He was on pace for around 40 goals before he was hurt. Was he streaky? Yes, but the numbers are what they are. If he had played the full season the same way he did the first part (streaks and all) he would have finished with around 40 goals.

I don't really see how anyone can dispute that JVR isn't a better player than Luck Schenn right now. But the important thing is, will that still be true two or three years from now. If it is, then we lost the deal. If it isn't, then it was a fair trade.
- BringBack25

Jagr was on pace for 90 points in the first 3 months of the season as well. Stamkos was on pace to break Gretzky's record this year as well. They all taper off as the season goes on. Having a couple games where you score 4 goals and 3 assists, followed up by 5 of nothing, and a awful +/- shows you have a guy that, even though could have scored 40 goals will not always be there offensively when you need him, nor will he be defensively responsible when you need him to be.

that's why we brought in grossmanN and kubina. the latter is gone, but mezzy should be healthy and he's plenty physical. our mix and the future dictate that we need a puck mover and dynamic offensive force from the blue line. and matt carle is not a slam dunk to be back even though it looks encouraging.
- isaiah520

I think Timonen and Carle are likely to handle the majority of puck moving per usual, but I believe Coburn can step up his game in that area, especially if slotted as Grossmann's partner...Coby has the wheels and reach to be effective skating the puck out of the D zone and up ice to start the rush...Mez can do it when needed.. I don't think it's a bad thing to have a guys like Schenn and Grossmann disrupting the opposing forecheck and patroling around the net. We'll have to see how this all comes together.

JVR is damged goods at the moment. This is what you get in return for damaged goods. Obviously the player and management didn't agree on his needing surgery at this point. Bye bye player. No other reason to trade away a recent No. 1 pick who showed as much promise as others on here have chimed in with.
- rockychocbill

This does make you wonder if the Flyers had some concerns about JVR's long term health. That could explain why this deal, which didn't seem attractive to the Flyers last season, was suddenly doable.

Also, I think JVR will be forever doomed in the minds of many in Philly because he did not produce immediate glory like Patrick Kane did for the 'Hawks. I think a fresh city may do him some good - although maybe not given that city is Toronto. Leafs fans are even worse that Flyers fans.

All you guys on Twitter who follow Butsy. I'm curious to know what he tweeted about the trade. He (like me) was never high on JVR from the get go iirc. With him being in Toronto area I'm sure he has a good take on Luke.

What gets you Bobby Ryan? All this talk of trading Nash and Ryan but what do you give up for them? Might as well trade the 2 for each other. I wasn't expecting the Pens to get what they did for Jordan Staal.
- Schenn2shine

I dunno what Murray would want besides couts or schenn. we could use Ryan's size, esp now.

All you guys on Twitter who follow Butsy. I'm curious to know what he tweeted about the trade. He (like me) was never high on JVR from the get go iirc. With him being in Toronto area I'm sure he has a good take on Luke.
- rockychocbill

Well, he's on a three day beer/golf trip now, so this is not exactly a detailed assessment, but he doesn't seem upset..

Jim Butler ‏@JimmyHespeler Luke Schenn on the 3rd pair with Meszy...................that's damn good.

This does make you wonder if the Flyers had some concerns about JVR's long term health. That could explain why this deal, which didn't seem attractive to the Flyers last season, was suddenly doable.

Also, I think JVR will be forever doomed in the minds of many in Philly because he did not produce immediate glory like Patrick Kane did for the 'Hawks. I think a fresh city may do him some good - although maybe not given that city is Toronto. Leafs fans are even worse that Flyers fans.
- BringBack25

I wasn't a hater, but I wasn't his biggest fan either. I'm sure everything will be kept hush hush now, as it has been since Christmas when the "cam impingement" article came out. I would REALLY like to ask that reporter who gave him that info.

Well, he's on a three day beer/golf trip now, so this is not exactly a detailed assessment, but he doesn't seem upset..

Jim Butler ‏@JimmyHespeler Luke Schenn on the 3rd pair with Meszy...................that's damn good.


- BringBack25

Thanks BB.

I wasn't a hater, but I wasn't his biggest fan either. I'm sure everything will be kept hush hush now, as it has been since Christmas when the "cam impingement" article came out. I would REALLY like to ask that reporter who gave him that info.
- rockychocbill

i missed that article, what did it say?

Thanks BB.
- rockychocbill

the latest

Jim Butler ‏@JimmyHespeler

HmMmmmmm. Just paid the bill. 15 pitchers of beer for 6 of us. This should be a fun night.

All you guys on Twitter who follow Butsy. I'm curious to know what he tweeted about the trade. He (like me) was never high on JVR from the get go iirc. With him being in Toronto area I'm sure he has a good take on Luke.
- rockychocbill

He basically said that having Luke Schenn on the 3rd pairing is nasty (in a positive light).

Edit: Laught.

I think Timonen and Carle are likely to handle the majority of puck moving per usual, but I believe Coburn can step up his game in that area, especially if slotted as Grossmann's partner...Coby has the wheels and reach to be effective skating the puck out of the D zone and up ice to start the rush...Mez can do it when needed.. I don't think it's a bad thing to have a guys like Schenn and Grossmann disrupting the opposing forecheck and patroling around the net. We'll have to see how this all comes together.
- phantasm

kimmo is a big ? this yr and he could be gone afterwards. mezzy and grossmanN are physical enuf. flyers need a dynamic offensive force from the blue line badly.

I wasn't a hater, but I wasn't his biggest fan either. I'm sure everything will be kept hush hush now, as it has been since Christmas when the "cam impingement" article came out. I would REALLY like to ask that reporter who gave him that info.
- rockychocbill

I wasn't a hater either, but will admit to being frustrated with JVR at times. I still think (assuming the hip thing isn't an issue), that he'll be a solid 30-40 goal guy. He has all the tools.

I still say that his biggest problem is he wasn't an immediate success like Kane. Fans lost patience with him, and watching Kane hoist the Cup in our barn didn't help.

This is a bigger move than I expected. I didn't expect major changes. And while some may think this isn't major, it is more than minor.

Don't like the trade. Not at all.

Little did I know that all brothers have to play together now

JVR will be a stud someday.

Life goes on.
- Daman

Leafs to win Cup this year...or JvR is traded to the team who does...

i missed that article, what did it say?
- the deaninator

Multiple sources confirmed yesterday that van Riemsdyk has both a cam impingement in his hip, which has been bothering him since the onset of the season, and a knee that was "banged up a few games ago" but was aided by rest over the 2-day Christmas holiday break.

http://articles.philly.co...der-injury-brayden-schenn

Don't love or hate JvR trade. Does kind of show what was expected for Ryan or Nash, though.

I do think they should have gotten a bit more in the trade. Both guys have had ups and downs.

the latest

Jim Butler ‏@JimmyHespeler

HmMmmmmm. Just paid the bill. 15 pitchers of beer for 6 of us. This should be a fun night.
- ob18

Just a thought...

Read this about L. Schenn a few mins ago. "Growing up, Schenn patterned his play after fellow defencemen Chris Pronger and Rob Blake."

Maybe Prongs can help here even if it's in an off-ice mentor relationship.

I have a feeling playing with Brayden and having his defensive idol around to help him develop into his full potential will pay nice dividends for the Flyers.

Multiple sources confirmed yesterday that van Riemsdyk has both a cam impingement in his hip, which has been bothering him since the onset of the season, and a knee that was "banged up a few games ago" but was aided by rest over the 2-day Christmas holiday break.

http://articles.philly.co...der-injury-brayden-schenn
- rockychocbill

Aren't all these deals contingent upon both players passing a physical with their new teams?

How hilarious would it be if the Leafs reject this deal due to concerns over JVR's hip. What a fiasco that would be...

He basically said that having Luke Schenn on the 3rd pairing is nasty (in a positive light).

Edit: Laught.
- BoomGoesTheCoburn

That's okay. It's the thought that counts plus I haven't seen you around here for a while either.

That's okay. It's the thought that counts plus I haven't seen you around here for a while either.
- rockychocbill

That's all Crim - the snarky bastage.

I haven't been around since the New Jersey series. Fast-paced summer! How have you been, my fellow left-coaster?

Don't love or hate JvR trade. Does kind of show what was expected for Ryan or Nash, though.

I do think they should have gotten a bit more in the trade. Both guys have had ups and downs.
- Jsaquella

Under "normal" circumstances I believe we would have got Schenn, another ready player and possibly a mid round draft pick for JVR. Right now Burke is taking a gamble on JVR. It might not be a huge gamble, but it's a gamble nonetheless. I would be really curious if he agrees to the surgery in the near future.

I wasn't a hater either, but will admit to being frustrated with JVR at times. I still think (assuming the hip thing isn't an issue), that he'll be a solid 30-40 goal guy. He has all the tools.

I still say that his biggest problem is he wasn't an immediate success like Kane. Fans lost patience with him, and watching Kane hoist the Cup in our barn didn't help.
- BringBack25

definitely. JVR has all the potential in the world to make us hate this trade...far more than Luke does. and btw, we now def need a power forward...

That's all Crim - the snarky bastage.

I haven't been around since the New Jersey series. Fast-paced summer! How have you been, my fellow left-coaster?
- BoomGoesTheCoburn

Summer be slow for me and the chocolate biz. Just the way I like it. If only there were some decent weather to along with it. Was going to grill steaks tonight and the skies opened up a half hour ago.

Don't love or hate JvR trade. Does kind of show what was expected for Ryan or Nash, though.

I do think they should have gotten a bit more in the trade. Both guys have had ups and downs.
- Jsaquella

+1.

The thing is...if they hold onto JVR til the trade deadline, it's a high risk / high reward thing. Maybe he puts it all together, his value is sky high and he could be packaged with fewer assets for Weber, Edler, etc.

OR...maybe the injuries mount and he is furthered devalued. Obviously they weren't willing to take the chance.

If they sign Carle, I like the D. We can spread the minutes around and save Kimmo a bit throughout the season.

But for me best part of this deal is no bigger trade for Nash or Ryan. I'd rather keep this young nucleus together for the next 2-3 years and build on it.