had to know that there was a possibility he could be traded.

I think you place too much value in money. What good is money if you are miserable where you are.
- MBFlyerfan

Depends on if pizza and/or amazon.com deliver there, imo

I don't begrudge Carter his feeling on being traded to Columbus one bit. For me, the money doesn't enter in to it. He signed a cap friendly, long term deal, foregoing free agency, to stay with a team he was happy playing for. He went from an organization that had a tradition of winning year after year, and was sent to hockey's equivalent of hell.

There is not one person here would be happy if their company decided to send them to Alaska with no choice but to go. I don't care who you are.

I know that if my company tripled my salary, and then said I have to work in Ethiopia with no choice in the matter, I would be pretty pissed off regardless of what they were paying me. Anyone who says otherwise is just being irrational.

It wasn't like Carter could just quit his job and go work for another team.

Sure he could have handled it better, but to say, "oh he makes such and such money he should just suck it up" has no basis in reality.

I think you place too much value in money. What good is money if you are miserable where you are.
- MBFlyerfan

Is it their word? What do you think Holmgren was telling them by siging them to 11 and 12 year deals. That they're going to trade them in a year? Or that they want to keep them for the bulk of thier careers?
- MJL

Obviously it was his word. Not on the contract. Theres a possibility that he could be traded because hes not protected.

Do away with contracts and do business in words now.

I guess you don't.
- flyler

I don't either to be honest