kimmo is a big ? this yr and he could be gone afterwards. mezzy and grossmanN are physical enuf. flyers need a dynamic offensive force from the blue line badly. - isaiah520
Your right they do. But maybe Holmgren tested the waters and it wasn't there. I would not have made this trade. I'd have rather kept JVR. But with that being said. If they're able to re-sign Carle, and with adding Schenn. They have a formidable defense. They can keep Carle away from the PK, and play Schenn there. Who is a bigger body and more capable of playing physical around the net. Schenn also for a stay at home handles the puck decently. And at 22, he's not reached his peak. So while they will miss JVR on the front end. Schenn will help them in some areas. Expect some ups and downs. But you'll have that with Carle, Grossmann, Coburn, and Meszaros also. And I'm sure Holmgren has some more moves up his sleeve.
Aren't all these deals contingent upon both players passing a physical with their new teams?
How hilarious would it be if the Leafs reject this deal due to concerns over JVR's hip. What a fiasco that would be... - BringBack25
Normally they are, but I'm sure the team can "waive" the right of refusal too. I'm sure Burke is not in the dark here. Any astute GM knows that JVR has/had health issues. The speculation has been out there for a while now. I'm sure it discussed before the deal went down. Nobody wants this type of thing coming back on them if they can help it.
Location: "All train compartments smell vaguely of sh*t. It gets so you don't mind it" Joined: 12.26.2006
Jun 23 @ 9:00 PM ET
Your right they do. But maybe Holmgren tested the waters and it wasn't there. I would not have made this trade. I'd have rather kept JVR. But with that being said. If they're able to re-sign Carle, and with adding Schenn. They have a formidable defense. They can keep Carle away from the PK, and play Schenn there. Who is a bigger body and more capable of playing physical around the net. Schenn also for a stay at home handles the puck decently. And at 22, he's not reached his peak. So while they will miss JVR on the front end. Schenn will help them in some areas. Expect some ups and downs. But you'll have that with Carle, Grossmann, Coburn, and Meszaros also. And I'm sure Holmgren has some more moves up his sleeve. - MJL
pretty good analysis. concerned that we prob need another pwr forward and it wouldn't shock me if mezzy is shipped out if we acquire yet another dman.
Normally they are, but I'm sure the team can "waive" the right of refusal too. I'm sure Burke is not in the dark here. Any astute GM knows that JVR has/had health issues. The speculation has been out there for a while now. I'm sure it discussed before the deal went down. Nobody wants this type of thing coming back on them if they can help it. - rockychocbill
I agree with everything you said. I also know that this is Philly, the place where if there's a chance something bizarre and unexpected can happen, it usually does.
pretty good analysis. concerned that we prob need another pwr forward and it wouldn't shock me if mezzy is shipped out if we acquire yet another dman. - isaiah520
I would like to see them add a top scoring line player. And a gritty 2 way physical forward capable of chipping in 15 goals or so. I think that would round out the Forward lineup. I fully expect another big move.
Hey what do you guys think about signing Shane Doan? I'd love Parisi, but I don't see it. Maybe just don't want to get my hopes up. But this lineup isn't that bad. Didn't put dollars in for Doan but it should be ok.
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($2.750m)
Shane Doan ($4.550m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Luke Schenn ($3.600m) / Matt Carle ($4.750m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,946,944; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $4,353,056
Location: "All train compartments smell vaguely of sh*t. It gets so you don't mind it" Joined: 12.26.2006
Jun 23 @ 9:10 PM ET
I would like to see them add a top scoring line player. And a gritty 2 way physical forward capable of chipping in 15 goals or so. I think that would round out the Forward lineup. I fully expect another big move. - MJL
hope you're right...and that the cost/benefit is better than today's deal.
Well, Bryz will certainly get all the games he needs to stay sharp under your plan.
I'd be surprised if Doan left Phoenix at this point in his career. He has strong ties to the area. You never know, but it doesn't seem likely. Maybe if he thought he was going to a guaranteed Cup finalist, but hard to think he sees Philly in that light right now.
I like him, and at the right salary I wouldn't mind him on the Flyers. But he's a little like Jagr (although not quite that old) in that he'll want more money than he's probably worth at his age.
Your right they do. But maybe Holmgren tested the waters and it wasn't there. I would not have made this trade. I'd have rather kept JVR. But with that being said. If they're able to re-sign Carle, and with adding Schenn. They have a formidable defense. They can keep Carle away from the PK, and play Schenn there. Who is a bigger body and more capable of playing physical around the net. Schenn also for a stay at home handles the puck decently. And at 22, he's not reached his peak. So while they will miss JVR on the front end. Schenn will help them in some areas. Expect some ups and downs. But you'll have that with Carle, Grossmann, Coburn, and Meszaros also. And I'm sure Holmgren has some more moves up his sleeve. - MJL
There's obvious risk for both sides, JvR with his hips and alleged yoga healing methods, as well as LSchenn and his majority perceived lower talent ceiling. I think with Schenn you get a 22 year old defensive defenseman that's earned the nickname the human eraser. That's got to tell you something, lead all defenseman in hits. Pronger has to be a factor too, thats a hell of a person to be learning under. With JvR you could get a 1st line U.S. Olympic LWer, just a stud power forward; or you could get anywhere from a Rick Nash-Dustin Penner type. JvR's willingness to go to the net or into "BEAST MODE" seems to be lacking. I'm curious to see LSchenn's fire, and if it's anything like his brothers I think we got a gamer. Carle stays, no doubt. Thats a nice 6 deep D core. Hopefully we won't have to rely on LSchenn to move the puck, I can imagine he'd be a scapegoat at times, but he's going to an exponentially better team. Save a little over a half a million and address a need in a young developing D-man. Every little bit counts.
In 3 years, this trade will be open for a better judgement. Right now, its a risk for both sides. I like it though.
Down Goes Brown @DownGoesBrown I look forward to the five-minute highlight video when Schenn returns to Toronto, which I assume will be Malkin hit 900 consecutive times.
I actually wouldn't mind having a copy of that vid.
what's his offensive ability like? does he have the potential to be a viable threat from the point? in your opinion of course. I'd like to get some leafs fan perspective on this. - JoeRussomanno
I see him, on an offensive team, at his peak(like, maybe one season), somewhere around 35 points.
He's working on his shot, it's either accurate, or it's hard... it's rarely both.
His offensive numbers will come mainly from his first pass... he's got the ability to place the puck right infront of a streaking forward from the d-zone.
If he can regain, and improve upon, his speed... he's a decent puck mover as well.
But what is most important about him is his character, his defensive play, and his physicality. He's captain and fan-favourite material. IMO.
There's obvious risk for both sides, JvR with his hips and alleged yoga healing methods, as well as LSchenn and his majority perceived lower talent ceiling. I think with Schenn you get a 22 year old defensive defenseman that's earned the nickname the human eraser. That's got to tell you something, lead all defenseman in hits. Pronger has to be a factor too, thats a hell of a person to be learning under. With JvR you could get a 1st line U.S. Olympic LWer, just a stud power forward; or you could get anywhere from a Rick Nash-Dustin Penner type. JvR's willingness to go to the net or into "BEAST MODE" seems to be lacking. I'm curious to see LSchenn's fire, and if it's anything like his brothers I think we got a gamer. Carle stays, no doubt. Thats a nice 6 deep D core. Hopefully we won't have to rely on LSchenn to move the puck, I can imagine he'd be a scapegoat at times, but he's going to an exponentially better team. Save a little over a half a million and address a need in a young developing D-man. Every little bit counts.
In 3 years, this trade will be open for a better judgement. Right now, its a risk for both sides. I like it though. - GirouxForTheShow
I don't know how much you can expect Pronger to be around the team.
Location: me bitter? F-no i think it's hilarious Joined: 12.14.2011
Jun 23 @ 9:22 PM ET
I see him, on an offensive team, at his peak(like, maybe one season), somewhere around 35 points.
He's working on his shot, it's either accurate, or it's hard... it's rarely both.
His offensive numbers will come mainly from his first pass... he's got the ability to place the puck right infront of a streaking forward from the d-zone.
If he can regain, and improve upon, his speed... he's a decent puck mover as well.
But what is most important about him is his character, his defensive play, and his physicality. He's captain and fan-favourite material. IMO. - Feeling Glucky?
Down Goes Brown @DownGoesBrown I look forward to the five-minute highlight video when Schenn returns to Toronto, which I assume will be Malkin hit 900 consecutive times.
I actually wouldn't mind having a copy of that vid. - BringBack25
I would like to see them add a top scoring line player. And a gritty 2 way physical forward capable of chipping in 15 goals or so. I think that would round out the Forward lineup. I fully expect another big move. - MJL
You know what though? It really sucks to see JVR go. It does. I think he'll be solid. But I can't help thinking Schenn is what we needed. A stay at home, physical, shot blocking, solid Dman with potential to be a top end guy as well as possessing some nice offensive upside.
Also- playing with his bro might make him more relaxed and might have him develop faster? Hey...it could happen.
I think he needed a change of scenery too. I wish they woulda got a pick though. I really hope Luke gels here. He could be a HUGE addition.
Thanks for getting back, sounds good to me! - JoeRussomanno
Now, here's the issue: His speed really, really sucked this year. He spent all summer bulking up, didn't focus on his skating, and wound up losing all his speed... and he wasn't fast to begin with. He saw less and less ice time, got paired with another young d-man that left him out to dry many nights, and completely lost his confidence.
Hopefully, he'll rebound... he needs to focus first on getting his skating back in a big way, and needs the coach to show some confidence in him... If he starts off poorly again... it won't go too well for him. I think this is the reason Toronto decided it was time to cut the cord. I would have loved to keep him, and see what he could do in a defensive system(Wilson's run-and-gun really exposed his lack of speed), and with our new skating coach... but we won't get to see now.
The other thing to note: when he's struggling defensively, he'll try harder offensively... and that's not really a good thing.
You know what though? It really sucks to see JVR go. It does. I think he'll be solid. But I can't help thinking Schenn is what we needed. A stay at home, physical, shot blocking, solid Dman with potential to be a top end guy as well as possessing some nice offensive upside.
Also- playing with his bro might make him more relaxed and might have him develop faster? Hey...it could happen.
I think he needed a change of scenery too. I wish they woulda got a pick though. I really hope Luke gels here. He could be a HUGE addition. - Giroux_Is_God
I think the trade's gonna be great for both teams, but I hate it.
You know what though? It really sucks to see JVR go. It does. I think he'll be solid. But I can't help thinking Schenn is what we needed. A stay at home, physical, shot blocking, solid Dman with potential to be a top end guy as well as possessing some nice offensive upside.
Also- playing with his bro might make him more relaxed and might have him develop faster? Hey...it could happen.
I think he needed a change of scenery too. I wish they woulda got a pick though. I really hope Luke gels here. He could be a HUGE addition. - Giroux_Is_God
If they could have gotten a 2nd as well, they would have. I love when people say that like Homer was like oh nah don't worry about the 2nd you can keep it.
Location: "All train compartments smell vaguely of sh*t. It gets so you don't mind it" Joined: 12.26.2006
Jun 23 @ 9:31 PM ET
Now, here's the issue: His speed really, really sucked this year. He spent all summer bulking up, didn't focus on his skating, and wound up losing all his speed... and he wasn't fast to begin with. He saw less and less ice time, got paired with another young d-man that left him out to dry many nights, and completely lost his confidence.
Hopefully, he'll rebound... he needs to focus first on getting his skating back in a big way, and needs the coach to show some confidence in him... If he starts off poorly again... it won't go too well for him. I think this is the reason Toronto decided it was time to cut the cord. I would have loved to keep him, and see what he could do in a defensive system(Wilson's run-and-gun really exposed his lack of speed), and with our new skating coach... but we won't get to see now.
The other thing to note: when he's struggling defensively, he'll try harder offensively... and that's not really a good thing. - Feeling Glucky?
this has been the dilemma for the last couple of yrs and we play a skating game, so I hope he's concentrating on that.
