- Oilersforlife[/URL]

Gagner: 8 points on feb.2, 7 points in last 23 games played. Worth an 8th overall pick? What a joke.
- Allstarzz

8th overall picks, 25 years (+) of crappy players. What a joke.

Would you say bozak is worth the 8th overall?
- ALEDDO

I would say that until the Leafs can find someone better than Bozak to play between Lupul and Kessel, he is worth far more to their team than he is on the open market.

I made a comment on Twitter the other day questioning if Oilers Cult of Hockey/Oilers Nation blogger Jonathan Willis knows anything at all about the team.

Last year or the season before, they had a little contest at Oilers Nation.
Everyone, the bloggers and the commenters, guestimated how many points, Goals & Assists, a bunch of players from the Oiler's roster would get that season.

Willis won hands down.

The guy knows his stuff.

He pisses people off because he never responds to things like a Fanboy.

Assertions have to be proven, not just repeated loudly and often.
- Seldom Beaton

He analyzes objectively and backs up his arguments with facts. One of the best bloggers out there, in my opinion. He always does the research.

not sure if it's a bit of a tell or what, but Hartsburg hired in CBJ. Coached Murray as a 15 and 16 year old in Everett.

He analyzes objectively and backs up his arguments with facts. One of the best bloggers out there, in my opinion. He always does the research.
- Jack-artist

At least he watches the games now

Gagner worth an 8th? Lets compare to some recent 8ths.

Player - - Pos - GP - G - A - Pts - PPG
Sam Gagner C - 366 77 143 220 0.60
Zach Hamill C - - 20 0 4 4 0.20
Peter Mueller C - 254 55 88 143 0.56
Devin Setoguchi R - 336 103 92 195 0.58
Alexandre Picard L - 67 0 2 2 0.03
Braydon Coburn D - 460 30 105 135 0.29
PM Bouchard C - 522 98 229 327 0.63
Pascal Leclaire G - 173 0 4 4 0.02
Nikita Alexeev W - 159 20 17 37 0.23
Taylor Pyatt L - 755 130 134 264 0.35
Mark Bell C - - 450 87 95 182 0.40
Sergei Samsonov L - 888 235 336 571 0.64

Gagner worth an 8th? Lets compare to some recent 8ths.

Player - - Pos - GP - G - A - Pts - PPG
Sam Gagner C - 366 77 143 220 0.60
Zach Hamill C - - 20 0 4 4 0.20
Peter Mueller C - 254 55 88 143 0.56
Devin Setoguchi R - 336 103 92 195 0.58
Alexandre Picard L - 67 0 2 2 0.03
Braydon Coburn D - 460 30 105 135 0.29
PM Bouchard C - 522 98 229 327 0.63
Pascal Leclaire G - 173 0 4 4 0.02
Nikita Alexeev W - 159 20 17 37 0.23
Taylor Pyatt L - 755 130 134 264 0.35
Mark Bell C - - 450 87 95 182 0.40
Sergei Samsonov L - 888 235 336 571 0.64
- Seldom Beaton

Trading decent players for draft picks outside of the top 2-3 is a fools game. (without including contract situation and age)

Gagner worth an 8th? Lets compare to some recent 8ths.

Player - - Pos - GP - G - A - Pts - PPG
Sam Gagner C - 366 77 143 220 0.60
Zach Hamill C - - 20 0 4 4 0.20
Peter Mueller C - 254 55 88 143 0.56
Devin Setoguchi R - 336 103 92 195 0.58
Alexandre Picard L - 67 0 2 2 0.03
Braydon Coburn D - 460 30 105 135 0.29
PM Bouchard C - 522 98 229 327 0.63
Pascal Leclaire G - 173 0 4 4 0.02
Nikita Alexeev W - 159 20 17 37 0.23
Taylor Pyatt L - 755 130 134 264 0.35
Mark Bell C - - 450 87 95 182 0.40
Sergei Samsonov L - 888 235 336 571 0.64
- Seldom Beaton

Im not going to say whether I think Gagner is worth an eighth or not anymore. Ive made my point on that subject. And I will also say that I think trading Gagner for the eighth would be a backwards move by EDM.

But you guys do see the terrible flaw in this logic correct?

Im not going to say whether I think Gagner is worth an eighth or not anymore. Ive made my point on that subject. And I will also say that I think trading Gagner for the eighth would be a backwards move by EDM.

But you guys do see the terrible flaw in this logic correct?
- Leafs43

What would that be?

What would that be?
- Zombie

That the value of the eighth overall pick is not determined by the players who have been previously chosen there. Perhaps that is the way it should work, but it is not the reality of the situation.

I made a comment on Twitter the other day questioning if Oilers Cult of Hockey/Oilers Nation blogger Jonathan Willis knows anything at all about the team.

Last year or the season before, they had a little contest at Oilers Nation.
Everyone, the bloggers and the commenters, guestimated how many points, Goals & Assists, a bunch of players from the Oiler's roster would get that season.

Willis won hands down.

The guy knows his stuff.

He pisses people off because he never responds to things like a Fanboy.

Assertions have to be proven, not just repeated loudly and often.
- Seldom Beaton

Extremely well put.

Did u grab my ass?

That the value of the eighth overall pick is not determined by the players who have been previously chosen there. Perhaps that is the way it should work, but it is not the reality of the situation.
- Leafs43

The players that have previously been chosen there give you an idea as to what caliber of player a pick in that range will give you, and more importantly what the odds are of landing high end players vs average players vs busts are in that range.

If you want a bigger sample, look at the last 10 years of guys picked 7/8/9 (so 30 players)

You'll quickly see your odds of downgrading on Gagner are FAR better then your odds of upgrading on Gagner.

I would say that until the Leafs can find someone better than Bozak to play between Lupul and Kessel, he is worth far more to their team than he is on the open market.
- Lohaus

I was more trying to make a point that if leaf fans thought he was worth an 8th and Gagner was not, that pretty much they are dumb

Im not going to say whether I think Gagner is worth an eighth or not anymore. Ive made my point on that subject. And I will also say that I think trading Gagner for the eighth would be a backwards move by EDM.

But you guys do see the terrible flaw in this logic correct?
- Leafs43

The list essentially proves picking at 8th is a crapshoot. Keep Gagner. Let them have their 8th. Let he haters hate. Trading him for anything unproven is a step backwards.

I was more trying to make a point that if leaf fans thought he was worth an 8th and Gagner was not, that pretty much they are dumb
- ALEDDO

People care far too much about the opinions of other teams fans on this faget site.

The players that have previously been chosen there give you an idea as to what caliber of player a pick in that range will give you, and more importantly what the odds are of landing high end players vs average players vs busts are in that range.

If you want a bigger sample, look at the last 10 years of guys picked 7/8/9 (so 30 players)

You'll quickly see your odds of downgrading on Gagner are FAR better then your odds of upgrading on Gagner.
- Zombie

I think the attitude though is that the benefit of picking a player better than Gagner is well worth the risk of picking a player that's worse. Frankly it's probably scouting hubris at work, but it doesn't stop GMs from setting the value that way.

The players that have previously been chosen there give you an idea as to what caliber of player a pick in that range will give you.

If you want a bigger sample, look at the last 10 years of guys picked 7/8/9 (so 30 players)

You'll quickly see your odds of downgrading on Gagner are FAR better then your odds of upgrading on Gagner.
- Zombie

Im not debating this at all. I agree that a player chosen 8th probably doesnt end up as good as Gagner.

You are confusing what the value of the pick should be with what the value of the pick is.

This year, the 8th gets you one of Grigorenko, Rielly, or Rienhart.

Last year, it gets you one of Couturier or Hamilton

Year before that, Fowler and Gormley were available (And this isnt hindsight speaking, they should have been taken higher.)

It is the potential that an 18 year old provides that adds value.

I think the attitude though is that the benefit of picking a player better than Gagner is well worth the risk of picking a player that's worse. Frankly it's probably scouting hubris at work, but it doesn't stop GMs from setting the value that way.
- Morris

Even if that happened though, unless the guy was NHL ready right away, how would that advance Edmonton that much? I'm under the impression they want to get back to the playoffs sooner rather than later.

Im not debating this at all. I agree that a player chosen 8th probably doesnt end up as good as Gagner.

You are confusing what the value of the pick should be with what the value of the pick is.

This year, the 8th gets you one of Grigorenko, Rielly, or Rienhart.

Last year, it gets you one of Couturier or Hamilton

Year before that, Fowler and Gormley were available (And this isnt hindsight speaking, they should have been taken higher.)

It is the potential that an 18 year old provides that adds value.
- Leafs43

Sure, the value of the 8th overall might be higher... but that's because people are morons and don't recognize the actually results.

Gags for Grigorenko is far too risky so the 8th most likely is used on a D. Just throwing it out there, but trading Gagner for the 8th makes Horcoff our second line center.

Sure, the value of the 8th overall might be higher... but that's because people are morons and don't recognize the actually results.
- Zombie

This very well may be true. Which is my entire point. The value of the 8th is inflated, but thats still the value.

Even if that happened though, unless the guy was NHL ready right away, how would that advance Edmonton that much? I'm under the impression they want to get back to the playoffs sooner rather than later.
- S Kaspar Rollins

You sir are correct. Not to mention that trading Gagner creates an obvious need for a #2 centre. Trading to fill a void that creates another void is (frank)ing stupid.

This very well may be true. Which is my entire point. The value of the 8th is inflated, but thats still the value.
- Leafs43

Ok, I don't take issue with that. What I take issue with would be our team being dumb enough to make that trade.

Trading to fill a void that creates another void is (frank)ing stupid.

The Gilbert for Schultz trade.
Love Schultz
All the Oil need now is a multi-purpose RH Top-4 minute muncher
Who?
Who?
Think, Think....