Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Carle's Worth, Prospect Camp

First



I don't think Wideman's deal set the bar, as I think $5 million was about the rate Carle was worth, Wideman's deal just confirmed it, they, (flyers), were probably looking at retaining him for the same $ as Coburn, ($4.5 mill), now yeah, he could get more with so little D men available & an inflated cap boost.

Suter at $7 million a year is an overpayment, (if he gets that), he won't be glued to Weber anymore when he moves on.

Holy crap, 6 million. Slighltly above north of an average player.

I think 5 million is too much. I still think Coby and Timmo can assume his "role" in moving the puck.

Does this mean Weber is going to get 20 million per season?c( sarcasm)

Silly season it is.

Great read.

I wonder if this is a case where the Flyers do the best they can to put together whatever they can for opening night. They know that top players and opportunities will open up for a deal about 10 weeks into the season. Perhaps, the Flyers need to think about a $7m plus Dman by Christmas time. Those kind of moves can be easier as other teams become more realistic about their post season prospects. On the other hand, Wideman type contracts limit your flexibility to do something substantial. I am a big fan of Holmgren's boldness. I believe he will strike a very sharp note. He may shake up the D the way he transformed the front line skaters last summer.

Holy crap, 6 million. Slighltly above north of an average player.

I think 5 million is too much. I still think Coby and Timmo can assume his "role" in moving the puck.

Does this mean Weber is going to get 20 million per season?c( sarcasm)

Silly season it is.
- Daman

Players who are already in the lineup, even if Carle is re-signed. Can't assume Carle's role if he's not.

Great read.

I wonder if this is a case where the Flyers do the best they can to put together whatever they can for opening night. They know that top players and opportunities will open up for a deal about 10 weeks into the season. Perhaps, the Flyers need to think about a $7m plus Dman by Christmas time. Those kind of moves can be easier as other teams become more realistic about their post season prospects. On the other hand, Wideman type contracts limit your flexibility to do something substantial. I am a big fan of Holmgren's boldness. I believe he will strike a very sharp note. He may shake up the D the way he transformed the front line skaters last summer.
- spatso

7M plus D men aren't available at Christmas time.

I would rather start the season with 5-6 in cap space and send out this group

Grossman-Coburn
Timonen-Schenn
Bourdon-Meszaros
Lilja-Gus

Not a bad group

Can't pay Carle 6 mill, Make a big move on Parise or sign Doan with that money and look at adding a dman later in the year when the Pronger money could be used.

That group of 8 is good enough for now.

I would rather start the season with 5-6 in cap space and send out this group

Grossman-Coburn
Timonen-Schenn
Bourdon-Meszaros
Lilja-Gus

Not a bad group

Can't pay Carle 6 mill, Make a big move on Parise or sign Doan with that money and look at adding a dman later in the year when the Pronger money could be used.

That group of 8 is good enough for now.
- bhigh21

If the Flyers sign Parise, there won't be much money to add a D man later. Flyers will be deep into LTIR. And won't be banking Cap space.

I would rather start the season with 5-6 in cap space and send out this group

Grossman-Coburn
Timonen-Schenn
Bourdon-Meszaros
Lilja-Gus

Not a bad group

Can't pay Carle 6 mill, Make a big move on Parise or sign Doan with that money and look at adding a dman later in the year when the Pronger money could be used.

That group of 8 is good enough for now.
- bhigh21

Yea that isn't bad. Though it'll be like last year when guys were asked to do things they didnt normally do, more ice time, etc. The beauty of having Carle is that everyone can play the appropriate amount of minutes and focus on their strengths while not having to try to do too much.

Having said that I don't think they should break the bank for Carle, certainly not 6M when next year the big fish could possibly be had. I would kick the tires on Parise, but theres just noway in my opinion because he respects Lou too much, but maybe Lou would tell him do whats best for you, doubt it though.

That brings us into bottom 6 forward category. Here I would go for Prust and Dom Moore, maybe Jamie McClement. Was on the Gaustad wagon but as discussed earlier hell claim a pretty penny for a specialized 3rd line role when he could be part of some other teams bigger plans.

Gotta love wifi at 30k feet.... I can read bil'sl great blogs and all these great posts on an airplane.....what a country!!!

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Carle's Worth, Prospect Camp
- bmeltzer

Bill,

If the rumors were true that the Flyers and Carle had a handshake agreement in place before the Wideman JOKE of a contract, could we not blame the Flyers poor cap management on this new revelation?

What I mean is, the reason a handshake agreement was in place, if the rumors were true, was because the Flyers didn't have the cap space available to sign Carle to a contract until July 1st when the new, higher cap was set into play.

If my speculation is true, the Flyers once again screwed the pooch when it comes to cap management.

Players who are already in the lineup, even if Carle is re-signed. Can't assume Carle's role if he's not.
- MJL

I think can't is a word that athletes shouldnt assume. Coburn is faster and stronger - why not?


I think there is too much drama about Carle. M

Bill,

If the rumors were true that the Flyers and Carle had a handshake agreement in place before the Wideman JOKE of a contract, could we not blame the Flyers poor cap management on this new revelation?

What I mean is, the reason a handshake agreement was in place, if the rumors were true, was because the Flyers didn't have the cap space available to sign Carle to a contract until July 1st when the new, higher cap was set into play.

If my speculation is true, the Flyers once again screwed the pooch when it comes to cap management.



- ggunky

I don't think you can look at it that way. Do you want to have top players, and a top team? Then these are the Cap issues your going to have. Do you want to add a player like Grossmann, and keep him? Re-sign a player like Coburn. While having other top players such as Timonen and Briere on the team. Then issues such as tagging space are going to be there year after year. Unless your a team that doesn't spend to the Cap every year. So pick your poison. Do you want the Flyers to spend money, or not. This has nothing to do with poor Cap management.

I would rather start the season with 5-6 in cap space and send out this group

Grossman-Coburn
Timonen-Schenn
Bourdon-Meszaros
Lilja-Gus

Not a bad group

Can't pay Carle 6 mill, Make a big move on Parise or sign Doan with that money and look at adding a dman later in the year when the Pronger money could be used.

That group of 8 is good enough for now.
- bhigh21

That group isn't the healthiest group in the league ...keep in mind the 2-3 lengthy injuries that are bound to happen and that group gets ugly quick.

I think can't is a word that athletes shouldnt assume. Coburn is faster and stronger - why not?


I think there is too much drama about Carle. M
- Daman

Why not, because your short a player. Coburn can't move the puck like Carle does. Timonen is already a puck mover in the lineup. If they don't add another defenseman or re-sign Carle, Meszaros should get more opportunity offensively such as on the PP.

At one certain point, they'll need to resign G for big money.
If he wants the big bucks, please, let Carle go.
I'm sorry, but his numbers are affected by the Flyers offensive power. Otherwise he's nothing special. I remmember your "other grass is greener" remark.
It's indeed the defense that wins the cup, but it's usually the team defense...

At one certain point, they'll need to resign G for big money.
If he wants the big bucks, please, let Carle go.
I'm sorry, but his numbers are affected by the Flyers offensive power. Otherwise he's nothing special. I remmember your "other grass is greener" remark.
It's indeed the defense that wins the cup, but it's usually the team defense...
- Ondrej F

Don't the players supplying the offense make up the offensive power?

I don't think you can look at it that way. Do you want to have top players, and a top team? Then these are the Cap issues your going to have. Do you want to add a player like Grossmann, and keep him? Re-sign a player like Coburn. While having other top players such as Timonen and Briere on the team. Then issues such as tagging space are going to be there year after year. Unless your a team that doesn't spend to the Cap every year. So pick your poison. Do you want the Flyers to spend money, or not. This has nothing to do with poor Cap management.
- MJL

The Flyers have displayed poor cap management since the day the cap went into effect.

This is just another example of that.

The Flyers have displayed poor cap management since the day the cap went into effect.

This is just another example of that.
- ggunky

Every top team is going to have to make some moves at some point due to Cap issues. That's a fact of life in a Cap world. The Flyers put a quality team on the ice every year.

Not being able to re-sign Carle before July 1, is not an example of poor Cap management.

I would rather start the season with 5-6 in cap space and send out this group

Grossman-Coburn
Timonen-Schenn
Bourdon-Meszaros
Lilja-Gus

Not a bad group

Can't pay Carle 6 mill, Make a big move on Parise or sign Doan with that money and look at adding a dman later in the year when the Pronger money could be used.

That group of 8 is good enough for now.
- bhigh21

I agree, to an extent. If Doan can be had for 4 or less, 3 or 4 years, i would love it

Every top team is going to have to make some moves at some point due to Cap issues. That's a fact of life in a Cap world. The Flyers put a quality team on the ice every year.
- MJL

I agree with the quality team comment, but poor management of the cap can make or break your team.

The Shelley and walker contracts really hurt now. One could make an arguement that their contracts prevented the Flyers from signing Carle to a cap friendly number.

I agree with the quality team comment, but poor management of the cap can make or break your team.

The Shelley and walker contracts really hurt now. One could make an arguement that their contracts prevented the Flyers from signing Carle to a cap friendly number.
- ggunky

No, even without Shelley and Walker, the Flyers wouldn't have been able to re-sign Carle at this point. Neither Shelley nor Walker has prevented the Flyers from doing anything.

Don't the players supplying the offense make up the offensive power?
- MJL

Not necessarily

Why not, because your short a player. Coburn can't move the puck like Carle does. Timonen is already a puck mover in the lineup. If they don't add another defenseman or re-sign Carle, Meszaros should get more opportunity offensively such as on the PP.
- MJL

Says you. I say the Flyers will be able complete a pass even though mjl doesnt think so. So we disagree.

No, even without Shelley and Walker, the Flyers wouldn't have been able to re-sign Carle at this point. Neither Shelley nor Walker has prevented the Flyers from doing anything.
- MJL

Oh, having Shelley's 1.1 mil and Walker's 1.7 mil of the Flyers cap wouldn't have been enough to get Carle for the rumored 4.75 cap hit?