If you notice the last few champs had Gonchar/Letang/Fluery, Keith/Seabrook/Campbell, Chara/Thomas, and Doughty/Quick as foundations for championships. The Flyers have no foundation like those teams to build a championship. The Flyers have a great group of forwards but letting them grow isn't getting the Flyers any closer to a Cup. Also the Flyers don't draft high enough to get franchise players. Trading for Weber, no mattet who goes in the trade puts the Flyers closer to championship.
- killercam

Of the guys you mention, only one (Chara), is an elite player. Keith, Doughty, Seabrooke, Gonchar, Letang are nice players, but nowhere near Chara, Lidstrom, or Weber.

So your argument that we have to have an elite d-man to win the Cup is flawed. You have to have good players, and play good team defense. But you don't have to have a true elite #1 d-man to win the Cup. Just like you don't have to have a true elite #1 goalie either. Just ask Osgood, Niemi, and for that matter MAF (very good, but not elite).

I think it's more important to keep the young players we have and let them grow together, than it is to gut the team to add one guy. Just my opinion, and I'm aware that many on here will disagree. But I don't think any single player is worth giving up that many top forwards from the current roster. We do not have the depth to replace them, and we won't have the picks or other assets to trade if we make a deal like that.

I love Wellwood's speed! ... I just wish he was a better scorer in the NHL. He would look great along the side of one of the stars on the first couple of lines.

I respectfully disagree.

1. Weber is a franchise player and he's young.
2. You have to give to get.
3. You'd still have the other two of those four.
- Scoob

If they wanted one of JvR or Voracek, plus Read and a couple 1sts (and getting him signed was a gimme), I'd have to seriously take a look at it.

No way do they get Jake and JvR, and Schenn is nowhere near the trading block.

Of the guys you mention, only one (Chara), is an elite player. Keith, Doughty, Seabrooke, Gonchar, Letang are nice players, but nowhere near Chara, Lidstrom, or Weber.

So your argument that we have to have an elite d-man to win the Cup is flawed. You have to have good players, and play good team defense. But you don't have to have a true elite #1 d-man to win the Cup. Just like you don't have to have a true elite #1 goalie either. Just ask Osgood, Niemi, and for that matter MAF (very good, but not elite).

I think it's more important to keep the young players we have and let them grow together, than it is to gut the team to add one guy. Just my opinion, and I'm aware that many on here will disagree. But I don't think any single player is worth giving up that many top forwards from the current roster. We do not have the depth to replace them, and we won't have the picks or other assets to trade if we make a deal like that.
- BringBack25

What if the deal was JvR, MAB, Cousins, (2) 1st rounders for Weber?

What if the deal was JvR, MAB, Cousins, (2) 1st rounders for Weber?
- stveshdy

Done

If they wanted one of JvR or Voracek, plus Read and a couple 1sts (and getting him signed was a gimme), I'd have to seriously take a look at it.

No way do they get Jake and JvR, and Schenn is nowhere near the trading block.
- tangent_man

I could live with something like that JVR and a bottom 6 forward (Read, Wellwood, etc.). Still not giving them both JVR and Jake, plus the picks.

I would not include Schenn or Couturier in any deal.

Also the Flyers don't draft high enough to get franchise players.
- killercam

Claude Giroux, Mike Richards and Simon Gagne say hi.

Of the guys you listed, Weber, Quick, Keith, Letang, Thomas, Campbell weren't even drafted in the 1st-round. And only Fleury and Doughty were top-10 picks.

Trading for Weber, no mattet who goes in the trade puts the Flyers closer to championship.
- killercam

They thought that about Pronger, too. The fall-out from that trade hasn't even settled yet -- Etem looks like a potential All-Star, Palmieri not far behind, and we all know how good Sbisa might become. It could look really ugly in hindsight in a couple of years -- to potentially do that again, so soon, would be disastrous.

What if the deal was JvR, MAB, Cousins, (2) 1st rounders for Weber?
- stveshdy

I would consider that. Again, my issue is giving up TWO top 6 forwards AND two first round picks.

We should not move two top 6 forwards (especially if we are also not bringing back Jagr). That's basically half our top six going out the door. We do not have the depth to make that work, and there will be no comparable forwards coming back in the deal.

Further, we'll have no assets left to trade, and no picks to draft their replacements with. A move like that will set the team back years, and undo everything we accomplished (in terms of restocking the system and regaining some cap flexibility) with last year's moves.

Claude Giroux, Mike Richards and Simon Gagne say hi.

Of the guys you listed, Weber, Quick, Keith, Letang, Thomas, Campbell weren't even drafted in the 1st-round. And only Fleury and Doughty were top-10 picks.




They thought that about Pronger, too. The fall-out from that trade hasn't even settled yet -- Etem looks like a potential All-Star, Palmieri not far behind, and we all know how good Sbisa might become. It could look really ugly in hindsight in a couple of years -- to potentially do that again, so soon, would be disastrous.
- Tomahawk

yeah but weber is only 27 and a beast. What happened to pronger could happen to anyone. I just think with a guy like weber around it would add to the maturity of our young forwards. They will now have someone to hold them responsible for their play in their own end. With Weber is see our forwards maturing faster. Look at edmonton all the young talent in the world and soon to be more. I dont think you can win with all young guys.

Of the guys you mention, only one (Chara), is an elite player. Keith, Doughty, Seabrooke, Gonchar, Letang are nice players, but nowhere near Chara, Lidstrom, or Weber.

So your argument that we have to have an elite d-man to win the Cup is flawed. You have to have good players, and play good team defense. But you don't have to have a true elite #1 d-man to win the Cup. Just like you don't have to have a true elite #1 goalie either. Just ask Osgood, Niemi, and for that matter MAF (very good, but not elite).

I think it's more important to keep the young players we have and let them grow together, than it is to gut the team to add one guy. Just my opinion, and I'm aware that many on here will disagree. But I don't think any single player is worth giving up that many top forwards from the current roster. We do not have the depth to replace them, and we won't have the picks or other assets to trade if we make a deal like that.
- BringBack25

Doughty is an elite defenseman. He's earned it. I dont think he turned the puck over once all playoffs. If you dont want to put him in with Lidstrom thats fine. But hes earned his stripes with the Charas and Webers of the game

I think if you trade Staal, it will hurt you guys more than most think. He is a rock. That kid does it all. You may get a good return for him, but I think in the long run it will sting more.
- Deasr1

Completely agree. Let him play his last year of the contract out if we cant resign him for 5 million a year ish. Our PK has been in the top 5 the past few years and a big reason for that is because of Staal. Also, lack of defense is the reason we lost in the playoffs and alot of people want to get rid of one of our best defensive forwards? Doesn't make sense.

I would consider that. Again, my issue is giving up TWO top 6 forwards AND two first round picks.

We should not move two top 6 forwards (especially if we are also not bringing back Jagr). That's basically half our top six going out the door. We do not have the depth to make that work, and there will be no comparable forwards coming back in the deal.

Further, we'll have no assets left to trade, and no picks to draft their replacements with. A move like that will set the team back years, and undo everything we accomplished (in terms of restocking the system and regaining some cap flexibility) with last year's moves.
- BringBack25

I dont think the Flyers are going to trade two top six forwards but I can see Homer offering what I just proposed.

I think certain teams got caught with their pants down (VAN, CHI, PIT, PHI) in the playoffs due to the shift from the refs not calling the obstruction penalties. The playoffs were murky and resembled pre lockout hockey. This is so important going forward with the new CBA and maybe a new language to the rule.
- Just5

Indeed. Not sure if it was a message from the league to the refs telling them to let it go or if it was the refs way of "letting the players play". Either way I think new language is a must.

Claude Giroux, Mike Richards and Simon Gagne say hi.

Of the guys you listed, Weber, Quick, Keith, Letang, Thomas, Campbell weren't even drafted in the 1st-round. And only Fleury and Doughty were top-10 picks.




They thought that about Pronger, too. The fall-out from that trade hasn't even settled yet -- Etem looks like a potential All-Star, Palmieri not far behind, and we all know how good Sbisa might become. It could look really ugly in hindsight in a couple of years -- to potentially do that again, so soon, would be disastrous.
- Tomahawk

The thing about that is that they did get mighty close to the the Cup. 2 wins? Basically bc of Pronger. They shot their load and almost got it, I'm sure their not going to turtle up b/c of a freak injury

I could live with something like that JVR and a bottom 6 forward (Read, Wellwood, etc.). Still not giving them both JVR and Jake, plus the picks.

I would not include Schenn or Couturier in any deal.
- BringBack25

Got that right.

Doughty is an elite defenseman. He's earned it. I dont think he turned the puck over once all playoffs. If you dont want to put him in with Lidstrom thats fine. But hes earned his stripes with the Charas and Webers of the game
- Just5

Sorry, no. He's nowhere near the defensive player Chara and Weber are. And he's immature as heck. With any decent officiating he would have had at least two 10 minute misconducts for his stick smashing alone. He has a lot of growing up to do.

Still, Doughty is a very good player, with a high upside. But he's not elite now, and he lacks the size to truly be the sort of defensive, physical force that Weber and Chara are.

DO IT HOMER!!!

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Zach Parise ($7.000m)

Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m)

Matt Read ($0.900m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Eric Wellwood ($0.580m)

Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Harry Zolnierczyk ($0.719m)

DEFENSEMEN

Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Shea Weber ($8.000m)

Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Matt Carle ($4.250m)

Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)

Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) /

GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Martin Biron ($0.875m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $70,041,194; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $258,806
- Jimmygrazz

No cap space with 2 roster spots to fill and no room for injury callups.

Anyone interested in using the money from Jagr to sign PA Parenteau? Not sure how much he will make but seems like a nice role player to fit in with the Flyers.

No cap space with 2 roster spots to fill and no room for injury callups.
- nastyflyergirl

Doesn't Shenn's cap hit drop to 1.1 Mil?

Doesn't Shenn's cap hit drop to 1.1 Mil?
- Jimmygrazz

After the first game it will drop.

The Detroit Red Wings are likely to go after Justin Schultz if he becomes an unrestricted free agent. Schultz's negotiating rights are currently controlled by Anaheim, but it's becoming increasingly likely that he'll simply test the free agent waters on July 1. Schultz had 16 goals and 44 points in 37 NCAA games in 2011-12. There's a good chance he'll start the 2012-13 campaign in the NHL and he'd certainly provide a big boost to Detroit, which badly needs to bolster its defensive corps.
Source: Detroit News

After the first game it will drop.
- stveshdy

Thought so. So it would work.

Anyone interested in using the money from Jagr to sign PA Parenteau? Not sure how much he will make but seems like a nice role player to fit in with the Flyers.
- stveshdy

didnt Meltz bring his name up at one point recently?

Of the guys you mention, only one (Chara), is an elite player. Keith, Doughty, Seabrooke, Gonchar, Letang are nice players, but nowhere near Chara, Lidstrom, or Weber.

So your argument that we have to have an elite d-man to win the Cup is flawed. You have to have good players, and play good team defense. But you don't have to have a true elite #1 d-man to win the Cup. Just like you don't have to have a true elite #1 goalie either. Just ask Osgood, Niemi, and for that matter MAF (very good, but not elite).

I think it's more important to keep the young players we have and let them grow together, than it is to gut the team to add one guy. Just my opinion, and I'm aware that many on here will disagree. But I don't think any single player is worth giving up that many top forwards from the current roster. We do not have the depth to replace them, and we won't have the picks or other assets to trade if we make a deal like that.
- BringBack25

I don't know if any argument is truly flawed.

You could field Crosby, Malkin, Weber, Quick, etc. on one team and there is no guarantee. The Kings barely made the Playoffs.

So in the end it is providing your team with the best odds/chances of winning. I believer Weber provides that, and big time. I think JVR and Voracek is worth it.

I don't see how Nashville does that deal however. Weber can get them to the dance. Voracek and JVR, on their own, will not.

But who knows what will really happen. I say nothing. Which is rather boring.

Dale the Wombat ‏@wombathockey
"@NHLFlyers are getting interesting offers for JVR. They aren't shopping him, but they are listening. Cap hit desirable despite long term"

"JVR cap hit good at his current career PP/G ratio. Any improvement makes him a bargain. Still in prime when deal ends. Flyers intrigued."

Not really a rumour or anything, just an interesting point mentioned. JVR is capable of play like a 5-6 million dollar player long term. His deal is desirable.